Breaker Compatibility for GE load Center

[600SL]

I have done a search and see many threads that discuss using the GE THQP in place of the THQL to save space. However I am confused, My breaker box does not list the THQP as acceptable. It only shows the THQL and some others. Furthermore for the top 4 places (the ones that I would like to change) it states that I can only use the THQDL. A search on the THQDL only comes up as a master breaker type which cant possibly fit? To complicate matters, in looking at the way this was wired it appears that the to four breakers are sharing neutrals. I believe that was acceptable code for the state of CT, at the time the house was constructed in 1991 but not sure about today.

So my question is for this particulare box can I use 2 THQP CB's in place of 1 THQL. And since this will be inspected is this consided a chnage where I would have to use AFCI breakers.

 

[alfredeneuman]

My breaker box does not list the THQP as acceptable. It only shows the THQL and some others.

Simple>>
If it doesn't list on the label you aren't allowed to use it.
It may not even have the extra parts perpendicular to the bus bar required for the THQP

 

[600SL]

Simple>>
If it doesn't list on the label you aren't allowed to use it.
It may not even have the extra parts perpendicular to the bus bar required for the THQP

That is what I was afraid of. But have 1/2 sized products maybe come available since the box was manufactured.

 

[mike93lx]

That is what I was afraid of. But have 1/2 sized products maybe come available since the box was manufactured.

Doesnt matter. unless the manufacturer expressly allows it, it's not permitted

 

[600SL]

Well that is the question I'm asking. Has GE produced a breaker since 1991 that they allow as a replacement for this box. Are there any GE service bulletins that state any alternatives since this box was produced.

 

[mike93lx]

Well that is the question I'm asking. Has GE produced a breaker since 1991 that they allow as a replacement for this box. Are there any GE service bulletins that state any alternatives since this box was produced.

You should be able to find that out with some searching. I doubt anyone is going to know the details of your exact box.

 

[sparky 1971]

I don't know diddly about GE panels so I am just taking a guess based on the part # TM402DC. The 40 is probably number of spaces. If it's a 40 space panel in 1991 there's no way it's going to be listed for twin type breakers then or now.

 

[600SL]

You should be able to find that out with some searching. I doubt anyone is going to know the details of your exact box.

Well I have been searching all day and came up with nothing. So looking for alternatives to keep me from reducing the number of circuits I will need to eliminate. The task is to create enough room to add another 240V circuit to allow the installation of a heat pump with a separate 240V E-heat circuit. So two 240V breakers are required to replace my current single 240V AC circuit. I found this but I have no idea if this can be rigged up to be 2 240V CB's. These CB's are on the list of allowable ones. But they look like they are three phase or something?

Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC THHQL32060 | Zoro

Order Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC, THHQL32060 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[sparky 1971]

Well I have been searching all day and came up with nothing. So looking for alternatives to keep me from reducing the number of circuits I will need to eliminate. The task is to create enough room to add another 240V circuit to allow the installation of a heat pump with a separate 240V E-heat circuit. So two 240V breakers are required to replace my current single 240V AC circuit. I found this but I have no idea if this can be rigged up to be 2 240V CB's. These CB's are on the list of allowable ones. But they look like they are three phase or something?

Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC THHQL32060 | Zoro

Order Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC, THHQL32060 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

That breaker will fit, it's not going to accomplish anything other than give you a 240 circuit and a 120 circuit. What are the two circuit sizes you need to add? Since you have to add a circuit anyway why not eliminate the current circuit and use those breaker spaces for a 90 amp breaker with #2 SER feeding a sub panel. Then feed the two new circuits from the sub? That is, if 90 amps is enough. When getting into resistance heat there can be some pretty large loads involved.

 

[mike93lx]

Well I have been searching all day and came up with nothing. So looking for alternatives to keep me from reducing the number of circuits I will need to eliminate. The task is to create enough room to add another 240V circuit to allow the installation of a heat pump with a separate 240V E-heat circuit. So two 240V breakers are required to replace my current single 240V AC circuit. I found this but I have no idea if this can be rigged up to be 2 240V CB's. These CB's are on the list of allowable ones. But they look like they are three phase or something?

Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC THHQL32060 | Zoro

Order Ge Miniature Circuit Breaker, THHQL Series 60A, 3 Pole, 240V AC, THHQL32060 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

Subpanel

 

[Zeke]

+1 on subpanel. There are some used breakers available for the old GE load center. I have one and also there is a used breaker supply about 8 miles from me. I bought a DP 50A from them to run the sub. All my house lights and recepts are in the sub. The only things left in the old box are a breaker for the garage sub and the package unit HVAC on the roof. Oh, the kitchen stuff is in there too.

 

[600SL]

That breaker will fit, it's not going to accomplish anything other than give you a 240 circuit and a 120 circuit. What are the two circuit sizes you need to add? Since you have to add a circuit anyway why not eliminate the current circuit and use those breaker spaces for a 90 amp breaker with #2 SER feeding a sub panel. Then feed the two new circuits from the sub? That is, if 90 amps is enough. When getting into resistance heat there can be some pretty large loads involved.

Yeah that's what I figured. It will be a 4 ton heat pump. So far its looking like 60/60. So the current AC one is 40 AMPs for the condenser. I can just replace that one with a 60 but still need another 60 for the E heater. Using the current AC breaker to run a sub panel is an option but I'm really trying to avoid that as there will be a sub panel in the future where some of those circuits will be moved to leaving plenty of space in the main breaker box. The idea is that the main breaker box will be attached to a generator at a later date. Necessary stuff like heat, water pump and some lights. All the other stuff goes into the sub panel. So Im trying to wire the HP to the main breaker box where it will remain.

 

[mike93lx]

No need to split that stuff out for a generator. If you are feeding it with an interlock, it will also feed the sub

 

[sparky 1971]

The only way I see to do it legally is with a sub. Instead of a sub for the heat, move four 120 circuits to it. That frees up two spaces to feed the sub and two more for the additional 240 circuit.

 

[600SL]

No need to split that stuff out for a generator. If you are feeding it with an interlock, it will also feed the sub

In the end I will need a sub regardless. The sub will also feed my shop which will not be a priority during a black out. But I would like to know how turning off a single breaker is possible within the panel. And can I do it with the panel I currently have in place or would that require a different panel. I will at least have to turn off the panel breaker. I assume and would prefer that to be done automatically.

 

[600SL]

The only way I see to do it legally is with a sub. Instead of a sub for the heat, move four 120 circuits to it. That frees up two spaces to feed the sub and two more for the additional 240 circuit.

That is the final goal but for the moment it looks like I will just have to eliminate some 120 circuits that are not really required. I can then reconnect them to the sub when its in place.

 

[mike93lx]

If you need the sub anyway, why not do it now?

 

[600SL]

If you need the sub anyway, why not do it now?

$$$ time $$$

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Email GE.

Ive had similar questions about successor breakers for older panels, emailed them and they responded within a couple days.

 

[Norcal]

If the OP's panel is a 40 space model & if it was built prior to the 42 circuit max rule, it will be full size breakers only, bigger size panels are still uncommon.

 

[600SL]

Email GE.

Ive had similar questions about successor breakers for older panels, emailed them and they responded within a couple days.

Wow

I just called GE costumer service. I was suprised that they even answered the phone. They did answer but seemed to have no knowledge of the GE circuit breaker line. Sounded like they only deal with jet engines, satellite systems or large transformers for nuclear power plants. They did take my number and email along with the model number of the box and said someone from the right department will call me back. I'm not holding my breath on this one, but worth a try.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I just called GE costumer service. They did answer but seemed to have no knowledge of the GE circuit breaker line.

I know that GE has quite a few "irons in the fire" but did not know they were into making costumes as well. It's no wonder they don't know about circuit breakers.

 

[mike93lx]

Wow

I just called GE costumer service. I was suprised that they even answered the phone. They did answer but seemed to have no knowledge of the GE circuit breaker line. Sounded like they only deal with jet engines, satellite systems or large transformers for nuclear power plants. They did take my number and email along with the model number of the box and said someone from the right department will call me back. I'm not holding my breath on this one, but worth a try.

GE doesn't make breaker panels and hasn't for a while. It's just their name being licensed. Same with appliances, sealants and lighting.

I bet tech support for this stuff is nearly non existent. Maybe look in an online manual for a phone number?

 

[jeffmoss26]

they sold this division to ABB https://electrification.us.abb.com/products/circuit-breakers/residential-circuit-breakers

 

[Norcal]

GE sold their electrical products to ABB, the owners of Baldor, & T&B, & have heard rumors that it's been resold, if that is true you may have a easier time getting a politician to tell the truth than get the desired information.

Edit: GE has sold few of the product lines they were well known for such as plastics, lighting, & they sold GE Appliances to the ChiComs (Haier}.

 

[600SL]

GE doesn't make breaker panels and hasn't for a while. It's just their name being licensed. Same with appliances, sealants and lighting.

I bet tech support for this stuff is nearly non existent. Maybe look in an online manual for a phone number?

Kind of what I figured. I did find this: I will give that number a call on Monday. I would not be supersized if it was disconnected.

 

[600SL]

I don't know if GE sold this. I just found the a latest version of this box on Amazon, where they show a picture of the inside data sheet. Top left corner says General Electric Co 41 Woodford Ave. Plainville CT 06062. It also says made in USA. Possibly an old picture but on the Home Depot sight someone from GE industrial responded to the question if this box could be used with the THQP breakers. The answer was no. So I think we can put that to bed for my older version as well. I do know that GE in Plainville CT still exists. Close enough for me to go and knock on the door, assuming I want to be escorted out by armed guards.

 

[mike93lx]

Kind of what I figured. I did find this: I will give that number a call on Monday. I would not be supersized if it was disconnected.

Doesnt hurt to try, but ge appliances probably wont help. They were sold to haier

 

[mike93lx]

I don't know if GE sold this. I just found the a latest version of this box on Amazon, where they show a picture of the inside data sheet. Top left corner says General Electric Co 41 Woodford Ave. Plainville CT 06062. It also says made in USA. Possibly an old picture but on the Home Depot sight someone from GE industrial responded to the question if this box could be used with the THQP breakers. The answer was no. So I think we can put that to bed for my older version as well. I do know that GE in Plainville CT still exists. Close enough for me to go and knock on the door, assuming I want to be escorted out by armed guards.

That's a facility that ABB took over

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'll see if i can dig up the old emails I had from GE.

I ran into a similar issue with an older GE meter main panel and wondering if THQP breakers would work. from what i recall, the THQP breakers dont work with the older panels because they are so much smaller and the buss stabs are not setup to connect to the smaller thinner breakers.

they did give me a part number that does work with the older panels but i dont recall what it was off hand

 

[600SL]

I'll see if i can dig up the old emails I had from GE.

I ran into a similar issue with an older GE meter main panel and wondering if THQP breakers would work. from what i recall, the THQP breakers dont work with the older panels because they are so much smaller and the buss stabs are not setup to connect to the smaller thinner breakers.

they did give me a part number that does work with the older panels but i dont recall what it was off hand

Thanks for the help, but I wouldn't loose to much sleep over it as the circuits I would need to eliminate are not of high value and the next project will involve the sub panel. I know I have actually used different brands as well as thin CB's in these panels in the past before I knew any better and they did work and even passed inspection. But going forward, I intend to do things correctly. The easiest way for me to do this in the mean time is to pair the circuits that are using a shared netral. That means wiring the two circuits together with a pigtail going to a single breaker. It means using wirenuts in the breaker box. I haven't seen it done but cant find anything in the code to say I cant but it sure looks kind of wrong. But none of those circuits would be over loaded. Just the inconvenience of having one circuit shutting off the lights in two bedrooms instead of one. I was however called out by an inspector for placing two wires directly to a single breaker, which is kind of the same thing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The urban legend code book says wire nuts and splices in panels are not permitted....

But the NEC has no such prohibition so...

 

[600SL]

Got this from GE today, I was impressed.

Called the ABB number and they confirmed that there are no half size or tandem breakers available for this box.

Dear John

Thanks for contacting GE Support.

Please note GE PowerMark Gold™ TM4020 Standard Main Breakers are supported by ABB. Please find below their web & telephone contact for their technical support.

https://electrification.us.abb.com/post-sales-technical-support

1- 888-437-3765 (U.S.)

Thanks & Regards