Brake bleeding systems/tools

[bmwpower]

Trying to decide which system to get. I'm tired of having the wife come out and pump the brake pedal all night long. Plus, sometimes I don't feel like I get the best pedal feel compared to when the dealer bleeds the brakes (might be psychological).

What are the pros/cons of each system? I'm not sure I like the fact that I have to fill the pressure based system with new fluid because that will evetually involve cleaning the residual fluid out, etc. I'm thinking the vacuum system would work better, but I've never used one to bleed the brakes. Seems like sucking stuff out might be better than pushing it out, no? The pressure system requires adapters to hook to different master cylinders, etc. The vaccum based system just needs to hook to the bleeder valve. The vacuum system just seems quicker to me.

I know quite a few people have the Motive bleeder. I don't think I've seen anyone with the Vacula setup. Maybe there is a reason.

Thoughts?


Vacuum based system

Vacula
http://usa.vacula.com/newsite/produkter/products.php?product_id=10

Pressure based system

Motive
http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

 

[wrenchr]

I have used the vacuum one's with great result's. They are cheaper in the price compared to the pressure bleeder's. How much are you going to be using these tools? That will make up your mind.

 

[bmwpower]

I have used the vacuum one's with great result's. They are cheaper in the price compared to the pressure bleeder's. How much are you going to be using these tools? That will make up your mind.

2 daily drivers + several family members cars on occassion + side jobs + project cars = probably enough to justify some kind of tool to help speed this job up.

If it means I won't have to have the wife or a buddy over to help bleeding, it will be worth it. I hate having to rely on other people for anything - even if they are reliable.

 

[wrenchr]

2 daily drivers + several family members cars on occassion + side jobs + project cars = probably enough to justify some kind of tool to help speed this job up.

Yah you can find the one man bleeder's at auto part store's.
I think Lisle make's aa nice one.

 

[bobs409]

I installed speed bleeders on my cars. I hate asking others for help, like doing everything myself.

 

[SteveU]

I have the motive & like it. Could not get a good firm pedal on the wife's car using a silverline vacuum pump but did it no problem with this. I paid more because I got the one with all the adapters since I never know what I'm going to be working on next but using the universal adapter on the wife's car I didn't have any problem or make any mess doing it. Sure beats crawling under the car multiple times per wheel to bleed then out to empty the 4 oz bottle & check fluid level then back under to bleed etc. Whenever I bleed the brakes I just keep going until I get all new fluid thru the system rather than stop when the air is out & it makes it easy to do this.

 

[Scott]

I have a Motive as well, works great...makes it almost fun. The downside is as you mentioned, having to clean it out everytime, not bad IMO.

 

[wrenchr]

I have a Motive as well, works great...makes it almost fun. The downside is as you mentioned, having to clean it out everytime, not bad IMO.

How long does it take with this setup?

 

[PAToyota]

Another vote for the Motive - I love mine!

 

[Major Ramifications]

How does the Motive work? It looks like it puts pressurized fluid in through the top of the master cylinder. So then you go to each wheel and bleed each one individually?

 

[ImportTuner]

I have the MityVac vacuum brake bleeder which operates off my compressor; been using it for the last 2 years and it works great ....

 

[bmwpower]

For the vacuum systems, I would assume you can use the vacuum for other things, right? There have been several occassions when I wish I had a vacuum to:

- **** out the old fluid in the brake reservoir
- **** out the old ATF in my power steering system
- **** out the old gear fluid from my front differential (no drain plug)
...etc.

Anyone else use their vacuum system like this?

 

[bmwpower]

I have the MityVac vacuum brake bleeder which operates off my compressor; been using it for the last 2 years and it works great ....

ImportTuner,
Do you get a good deal of vacuum out of this thing? Would it be able to **** of thick gear fluid?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Another vote for the Motive. I keep a couple Jiffy peanut butter jars around. One lid has a hose in it. It's easy to swap out a full jar for an empty one if needed. I bought a second adapter for a GM when I needed it.

 

[PAToyota]

How does the Motive work? It looks like it puts pressurized fluid in through the top of the master cylinder. So then you go to each wheel and bleed each one individually?

Exactly!

 

[bluesman2a]

I have speed bleeders in all mine... Plus there is a super simple tool that you can make yourself in about 10 minutes, generally free/cheap.

Essentially just take a piece of flat steel, a rubber gasket (found mine in the HELP section of the auto-parts store) drill and tap for an air compressor nozzle. Clamp it down to the reservoir on your MC. I've also seen folks with plastic reservoirs just put the fitting into a spare reservior-top too.

Set your regulator for 3-5PSI. Connect a hose so you can apply the pressure. You are ready to bleed.

Then go down to the caliper and crack it, let the fluid flow, no need to pump the pedal, just keep the reservoir(s) full.

 

[supersmile]

I've been using a MityVac (MIT7201) Fluid Evacuator Plus along with the brake bleeding attachment they make for it. Works great on my race car; takes less than 10 minutes to bleed the brakes and clutch including putting everything away afterward. A nice feature is being able to **** the old brake fluid from the master cylinders before starting the bleeding procedure. Its also good for sucking oil out but a little slow; OTOH my car has a dry sump and its a lot cleaner to feed the hose into all the varies pipes rather than disassembling them. So far its been working fine with no problems.

I bought it from Tooltopia.com and I think the two pieces ran around $75.

 

[kartracer55]

Pressure bleeders are tops. Downside is, as you said, they need to be cleaned and filled and maintained, however they do yield the best results.

At work we have one, however rarely use it, we just 2 man bleed everything and as long as you are in sync, you wont have a problem. Many people fail to let the system "gravity bleed" before starting a 2 man bleed and they get frustrated with doing it manually and quit. At home I 2 man bleed, however I also have a little lisle plastic cup bleeder thing. I don't think it was more than 10$ or so and it works pretty well when I'm Solo.

 

[dxdexter]

Trying to decide which system to get. I'm tired of having the wife come out and pump the brake pedal all night long. Plus, sometimes I don't feel like I get the best pedal feel compared to when the dealer bleeds the brakes (might be psychological).

Unless I was doing a lot of brake work, I would continue to use the wifes foot.

Sounds to me that your looking for an excuse to get some new toys. Sounds good to me.

 

[ImportTuner]

ImportTuner,
Do you get a good deal of vacuum out of this thing? Would it be able to **** of thick gear fluid?

There is quite a bit of vacuum, but I have never used the Brake Bleeder for anything other than brakes ...

 

[bmwpower]

Unless I was doing a lot of brake work, I would continue to use the wifes foot.

Sounds to me that your looking for an excuse to get some new toys. Sounds good to me.

Trying to get the wife to follow instructions is bad enough. Having to hear her complain while she's up in the car on the lift @ 12am is a whole 'nother story.

I can't tell you how many times I opened the bleeder when I thought she had her foot on the brake.

 

[bmwpower]

Jim,
Why is a pressure bleeder better? Do they push the fluid out more than a vacuum bleeder would pull it out?

What do you mean by gravity bleed?

Pressure bleeders are tops. Downside is, as you said, they need to be cleaned and filled and maintained, however they do yield the best results.

At work we have one, however rarely use it, we just 2 man bleed everything and as long as you are in sync, you wont have a problem. Many people fail to let the system "gravity bleed" before starting a 2 man bleed and they get frustrated with doing it manually and quit. At home I 2 man bleed, however I also have a little lisle plastic cup bleeder thing. I don't think it was more than 10$ or so and it works pretty well when I'm Solo.

 

[wrenchr]

Trying to get the wife to follow instructions is bad enough. Having to hear her complain while she's up in the car on the lift @ 12am is a whole 'nother story.

I can't tell you how many times I opened the bleeder when I thought she had her foot on the brake.

When I'm doing brake's I will have a buddy over or my brother. And some BEER!!!

 

[MAD]

I made a pressure bleeder like the Motive bleeder from a cheap garden sprayer, master cylinder cap, clear tubing, and some brass fittings from the plumbing section of Home depot. I bet if you are careful not to let the master cylinder go dry, you could even use this type of pressure bleeder with no fluid in the tank and use only air pressure to force the fluid out. I have not tried that though, I am not that concerned about the clean up.

I also have used the bleeder attachment that comes with the Mighty Vac pump. I have found it helpful to put a little grease around the threads of the bleeders so you are not seeing air bubbles that are sneaking in around the threads when using this type of vacuum bleeder.

 

[dxdexter]

What do you mean by gravity bleed?

Since the master cylinder is higher than the calipers or wheel cylinders the fluid will naturally migrate throughout the lines and out an open bleeder and thus expelling air in the process. The master cylinder cover must be off and kept topped off.
This process can be seen when you crack a line and the fluid continues to flow.

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

 

[SteveU]

There have been several occassions when I wish I had a vacuum to:

- **** out the old fluid in the brake reservoir
- **** out the old ATF in my power steering system
- **** out the old gear fluid from my front differential (no drain plug)

I use hand held plastic kerosene transfer pumps which have maybe 3/8" tube & an accordian looking sqeeze bulb for this type thing. For the rear differential on my truck which also has no drain plug I put a piece of rubber hose on the end of it & stick that down the diff fill hole to pump it out, works good.

 

[Senorpablo]

Bleeding with the Motive is completely painless. Fill with brake fluid, attach cap, seal lid, pressurize, and bleed.

In my experience with a vacuum system, you must add sealant or teflon tape at the bleeder screws, otherwise air ***** past the threads. I've only used the Mighty-vac hand pump, which isn't continuous vacuum. Perhaps with the continuous vacuum systems, air past the bleeder isn't an issue.

 

[GDA]

Another Motive user here.

 

[MAD]

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

I knew I wasn’t the only cheap ******* out there to make my own. I used a long coupling nut on the inside of the cap with the theory that extending the fill tube a little into the master cylinder would leave a little air space at the top and not fill it right to the rim. I don’t remember if that really worked to keep from the reservoir to the top. I didn’t put a gauge on mine either. Other than that it is the same as the one in the link. It works great.

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

I knew I wasn’t the only cheap ******* out there to make my own. I used a long coupling nut on the inside of the cap with the theory that extending the fill tube a little into the master cylinder would leave a little air space at the top and not fill it right to the rim. I don’t remember if that really worked to keep from the reservoir to the top. I didn’t put a gauge on mine either. Other than that it is the same as the one in the link. It works great.

Yeah i made one and gave it way, real cheap to make, but i have a calvan pressure bleeder now , I perfer pressure over vacuum...

 

[Uncle Buck]

So other than the truck, or buying online does anyone know of a store that might carry these?

 

[eschoendorff]

Pressure bleeders are tops. Downside is, as you said, they need to be cleaned and filled and maintained, however they do yield the best results.

At work we have one, however rarely use it, we just 2 man bleed everything and as long as you are in sync, you wont have a problem. Many people fail to let the system "gravity bleed" before starting a 2 man bleed and they get frustrated with doing it manually and quit. At home I 2 man bleed, however I also have a little lisle plastic cup bleeder thing. I don't think it was more than 10$ or so and it works pretty well when I'm Solo.

What do you mean "gravity bleed" before the 2 man bleed?

 

[PAToyota]

So other than the truck, or buying online does anyone know of a store that might carry these?

http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...sults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=700+115

 

[bmwpower]

http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

Yea, I've already made one of those. I couldn't find the size/shape tank they used, so I had to go with what Home Depot had which was not ideal - it's tall and narrow. It falls over easy.

Oh and the pump failed, too.

I was looking for something a little nicer with appropriate adapter and such.

 

[-lecroix-]

What do you mean "gravity bleed" before the 2 man bleed?

fill reservoir ... crack bleed screws ... run rubber hoses from cracked bleeder screws down into containers to catch purged fluid ... open beer

IMPORTANT: do this on a Friday evening ... let it sit all night .. check on Saturday morning. for some reason Friday & Saturdays work best ... i think it's the beer.

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

What do you mean "gravity bleed" before the 2 man bleed?

It's letting the fluid just bleed out of the bleeder naturally, since the master cylinder is up high, hence the name....

 

[Fast Orange]

I've put speed bleeders on all my personal vehicles,and if they're available,I use them on any other brake jobs I do.For the few $ they cost,they make bleeding a lot easier when you're working alone.

 

[bmwpower]

It's letting the fluid just bleed out of the bleeder naturally, since the master cylinder is up high, hence the name....

Doesn't that let air into the system? The only way this would work is if the lid to the reservoir was off. Otherwise, you'd get the "milk jug" effect where as the liquid pours out, air is forced into the system to replace the leaving liquid. Even then, I would doubt it since the system flows so slowly.

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

Doesn't that let air into the system? The only way this would work is if the lid to the reservoir was off. Otherwise, you'd get the "milk jug" effect where as the liquid pours out, air is forced into the system to replace the leaving liquid. Even then, I would doubt it since the system flows so slowly.

It's done with the lid off