Brazing 101 ,the wonder glue

[jrlp]

So, pretend you broke an ear off the starter mounting boss on a cast iron SBC (this is a common problem), would this be a good way to make the repair? I'm assuming this could not be done with the engine still in the vehicle. What would the process be to repair the block?

I just finished this exact repair. I used 99ni nickle rod and tigged it back up after removing the flux. Unfortunately they only had 1/8" rods, so I had to use way more heat than I would have liked. But it came out perfect. I rebuilt the whole ear as by the time I beveled the broken off piece, nothing would be left. Drilling/tapping 99ni is A PAIN.

 

[Mattlt]

Anyone ever use one of these?

My dad only had an old Lincoln tombstone, never had an oxy/acetylene torch, he always used one of these to braze stuff. He used to fix a lot of different stuff with it around the farm.

I've never really tried using one myself. Are they fairly easy to use? Are they a good substitute to an oxy/acetylene setup?

 

[jrlp]

They're very difficult to use properly. They are in no way a substitute. Oxy/ace provides shielding gas for welding, brazing, etc.. carbon arc torches provide no shielding gas. They really don't have a place now days.. just a relic like electric motor driven generator arc welders.

I have a decent plasma (hypertherm powermax 45)and a top of the line tig(dynasty 200dx), and haven't stopped using my torches. I don't oxy/ace weld anything anymore, but sometimes torch brazing is just the best way. Sometimes tig brazing with ErCuSi (silicon bronze) tig brazing is better.. Sometimes the torch is the best tool for the job, and I'm glad I have it! I haven't cut with a torch recently unless it was just a quick cut and didn't feel like hooking the plasma up at the time. If I had to choose just one machine for the rest of my life, I would probably choose the torch over everything else. But I'd definitely miss tig and plasma!

 

[racingtadpole]

Oxy/ace provides shielding gas for welding, brazing, etc..

Acetylene is a fuel, oxygen is a combustion accelerant. They are burnt to generate heat....

 

[er3456df]

Acetylene is a fuel, oxygen is a combustion accelerant. They are burnt to generate heat....

They're already burnt when they hit the metal. He's right, the flame itself does shield the weld if you're doing it right.

 

[Zeke]

Did I have to scroll through all those redundant pics to read, "Nice job." ??? When will people learn?

I have been brazing for years and I like to braze. One thing I have found is that stitch welding **** joints on thin sheet metal always leaves a pin hole found by a light after the welds are ground. Rather than getting the MIG out and piling on more metal to be ground off, plus having to rework the panel due to warping, I just flow a little braze.

I can file and sand brass without messing up my panel work.

 

[er3456df]

stitch welding **** joints on thin sheet metal

I was wondering about this. I have never seen anyone braze a patch panel, but that doesn't mean it isn't done. I can braze a repair way faster than I can MIG it, so are there any downsides to doing it that way?

 

[Zeke]

I was wondering about this. I have never seen anyone braze a patch panel, but that doesn't mean it isn't done. I can braze a repair way faster than I can MIG it, so are there any downsides to doing it that way?

MY FIL used to braze about all of his body work. Brazing and leading were the norm when he got into the trade just after WWII. Bodyshops got modern when they got a spot welder back then. I don't know if he ever mastered MIG welding.

Now my BIL, his son, is certified as a MIG welder for collision work. It's a requirement. But they don't patch in panels anymore.

To answer your question, I'd prefer to weld as much as I can and then touch up any pin holes with braze. I've heard some painters don't like it, but with the proper primers, I don't see how it would be a problem.

 

[er3456df]

Thanks Zeke.

 

[NASTYZEN]

A bearing seized in my cnc mill a while back and before I could turn the beast off. It ate itself a little......

In the middle of a big rush job non the least.
Brazing to the rescue! But first a little prep, must be clean!
Hand held belt sander will do just fine.

Braze it up with the ol coated brazing rod.

A little spin on the lathe and were done.

Looking at this rather small bearing for what it does and on top of that placed in a non ventilated area. I decided to help it out a little.
So I enlarged ( hacked ) some bigger holes on the side of the head and added some fans. Maybe it'll last a little longer t'ill the next meltdown.

 

[Monkey Milk]

What is with the boi in your name^^^? Isn't that how gay guys spell boy?

Got to love the popo

 

[ChuckP]

Love this thread. Someday I'd like to learn this art. Thanks for the pics Nastyzen

 

[NASTYZEN]

Just before the holidays, I broke the carbide backing plate for my lathe threading tool and couldn't get a new one fast enough to finish the rush job I was doing.
Brazing to the rescue!

First I built up the area that was now missing.

I put a flat on top and bottom and laid it in the tool holder. Then I traced around a new cutter and shaped the backing plate with my die grinder.

Before n after.

Ready to work.

Yeah! I got the job out!

 

[Modifieddriver]

MY FIL used to braze about all of his body work. Brazing and leading were the norm when he got into the trade just after WWII. Bodyshops got modern when they got a spot welder back then. I don't know if he ever mastered MIG welding.

Now my BIL, his son, is certified as a MIG welder for collision work. It's a requirement. But they don't patch in panels anymore.

My dad was in the auto body repair business before WWII. He would NEVER even consider using brass for an auto body repair. I learned to braze in high school shop class, told my dad about it. Within a few weeks of that he bought a torch set and showed me how to oxy-acetylene gas weld. Been with me ever since, and is my preferred method when doing auto body repair. Some call it hammer welding.

I since found out that the wanta'be body men brazed because they couldn't master torch welding. It's a short cut repair on sheet metal and will normally show-up as such a few years down the road.

 

[mrpizza]

Holy **** are you making triclover sanitary fittings? Looks like home brewery size.....

 

[Monkey Milk]

You guys are lucky for cheap gas, just went to get my portable set refilled and they wanted $80 for just the ace. I believe it's a 10cf tank. My friend works there and told me they send all the tanks to the mainland for refill, they don't do it local anymore. Living on an Island, we get jacked for shipping all the time!

 

[Ed ke6bnl]

I have always read that you couldn't braze/fuse stainless. For example you could never think of making a set of stainless headers with an O/A setup.
Is this incorrect info?

I silver soldier Stainless steel all the time

 

[jdsac]

If possible would you post the rod alloys/ brand names you use and the tip size & regulator settings. I think I get it too hot as there isn't a nice pattern such a you have. Thank You!

 

[NASTYZEN]

If possible would you post the rod alloys/ brand names you use and the tip size & regulator settings. I think I get it too hot as there isn't a nice pattern such a you have. Thank You!

I use regular coated rod for the base weld, as it seems to stick to most metals best. Could be the flux is more aggressive? It comes in 1/8'' dia. The bronze is 1/8'' and add on that the flux.
I get mine at my local welding supplier. UTP,Utectic and Aladin are some of the most popular brands.
The uncoated rod I use is called 'low fuming bronze'. The flux in this case comes from my in line fluxer unit. It comes in liquid form and is picked up by the Acetylene as it goes through the fluxer. then exits the torch and colors the flame greenish.

As far as settings....well, I would say it's more technique than settings.
Use a slightly carburizing flame, rather than Oxidizing. Once the base metal is hot enough for the bronze to flow. I hold my flame at about 5 to 15 deg. so as to not apply to much heat and remove the flame after I add braze. Sort of heat dab,move away, heat dab and so on.
You don't want to hear any tttssss sounds. That equals to much heat, the sound is the bronze burning and seeping inside the base metal. Bad!

Hope this helps.

 

[tapkoote]

My first shot at TIG brazing, A cast iron pulley and I like it.
I soaked it in gas for two days.
Went out and bought a $7.00 preheat/post heat oven.
Clean and beveled the parts.
Heated the pulley to 375*, not the little piece.
Stood it on edge, tacked the ends.
After the first I had to clamp it, it had pulled apart.
Laid it down to braze.

I did buy silicon bronze TIG rod/ this finished pic is on next page
This pulley runs two different belts, wasn't available at the bearing shop. And the roto tiller is 60's era.
The test piece- I tried regular coated gas brazing rod-DON"T do it. It just makes a mess as you can see.
Pat

 

[tapkoote]

missed the finished part

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you want to see some amazing brazing check out this video on Keith Fenner's YouTube channel.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Bump!
Seeing as Image shack has fixed all the photo's of previous threads I posted. After years.
I'll bump my old brazing 101 thread back to life.

Cheers!

 

[Richard D]

Any good how to videos for brazing? Keith is great but doesn't give away all his trade secrets. I tried it many years ago in welding school, never got the hang of it...

 

[Lwel9226]

Does your inline fluxer cause the tip of your torch to plug up over time???? \

LW

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

So, pretend you broke an ear off the starter mounting boss on a cast iron SBC (this is a common problem), would this be a good way to make the repair? I'm assuming this could not be done with the engine still in the vehicle. What would the process be to repair the block?

I was out in my 68 Chevy 4x4 DD when I saw another for sale. I stopped and looked it over, unfortunately, mine was a bit of a jealous ***** so when I got back in and hit the key, there was just a nasty crunch. Starter's loose. Oh look, the outboard bolt hole is gone. One bolt, a 2x4 wedge, and some choice words got me started so I drove straight home. Called around and the shops which had heard of this problem and thought they could do something about it all wanted a bare block and IIRC $600. So I sat and looked at my **** fine running truck with no way to bolt a starter to it. When I talked to my wise old bodyman buddy, he suggested I try brazing it.
Pulled the starter and got the wires out of the way.
I might have took the header off, don't remember.
Degreased a good few times, heated and degreased again.
Heated the area and brazed a glorious glob of bronze on there.
Then I re tapped my hole, put it back together, and drove it another 7 or 8 years.

Now I'm always a bit leery of ogling **** trucks on the side of the road.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Does your inline fluxer cause the tip of your torch to plug up over time???? \

LW

It used to before I added an extra shut of valve. When I remember, I open the ace valve at the torch to let out the pressure and residual flux. It is quite corrosive and tends to make the hoses harder over time. I shall post up some more pics of my setup later.

I was out in my 68 Chevy 4x4 DD when I saw another for sale. I stopped and looked it over, unfortunately, mine was a bit of a jealous ***** so when I got back in and hit the key, there was just a nasty crunch. Starter's loose. Oh look, the outboard bolt hole is gone. One bolt, a 2x4 wedge, and some choice words got me started so I drove straight home. Called around and the shops which had heard of this problem and thought they could do something about it all wanted a bare block and IIRC $600. So I sat and looked at my **** fine running truck with no way to bolt a starter to it. When I talked to my wise old bodyman buddy, he suggested I try brazing it.
Pulled the starter and got the wires out of the way.
I might have took the header off, don't remember.
Degreased a good few times, heated and degreased again.
Heated the area and brazed a glorious glob of bronze on there.
Then I re tapped my hole, put it back together, and drove it another 7 or 8 years.

Now I'm always a bit leery of ogling **** trucks on the side of the road.

Cool story.

 

[Lhorn]

You guys got me interesting in trying out brazing. One question though. If I were to braze something on a car (floor pan hole for example) would I have problem getting epoxy primer to stick to it.

 

[shirk]

It used to before I added an extra shut of valve. When I remember, I open the ace valve at the torch to let out the pressure and residual flux. It is quite corrosive and tends to make the hoses harder over time. I shall post up some more pics of my setup later.



Cool story.

Got a picture of your setup?

I have an oxygen and propane setup with a inline fluxer that o use to make bike frames. Oxygen via an oxygen concentrator.

Most recent bike.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[NASTYZEN]

Here you go guys.





Valved on the Acetylene side.





Un valved on the Oxygen side. Could be valved but money was tight at the time I put this together.





The resulting fluxed flame color.