Boxes for outside lights and cameras? In walls or soffit?

[Innovate1]

What's the best box size for outside lights/cameras? And should I put them in the soffit or wall? I recall when I did some of this before putting them in the soffit for basic flood lights limited the fixture selection a little - seemed the preferred mounting was on a vertical wall.

Keeping them high or in the soffit protects them from weather but this building has 14' walls so soffit mounting will be higher than desirable. Have considered putting lights on the gable in in the wall and putting a box in the corner soffit with a conduit into the attic to allow easy addition of something later.

 

[Zeke]

2 questions and the first is your choice. I've heard issues about bird nesting but IDK your situation.

As for the box size I think a single gang is sufficient and I will use a deep box when I can. I like room in there.

 

[Innovate1]

Some places I have seen comments the box needs to be weather rated. As I recall I used standard metal boxes for typical in wall use (not weather rated) when I did the house some time ago. Also seen comments to use octagon or 4" round fixture box. I will have a block around this (flat surface, no lap siding slope or ridges) so the fixture can seal against that. If the box is roughly the size of the round fixture mounting then sealing will be less effective. Think most lights come with slotted hardware to fit various boxes. Is using a simple deep single gang box like used for a duplex receptacle going to limit my choices of fixture or mounting down the road? I am thinking simple 2 bulb floods now but may do something else later. This is for wall mounting.

 

[Zeke]

There are all kinds of deep round boxes. 4" is used way more than 3" although, as you said, most fixtures have provisions for both.

There are rings to go from round to rectangular, but not so much vice versa.

 

[ard]

I like surface mounted boxes for exterior. Then all I have is a conduit stub through the building envelope.

The compulsion to have ‘special’ boxes, with Integrated flashing and blah blah seems to be a poor solution. Over my years doing electric, exterior devices ALWAYS need replacing and upgrading..10, 20, 30 years later. Trying to find special covers on and old box is usually impossible. And once the tabs, bits and bobs on a plastic box fail- for one of these special ‘flashed in place’ boxes fails, you are faced with a much larger repair.

The other issue is water, and how water and air move. In exposed locations, any air leak will turn into moisture leak. Not a ‘there’s water in the strucuytre’ but in 15 years it may be “wow, look at all that dry rot around that outlet box here on the inside”. A 1/2” pvc conduit stub, well caulked, will bear up forever.

Yes, a surface mount is marginally more visible. But you’ve got a camera next to it! And even if it is just a receptacle, it ain’t no big deal.

15 years from me you will agree.


My 2 cents.

 

[Innovate1]

You make some good points - I agree that surface mounted boxes are much easier to seal. But the recessed look much better IMHO. I try to tuck them under the eaves for high stuff but I have a tall building now so that doesn't work for much.

For the flood light fixtures I did some measuring on an existing with octagon box... The box is 3.5" across the flats and 4.2 over the rounded corners. The light fixture base is also 4.2 so doesn't cover the hole in the material around it (but it's in the soffit so is ok) but won't work for a wall mount).

A PVC outlet box is 3.65 in the long direction but 4.2 diagonally so it won't work either. I know stamped metal boxes are usually smaller but don't have one handy to check. I am thinking I should try to have the fixture base seal against the material around the box to get a decent seal. Could cut a large washer (out of flashing?) that is slightly bigger than the fixture and use that with a little caulk to enlarge the base of the fixture. Seems like there should be an off the shelf solution.

 

[Zeke]

If that is the case, you should look into a 3 1/4 round (octagon) box with tabs. Most fixtures can be mounted to a crossbar which you can trim to fit under the base.

I can agree with with surface mounted but aesthetics sometimes rule out. Done well, a flush box with a good seal will serve for many years. Plastic won't rust and I'm sure you can change over any screws that get nasty over time. Even go from the 8/32 to a 10 size self tap.

 

[Innovate1]

Picked up a couple small octagon boxes (about 3") and 1" thick. Kind of small but a single wire in and there is typically some room under the fixture base. A knockout in the back for a snap in cable grip. Leaves some room for the cutout in the surrounding material and still have plenty of coverage by the fixture base.

 

[The FIB]

I used the round aluminum weather proof boxes, with a flat weather proof, flat, blank cover. I mounted the cameras to the cover and screwed the cover to the boxes. Nice neat look with no exposed wires.

 

[Innovate1]

Am thinking I will use the small octagon boxes for the wall lights and just put blocking behind the corner soffits. If I go with cameras some have pig tails that won't fit into a box. The one I have has about an 18" lead to its connectors and would need a 1" conduit to fit. If I just put blocking I can drill a hole for the wires and just mount through the soffit panel into the blocking. I am thinking if I put a board 1" above the soffit I could cut in a 1" deep electrical box for a light and nearby I could shim down to the soffit level for a camera. That way either option is available. Just need to keep notes on where the blocking is. Might also want to allow for soffit mount of an IR illuminator nearby to keep the bugs away from the camera.

 

[Innovate1]

So I mounted the 3.5" octagon boxes sticking out 1" (thickness of siding block). Then the siding people cut the holes in the blocks with a 4" hole saw.

I measured a floodlight fixture base I had. About 4.25" outside so it is SLIGHTLY bigger than the hole but disappointing since I took extra effort to get a good coverage.

Cutouts for the outside outlet boxes are pretty loose too. Not sure the waterproof covers will seal on the outside. Need to check tomorrow but pretty sure it isn't going to work.

 

[Innovate1]

They overlap but very little extra. If I can't get the blocks replaced I may try to build in the inside edge a little with some stiff caulk or something. Maybe add some caulk to the gasket when I install although that is an issue when taking it apart for any service.

 

[grounded-b]

Just put some backer in there and caulk between the box and the blocks.

 

[like2wheel]

Do cameras need boxes?
Haven't installed any yet, but was planning on mounting it to the corner post, & running the cat 6 thru the soffit with a grommet

 

[Jim greengo]

I'm about 1/2 way through the process of wiring the son in laws new garage and installing service.
I've got 4 round cut in boxes to install for 3 outside lights and a camera .
I prefer cut in boxes for exterior stuff myself,including outlets.

 

[Innovate1]

Do cameras need boxes?
Haven't installed any yet, but was planning on mounting it to the corner post, & running the cat 6 thru the soffit with a grommet

No. It's low voltage so no box needed. It is only for ease of mounting, replacement, and such like. I ended up going with no box for the cameras. Will just drill through the siding. I like to tuck them under the roof overhang for some weather protection but with my high walls I should mount them lower.