The big problem with the HF breaker bar is that it's so large. The head on it is basically almost as large as that of a 3/4" drive breaker bar. The higher quality, and more expensive, bars are much much smaller so they can fit into places the HF bar won't fit. Sometimes, it's not all about brute strength. Sometimes it's about being strong enough and being able to fit where you need it to fit. I have and use the HF breaker bar, but in some circumstances it's just too large to fit and I use something else.
Breaker bars
- Thread starter 955point9cummins
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Oops post... (See below for full thought...)
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MackMan
Well-known member
Yep, limited experience is a great limiting factor. I'm pretty young still, so the breadth of experience is somewhat limited. Done lots of work on personal passenger cars, but never had the full arsenal of tools at my disposal (something I'm working on building up), and professionally always worked with heavy and/or military trucks... I'm not a mechanic, but worked with them a lot, and help throw in some brute force when necessary. I remember we were trying to get the "bed" off an armored transport one time and the 3/4" drive impact wouldn't loosen the bolts, one of the guys had a "retired" clicker type torque wrench 3/4" drive, with a ~4' handle. took 4 of us on that to loosen the bolts. So that was the tool chosen by guys who had $50k+ in tools specifically for heavy trucks. I've worked at 3 test centers, 2 manufacturing facilities. 2 of the test centers were OEM, and one was independent.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Well, Mackman, we are all products of our experience and knowledge, and I've made my share of assumptions from time to time, so I can understand, especially if you work in an environment where it's all overly huge stuff to most others...
I grew up using my dad's ratchet and breaker (and being told, like others, NEVER use s cheater on a ratchet...); these right here;
The breaker still gets used regularly, mainly for lug nuts or breaking head bolts.
A fairly representative line up of breakers against a std ratchet, and an extra long Proto. Those top three breakers all have the 1/2" recess in the handle so they can double as an extension. (NOT for sticking an extension in and using the extension as a cheater...)
And the Craftsman std 3/8 ratchet and breaker. The breaker is still longer but not by as much. 1/4 drive stuff is even shorter, but still slightly longer than a std length ratchet.
I do have a theory about the shorter and T handle breakers: When socket tools first came out any ratchets were considered either too expensive, or frivolous, and many sets came with a "std" length T handle or breaker.
I think they simply continued the practice, particularly for 1/4" drive stuff because early ratchets WERE more easily damaged that today's. Tool companies in general are nothing if not creatures of habit (look how many still include 19 and 25/32 sockets in sets... probably to justify the tooling costs these days...).
I also think we are seeing the tail end of that type of thinking by the tool companies, and most of us will live to see then cut their offerings to mostly only the most common tools, leaving the specialty tools to the Snap-On and Mac's of the world... Heck, we already are seeing that happen a lot.
I grew up using my dad's ratchet and breaker (and being told, like others, NEVER use s cheater on a ratchet...); these right here;
The breaker still gets used regularly, mainly for lug nuts or breaking head bolts.
A fairly representative line up of breakers against a std ratchet, and an extra long Proto. Those top three breakers all have the 1/2" recess in the handle so they can double as an extension. (NOT for sticking an extension in and using the extension as a cheater...)
And the Craftsman std 3/8 ratchet and breaker. The breaker is still longer but not by as much. 1/4 drive stuff is even shorter, but still slightly longer than a std length ratchet.
I do have a theory about the shorter and T handle breakers: When socket tools first came out any ratchets were considered either too expensive, or frivolous, and many sets came with a "std" length T handle or breaker.
I think they simply continued the practice, particularly for 1/4" drive stuff because early ratchets WERE more easily damaged that today's. Tool companies in general are nothing if not creatures of habit (look how many still include 19 and 25/32 sockets in sets... probably to justify the tooling costs these days...).
I also think we are seeing the tail end of that type of thinking by the tool companies, and most of us will live to see then cut their offerings to mostly only the most common tools, leaving the specialty tools to the Snap-On and Mac's of the world... Heck, we already are seeing that happen a lot.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Oops, how did that happen... 
MackMan
Well-known member
That's a nice looking setup! I think that's the most breaker bars I've seen in my life.
The cost/use effectiveness of a long breaker bar is a better value than an equivalent length ratchet so I can see that now. I do think the 15" 1/2" is a good size, my old 12" Craftsman seems stubby now. But a 40" 1/2" drive ratchet seems almost comical.
As far as the strength argument though, in my experience that is moot, though I guess it depends on the quality of the ratchet. I've never seen a ratchet fail at the mechanism... seen the square drive shear off, and seen the attachment (socket/hex/adapters etc) fail, so it seems the weakest link is not the ratcheting mechanism. And the stuff I've seen break is Snap-On, Proto, Blackhawk type stuff, some impact rated, not cheapo stuff either.
Anyway, good educational thread for me here!
The cost/use effectiveness of a long breaker bar is a better value than an equivalent length ratchet so I can see that now. I do think the 15" 1/2" is a good size, my old 12" Craftsman seems stubby now. But a 40" 1/2" drive ratchet seems almost comical.
As far as the strength argument though, in my experience that is moot, though I guess it depends on the quality of the ratchet. I've never seen a ratchet fail at the mechanism... seen the square drive shear off, and seen the attachment (socket/hex/adapters etc) fail, so it seems the weakest link is not the ratcheting mechanism. And the stuff I've seen break is Snap-On, Proto, Blackhawk type stuff, some impact rated, not cheapo stuff either.
Anyway, good educational thread for me here!
Outlawmws
Well-known member
MackMan
Well-known member
Bet that was exciting.
First test center I worked at I remember someone was using a 4' pipe wrench and the handle had a real good curve to it... I asked how something so stout ended up with a curve like that to the handle and only response I got was "Butch did it"... Butch was the guy who drove around an F-SuperDuty with his dog in the passenger seat.. not the biggest guy there but not small... long story short, I was nice to Butch lol.
First test center I worked at I remember someone was using a 4' pipe wrench and the handle had a real good curve to it... I asked how something so stout ended up with a curve like that to the handle and only response I got was "Butch did it"... Butch was the guy who drove around an F-SuperDuty with his dog in the passenger seat.. not the biggest guy there but not small... long story short, I was nice to Butch lol.
CORTEZSS69
Well-known member
sberry
Banned
While I was preaching about the HF someone mentioned head size. I agree its not perfect and do have others, which a guy could snag at a good opportunity, there is no need to dump a lot in to something until its needed. Some basics do so much of it, you could have 1000's invested and still not have the perfect tool.
This is what the inside guts of a Plvmb (Proto) 1" drive 5849 ratchet looks like exploded. I have no clue how the PO managed it. Rebuild kits retailed for about $90 a year or so ago...
Well built? Yes. will they break? Also a Yes...
Someone was doing something VERY abusive to that poor ratchet. I just got a used 1/2" Proto 24t and I can't even imagine breaking it without actively trying to. Everything is so strong and simple.
djjsr
Well-known member
I have a Craftsman 1/4" drive breaker bar, about 4 or 5 inches long. I have no idea where or when I got it and don't think I've ever used it. I bought most of my hand tools about 40 years ago, so it's probably that old.
Am I missing something? What are these things for?
Am I missing something? What are these things for?
Who knows. I find it handy sometimes to break something loose, than stand it straight and use it like a nut driver, all in one motion.
owenst7
Well-known member
There's an important attribute for breaker bars that I haven't seen mentioned yet - stiffness. A breaker bar isn't much good if all your torque is robbed by flex in the bar.
I bought the harbor freight breaker bar after reading rave reviews here, and it falls down hard on this criteria. I never use it because it flexes so terribly. It doesn't "break" anything. A short ratchet breaks bolts free far better than that 25" bar. Expensive at $10, worth about $5, and only then because I suppose you could prop a door open with it. Not a heavy door though. A closet door.
Now I use a 3/4" drive Wright ratchet for this purpose. It is thoroughly excellent.
I'd be tickled to see this theory on torque (not impulse) demonstrated in a free body diagram.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Imagine this: your std 1/2" Proto ratchet is 9" long and weighs just over 1-1/4 Lbs. the 1" is 26" long, and weighs just over 12 Lbs...
WHAT could they have been doing?
Ditto. I wasn't going to say anything but you did.
nicksnothereman
Well-known member
It's probably only an issue if you're using short sockets. You could always use a short extension or a wobble if it's that much of an issue.
Most external head breaker bars in 1/2" + aren't going to have a small head. 3/8 usually have the internal head but at the time you're ready to break out the bar you're not really interested in testing tolerances of your 3/8 stuff.
Bingo! Way I was taught, by a grumpy auld sod, was to break a tight nut/bolt with a breaker bar and only then get a ratchet onto it. If he'd caught me using a ratchet as a breaker, my **** would have been up the road, toot-suite.
Grumpy auld ******* or not, his methods were sound and I learned a lot from him.
n8n
Well-known member
I use my breaker bar probably more often than a ratchet. I don't know how many times I've had to manually remove the lug nuts because no impact will budge them, who the hell put them on? I've got an old parts store 3/4" bar and a 3/4" to 1/2" impact reducer that comes out whenever Excessive Force is needed. I really need to upgrade my regular 1/2" bar, it's an old K-D USA made bar, it's way too flexy.
b18ccivics
Member
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 8
I have two of the longest mac breaker bars. Have two for the dreaded honda crank pulley somebody was talking about earlier. I did break one the first time I used it. Had a fwd axle nut rusted on, had car sitting on the ground in 1st with somebody holding the brakes. Pulling down tire slipped so had to block it, and and over 1200 foot pounds it broke. Had to see what it would do... I was impresed. Had to cut the bolt/axle off. Ten years later I have never had anything else that tight. And used cheater bars in the 5 foot range.
I have a couple really long Mac ratchets I use more often than not but as far as breaker bars the new craftsman ones snap like crazy I have a old c man but rarly use it it was my grandpas and I can't replace it IMO that harbor freight one is better than the new cman longer and stronger I have had it at least 10 years n snap ed ten c man ones since it's 10$ w a coupon rite now
If u want a new c man I got a few for sale still USA ones but **** maybee they will have a good china one soon or jus paint cman on a harbor freight one and mark it up to50$
If u want a new c man I got a few for sale still USA ones but **** maybee they will have a good china one soon or jus paint cman on a harbor freight one and mark it up to50$
I have a breaker bar in 1/2 (the long snap on one) and 3/8. With my long 1/2 ratchet......the breaker bar sits alot of days. My short 3/8......it gets used for unit bearings where a ratchet wont fit in between the cv axle and the lower control arm. I should pony up for the real long double box end gearwrenches for this, but they are so expensive. The breaker bar gives me the clearance to remove those bolts. It works for me.
Wakefield
Well-known member
Can a free body diagram show how force is transferred between the handle end,bolt/pivot,ears and on to the square drive? More than one pathway of force transfer operating in parallel? Say the bolt partially in tension and partially in shear?
It would be interesting if someone with a good Digital camera would take pictures of the amazing Harbor Freight bar while disassembled,I wonder if it has an axle bolt that butts the axle shoulder against the inside surface of the ear containing the internal threaded hole or is it just an ordinary bolt using the unthreaded part as the axle (don't lose the spring washer while taking the head off!) it might jump! (if the Harbor Freight bar is similar to the Duralast) (I suspect Snap On uses a definite torque value on the bolts in their breaker bars)-or the truck guy puts it "gudentite"
owenst7
Well-known member
Yes. That is exactly what it would show.