Breaker compatibility

[tallfreak]

I installed a new more powerful range hood in my kitchen. The specs say it pulls 3.75 amps. It's on its own 20A breaker. The breaker gets hot and it has tripped once if the fan runs on high for about 15 minutes. The hoods internal thermal overload has tripped twice. I go to take a closer look at the panel and notice I have 8 20A Eaton type BR breakers in my Siemens QP panel, one of which is the range hood. The wire for the hoods breaker is burned and insulation melted back about 2 inches from the breaker.

From what I found on Google, these are not compatible breakers. I will be replacing them. My questions are:

1. Could this compatibility issue be the cause of my burned wire and tripping problem?

2. Could this have damaged my panel?

It's just one thing after another in this shotty built house.

 

[Terry D]

You have a mixture of Siemens and Eaton breakers. What kind of panel is it. It looks like a Siemens. Even though they are not listed to use in each others panels, they fit in good enough that it would not cause that wire to burn. The lug on the breaker was either loose or the breaker failed internally. To be on the safe side, pull the breaker out and inspect where it attaches on the buss. But you say the overload on the hood tripped. you could have two problems, but not necessarily. Replace the breaker with the correct brand for that panel, cut the wire back to good copper and run the hood with an amp clamp at the breaker and read the current to see if it is in specs. But please, if you are not comfortable doing this, hire a pro.

Edit: now that I reread it, you did say that it was a Siemens panel. They should be all Siemens breakers. But having a Eaton in there will not cause that

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not using breakers that have been tested with your specific model load center will likely cause a home inspection failure. The cost to replace those breaker is not that much.

For the wires with damaged insulation, cut them back to where the insulation is good within the load center and splice on new wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

the incompatible breaker wont cause that. thats a case of the lug not being tightened down correctly or to the right spec.

get those eaton BR junk breakers out of there and replace them with siemens QP

 

[tallfreak]

Thanks for the responses. I am planning on replacing them tomorrow and checking the amps on that wire. For now it's turned off

I'm not totally sure it was the range hood thermal protection that tripped. Twice today while cooking breakfast it was running on high then lost all power and turned back on about 5 seconds later. The panel breaker was not tripped but I dont think it could reset itself.

 

[Jim greengo]

I'd pull the breaker and make sure the buss isnt burned up where breaker attaches,I've seen it before.

 

[Terry D]

Thanks for the responses. I am planning on replacing them tomorrow and checking the amps on that wire. For now it's turned off

I'm not totally sure it was the range hood thermal protection that tripped. Twice today while cooking breakfast it was running on high then lost all power and turned back on about 5 seconds later. The panel breaker was not tripped but I dont think it could reset itself.

I have seen breakers fail internally and burn the wire like that. The lug was tight, but the wire was burnt. Sounds like that might be what was going on with yours. Breakers don't reset themselves and overloads wont reset that quick

 

[tallfreak]

the incompatible breaker wont cause that. thats a case of the lug not being tightened down correctly or to the right spec.

get those eaton BR junk breakers out of there and replace them with siemens QP

I've heard that Eaton BR is junk before. Why are they so bad?

 

[KPack]

I've heard that Eaton BR is junk before. Why are they so bad?

I'm curious to know that as well. My subpanel for the shop is Eaton, and if I should replace them with a different type I would like to know.

 

[tallfreak]

I just swapped out all 8 breakers. The vent hood breaker terminal screw was about 1 turn loose. I probably could have pulled the wire right out. I checked FLA on the range hood and it's just under 3A. Safe to say it was because of the loose connection. It probably got hot enough to drop voltage to the point the hood shut down. I went through all breakers and the ground neutral buss and made sure the other screws were tight.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[rlitman]

I've heard that Eaton BR is junk before. Why are they so bad?

While I have no actual field experience in comparing them, when I looked at the published trip curves the other day to respond to a thread about using small wires in a lamp, I noticed something interesting.

An Eaton BR 20A breaker's thermal/magnetic trip curve guarantees that it may need 400A to trip on the "instantaneous" magnetic mode.
A 20A Square D QO's instantaneous trip upper limit is 220A. That's significantly better performance, if the charts are to be believed.

 

[Norcal]

Eaton has 2 lines of residential panels/circuit breakers, one type CH which was formerly Cutler-Hammer and my favorite, and BR which was the former Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer, the BR panels are a Challenger design, which is a defunct successor to Zinsco, one of the 2 most reviled names in electrical equipment, the other being FPE, because of the Zinsco heritage, I call Eaton BR "Zinsco II" ,would rather use any other make, even GE, Eaton was calling the BR line "Engineered Value" which is another name for cheap.

 

[tallfreak]

Eaton has 2 lines of residential panels/circuit breakers, one type CH which was formerly Cutler-Hammer and my favorite, and BR which was the former Bryant/Westinghouse/Cutler-Hammer, the BR panels are a Challenger design, which is a defunct successor to Zinsco, one of the 2 most reviled names in electrical equipment, the other being FPE, because of the Zinsco heritage, I call Eaton BR "Zinsco II" ,would rather use any other make, even GE, Eaton was calling the BR line "Engineered Value" which is another name for cheap.

In a residential situation why would you want to cut costs on such an important safety device. Especially when the competition isn't that much more. I spent a little over $50 for 8 siemens breakers today. I used a siemens 200A panel when I built my shop and I know it didn't cost me more than $500 for the panel and all the breakers I have in it.

This builder cut costs in more than just electrical. I replaced shark bite fittings all over the house when we first bought it. Only to have one blow out in the front yard last year. Not only was it a buried sharkbite, but it was less than 10 inches deep. What really scares me is that it was less than 2 feet from being under the foundation. Makes me wonder if there are any under or in the foundation.

I meant to mention earlier that the BR breakers practically fell off the buss bars. They didn't not make a good connection at all. I meant to take a picture, but I forgot. The connection was deep enough but the breaker didn't have enough tension on the buss if that makes sense.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In a residential situation why would you want to cut costs on such an important safety device. Especially when the competition isn't that much more. I spent a little over $50 for 8 siemens breakers today. I used a siemens 200A panel when I built my shop and I know it didn't cost me more than $500 for the panel and all the breakers I have in it.

This builder cut costs in more than just electrical. I replaced shark bite fittings all over the house when we first bought it. Only to have one blow out in the front yard last year. Not only was it a buried sharkbite, but it was less than 10 inches deep. What really scares me is that it was less than 2 feet from being under the foundation. Makes me wonder if there are any under or in the foundation.

I meant to mention earlier that the BR breakers practically fell off the buss bars. They didn't not make a good connection at all. I meant to take a picture, but I forgot. The connection was deep enough but the breaker didn't have enough tension on the buss if that makes sense.

thats because the tangs expand and contract and get loose over time. good thing you replaced them. you might have burned up the buss stab

 

[Dagny]

I don't like any of that style panel especially the aluminum buss panels sooner or later they all do what yours did.