illmatyk
Well-known member
I'm not too sure if this is the correct part of the forum to put this but, any body have some tips/tricks in making/bending brake lines/tubing?
brake lines
- Thread starter illmatyk
- Start date
kyrbz
Well-known member
I don't know if it will help you at all, but here's a link to a post on my blog about when I did the brake lines on my BMW Isetta. Hard lines are fairly cheap, so it doesn't hurt to get an extra one to practice bending with.
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/2011/05/isetta-brake-lines.html
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/2011/05/isetta-brake-lines.html
tcsalvage
Well-known member
i personally never owned any brake line bending tools, just used my hands. if your remaking an existing line; cut it off flush at both ends and starting with one end bend to match the bends and angles of the old line giving yourself the extra 1/2 inch for the fitting when you start. i don't like roll line because its hard to straighten just to rebend, so i use straight line and flare unions, then reflare when done.
BD1
Well-known member
i used a RIDGID copper tubing lever handle bender. Worked well.
- Use a tubing bender. Yes, you can do it bare-handed, but it's slow, prone to failure, and you just can't make precise, tight bends.
- 2 - Make a prototype using coat hanger wire first.
- 3 - Make sure you instlal your tube nuts BEFORE you flare then ends!
- 4 - Make sure yout tube nut doesn't get trapped in the middle of the line by a bend. (I've don this more times than I can count -- I install a tube nut, make a bend, then discover the tube nut can't get past the bend to the end of the line.)
- Buy quality tubing. I like Bundyweld myself. There's a lot of crappy tubing out there that splits when you try to flare it.
- Use the proper flare at the end. This means either double-flare (SAE,) or bubble-flare (ISO). Single-flare WILL leak.
- Avoid over-torqueing the tube nuts. For a fresh flare, you don't need a lot of torque to get the fitting to seal.
- When all else fails, send your coat-hanger prototype to Classic Tubing and they will make the line for you.
It will distort and squash the line a bit in the bend. Whether that's acceptable us up to you, but I wouldn't use it. When it comes to brake plumbing, in my opinion, its either perfect, or junk.
I use this bender:
It has a mandrel accommodating various tubing diameters.
For tighter bends less than 90-degrees, I use this:
I got mine from Eastwood, but Harbor Freight has these on clearance right now.
PinkLinc
Well-known member
While we're on the subject of brake lines, does anyone have tips on flaring? I have a Matco double flare tool and I'm having a hard time getting a symetric double flare. It always seems to be pushed out to the side and not centered over the rest of the line. I try to make the cut on the tubing as straight as possible and I always chamfer the edges with a file before flaring. Any thoughts?
914tom
Member
hi,
i use this kind of Tool
it works very well and comes with 2 different Wheels for 4 / 6 / 8 / 10mm Break Lines (yes, im from the old world
).
For those who wonder, only 180° where used to bend so 2 Wheels for 4 Sitzes.
Be shure to cut the Lines with a Pipe cutter, a saw will not make a clean enough cut for flaring.
finaly use a flare Set like this to make proper flares.
no big deal, do like gt40mkii wrote.
TOM
i use this kind of Tool
it works very well and comes with 2 different Wheels for 4 / 6 / 8 / 10mm Break Lines (yes, im from the old world
).For those who wonder, only 180° where used to bend so 2 Wheels for 4 Sitzes.
Be shure to cut the Lines with a Pipe cutter, a saw will not make a clean enough cut for flaring.
finaly use a flare Set like this to make proper flares.
no big deal, do like gt40mkii wrote.
TOM
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
I have one of these benders http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWA910/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Works great. For some bends its a PITA as it only bends one direction, more or less. I used it to bend the rear lines on my e36. I had some spare 4ft universal line to practice bend first, which helped a lot. Over all the job turned out very well, and I am more comfortable bending lines now. Still not a fan, but that will take some practice!
Regarding the line ends, I would go double flare unless you have money for the Mastercool bubble flair kit. I bought a Lisle multi flare kit and it was the biggest POS I have ever used. The bar doesn't sit even, so its hard to even get double flares to seal. The SnapOn that my old shop had did the job perfect, it was milled to much higher tolerances. If you plan to do custom lines a good bit, the Mastercool kit is the WTG.
Also a quality pipe cutter helps. I picked up a ~$30 Ridgid cutter and some stainless rated wheels, they did a far far better job than the ~$7 General I had before. The blades do not walk side to side with the Ridgid, not to mention you can get a higher strength blade so you're less prone to chip the blade and cause related issues. I thought it wasn't a big deal until I used the General a bit, bought the Ridgid, and saw the difference.
Works great. For some bends its a PITA as it only bends one direction, more or less. I used it to bend the rear lines on my e36. I had some spare 4ft universal line to practice bend first, which helped a lot. Over all the job turned out very well, and I am more comfortable bending lines now. Still not a fan, but that will take some practice!
Regarding the line ends, I would go double flare unless you have money for the Mastercool bubble flair kit. I bought a Lisle multi flare kit and it was the biggest POS I have ever used. The bar doesn't sit even, so its hard to even get double flares to seal. The SnapOn that my old shop had did the job perfect, it was milled to much higher tolerances. If you plan to do custom lines a good bit, the Mastercool kit is the WTG.
Also a quality pipe cutter helps. I picked up a ~$30 Ridgid cutter and some stainless rated wheels, they did a far far better job than the ~$7 General I had before. The blades do not walk side to side with the Ridgid, not to mention you can get a higher strength blade so you're less prone to chip the blade and cause related issues. I thought it wasn't a big deal until I used the General a bit, bought the Ridgid, and saw the difference.
Be shure to cut the Lines with a Pipe cutter, a saw will not make a clean enough cut for flaring.
Well, since you brought it up...
If you have a problem with your brake line splitting when you try to flare the end, blame the pipe cutter. The kind pictured above will work-harden the soft metal of the tubing. Then when the flare tool tries to stretch it, the hardened section will split, and as the tubing is further worked by the flaring tool, the split will grow.
When cutting tubing to be flared, I'll grind off 1./16" or so on the grinder before I champfer then end. By doing that, it really doesn't matter how I cut the tubing or how square it is. I could let a beaver gnaw through it for all I care, so long as I can dress and champfer the end with a grinder.
Is not a question of picking between double-flare and bubble. You don't get to choose.
Double-flares are used on SAE fittings, which use imperial measurements (1/2", 5./8", etc...) Bubble flares are used on ISO fittings which use metric measurements.
However, you can run into oddball fittings, especially on cars, that mix the two standards (bubble flares on imperial fittings and double-flared fittings on metric fittings.) Manufacturers mix and match this stuff to keep the wrong parts from being installed on the assembly line (Ford did this on the '93 Cobra R, since the Cobra R got a unique master cylinder.)
So make sure the flare's style is correct for the fitting. Double-flare and bubble are not interchangeable.
djjsr
Well-known member
I've done a lot of them and had best results when the cut end of the tube is perfectly square before doing a double flare. No burr and no chamfer.
If you use a tubing cutter, you're going to have a rolled edge on the outside and a burred edge on the inside. Both can screw up the flare.
Cut it with a cut-off wheel or FINE tooth saw then use a smooth file to square it up. When you look at the end, it should look almost like a polished donut with no distortion. If there's any burr on the inside, it can easily be removed by inserting a drill bit the size of the inside diameter.
If it is not square, the flare will push off to one side. If the cut is rough, it could split when you flare it.
Get a length of new line, cut it up in pieces and practice.
If you use a tubing cutter, you're going to have a rolled edge on the outside and a burred edge on the inside. Both can screw up the flare.
Cut it with a cut-off wheel or FINE tooth saw then use a smooth file to square it up. When you look at the end, it should look almost like a polished donut with no distortion. If there's any burr on the inside, it can easily be removed by inserting a drill bit the size of the inside diameter.
If it is not square, the flare will push off to one side. If the cut is rough, it could split when you flare it.
Get a length of new line, cut it up in pieces and practice.
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RHD 4 LIFE
Well-known member
These work well too!
Spring tubing benders!
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_00977248000P?vName=Tools&sName=View+All&cName=Plumbing+Tools+%26+Pumps&i_cntr=1330472822733
Spring tubing benders!
http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_00977248000P?vName=Tools&sName=View+All&cName=Plumbing+Tools+%26+Pumps&i_cntr=1330472822733
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I have a set of these, they work great.
Thanks, will read through this.
Thanks for these tips! using coat hanger to make a prototype never crossed my mind!
It will distort and squash the line a bit in the bend. Whether that's acceptable us up to you, but I wouldn't use it. When it comes to brake plumbing, in my opinion, its either perfect, or junk.
I use this bender:
It has a mandrel accommodating various tubing diameters.
Where did you get that first bender? I bought one similar to that but it only goes up to 90* bends. I'd like to add another bender that can do more than 90* bends to my tool collection in the future.
Thanks.
Also, anybody have any experience with this kit:
http://www.tooltopia.com/kd-tools-41590.aspx
I'm thinking of ordering this kit as I don't have a flaring tool of my own( currently borrowing from a friend ).
http://www.tooltopia.com/kd-tools-41590.aspx
I'm thinking of ordering this kit as I don't have a flaring tool of my own( currently borrowing from a friend ).
Unearthed
Well-known member
I have a set of these, they work great.
I have these as well. They are awesome.
paranoid56
Well-known member
after using all these cheap flare kits i got real tired of them. ended up buying this one http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html and love it. perfect flare each time. being that they are brake lines i wanted it perfect. i use 3 different benders depending on what i am working on from the ones above to a simple pice of tube to bend coils
kyrbz
Well-known member
I have a similar KD kit I purchased from tooltopia. It worked fine for me. You just need to be sure to clamp the brake tube very tight in the clamping block so that it doesn't slip. I also have the KD tube bender in the kit you linked to. It's nice for larger radius bends, but I also like having a pair of plier style bender for tighter radius bends and bends that are near the *******.
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Attachments
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Aircraft Spruce sells a similar kit. It's VERY nice and if I were making brake lines on a regular basis, I'd have one. As it is, I have a cheap KD-tools kit and I'm very careful. I also practiced a lot when I first got it. Getting the tube end square and grinding it smooth helps a lot.
SiGmA_X
Well-known member
You entirely get to chose if you are making a brake system. You can pick either all SAE or all Bubble. Or mix and match, which I do not think is a good idea. My point was, however, that double is far far cheaper. A decent double flare is <$100 while a decent bubble is ~$350. I am of course well aware they do not interchange, but maybe I should have mentioned that when I said pick one.
sberry
Banned
I also cut with die grinder, it often looks like they might be off center but its usually no big deal. I also usually bend by hand, often copy old lines and if possible for speed connect lines vs making new ends, for routine work often can take up a bit of extra tubing with a bend or 2, not a big deal.
sometoyotaguy
Well-known member
It will distort and squash the line a bit in the bend. Whether that's acceptable us up to you, but I wouldn't use it. When it comes to brake plumbing, in my opinion, its either perfect, or junk.
I use this bender:
It has a mandrel accommodating various tubing diameters.
For tighter bends less than 90-degrees, I use this:
I got mine from Eastwood, but Harbor Freight has these on clearance right now.
Thanks. Toyota likes tight bends, and most benders don't work that well.
I used to work at Lockheed-Martin at their big factory in FtWorth, TX. Every day I'd walk by the area where they bent the tubing for the F4 (Japanese version of the F-16,) the mid-section of the F-22 and later the F-35.
Imagine a huge room full of hand and hydraulic bending tools and jigs, and automated flaring machines, all working with titanium tubing and HUGE bins full of the titanium scrap (which they wouldn't let me rummage through!) I nearly wept with envy when I first saw it.
Imagine a huge room full of hand and hydraulic bending tools and jigs, and automated flaring machines, all working with titanium tubing and HUGE bins full of the titanium scrap (which they wouldn't let me rummage through!) I nearly wept with envy when I first saw it.
Here's a few lines I bent up using the bending tool I posted earlier. It made it a piece of cake.
djjsr
Well-known member
Sorry Nutts, but these are the kind of bends you get when you either use the wrong tool or don't use it properly. I'm sure the lines work just fine but it's certainly not professional in appearance.
Flathead Red
Well-known member
I was like that as well but I took a 1 X 4 and routered a groove slightly smaller than the brake line the length of the board. It makes working brake line so much easier. Also, never bend line with your hands. It can kink and then the fluid will not flow correctly. Remember, it for the brakes.
Red
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Sorry Nutts, but these are the kind of bends you get when you either use the wrong tool or don't use it properly. I'm sure the lines work just fine but it's certainly not professional in appearance.
I'm not sure what you think are wrong with my bends but the lines are where I wanted them.
They stay clear of the manual brake conversion, under the firewall/cowl body seam (factory goes around it and over it) plenty away from the heat of the header. I kept them away from the clutch cable so they weren't in the way of adjusting it or replacing it. I didn't make it tight, so I don't have to fight it if I need to replace the line lock at the track in a short period of time.
It's not a show car but built more for drag racing and cruising, by me. In no way is it a professional job, all the work has been done by me or a few friends, with the exception of machine work.
For tighter bends less than 90-degrees, I use this:
I got mine from Eastwood, but Harbor Freight has these on clearance right now.
I have one of these and I'm ready to give it away. The finish was terrible, and it kinks the end of the tube every time you use it.
sberry
Banned
You figure the fluid knows the difference?
Mine works perfecty. Then again, I got mine from Eastwood, not Harbor Freight.
I figure the consequences of a line failure FAR outweigh the convenience of using the improper tool. If you're going to be ****-retentive, brake plumbing is a great place to start.
sberry
Banned
Thousands of dumb shits put brake lines on every day with less than perfect methods, they do seem to work.
That doesn't make it acceptable to me.