Breaker panel location

[kerryt1]

I'm working on plans for a new home build, and have some questions regarding electrical service.

• What is the code relating to placement of the electrical panel? Does it have to be on an exterior wall? I'd like to place it about 10' in from an exterior wall.
• I will be running a line to the back of the house to facilitate a tie in for a future shop. What is the ideal / necessary configuration to install now in order to run a separate subpanel in the future shop?
• The primary building will be 3020 SQFT, 4BD, 3BA. Will possibly require 2 HVAC units. What size electrical service sounds reasonable, and what will I need once the second building is constructed? 200A + 100A?

Thanks in advance for the advice. I'm thick skinned, so please tell me if I'm an idiot.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

First off, will u have a meter main or just a meter pan?

Without knowing all the loads u have, we really cant say what size service u have. I would do a load calc. Also, your PoCo will most likely require this anyway!

I would just run conduit out to the future location and cap it off. Then u can pull in wire later. Be sure to put in 1 or 2 extra smaller conduits for communication cable.

 

[RoyBell]

Wylie was spot on about load calc and running extra conduits for future items like phone.

200 amp should be adequate. You house will be roughly the same as mine. I have electric dryer/oven/1 ac and my house originally came with 100 amp panel. I put a 200 amp in when I moved in (mainly for the extra circuit capacity). Rarely will a house need over 200 amps, but different states and codes may require different sizes. We are currently remodeling a house and it has a 400 amp service. It's about 6K square feet with 5 AC units and 3 ovens in the kitchen to give you an idea the size of it.

In Chicagoland your panel (or first means of disconnect) needs to be within 5' of your meter. That really limits your location of anywhere but an exterior wall.

Future garage conduit I would stick a 1.5"-2" pvc in the ground. If you run 100 amps, you are covered (and likely overkill unless you are running compressors, lifts, carpentry tools and hvac). If you decide to run more, you are covered. 2" pvc isn't substantially more than 1.25" at the end of the day.

 

[kerryt1]

Well, I don't have load calcs, but I can add a little more detail:

• Geothermal HVAC if it works out; if not, 1x 4 ton AC + 1x 2 ton AC, gas furnaces
• Gas oven & range
• Gas water heater
• Electric dryer
• Shop will have electric lift and a 220V welder, and probably HVAC since it'll have plumbing.

Side note- the electrician preferred by the builder indicates that he can remotely locate the breaker panel, but it will be at least $1000. I presume this is for wire that can carry 300A?

Thanks for the input, I like the idea of running only conduit to save costs up front.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

U didnt answer the question about what kind of service panel setup u will.

Will u have just a meter pan on the outside and the main will be inside or will u have a meter main combo?

If only a pan on the outside, u should check with your AHJ about any possible rules for max length of unfused SE wire going through the house.

There is no such thing as a 300a service- u would either get a 200a service or a 400a service.

With your loads, i bet 200a will be more than adequate!

 

[Cmreschke]

There are 320 amp services. I've installed many.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . . what desired INTERIOR wall do you want this breaker panel location ?? Why??

Does new house have buried incoming PoCo power ?? More than likely there is inevitable location where electric will approach/enter the house.

Unfinished portion of basement for mechanical room would be prime location for the breaker panel as you'd still have open floor joists, easier expansion/changes, etc.

While you're planning extra conduits, good future proofing for various communication providers (ie CableCo vs ATT-UVerse vs DirectTV etc) would have conduits between floors where you can tie in different providers. Also, conduit from attic down to centralized wire center would cover you for future DirectTV on roof.

Good luck on new build as you'll only have QuadRillion decisions to make !!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There are 320 amp services. I've installed many.

That is a 400a service- 320a continous.

 

[kerryt1]

Will u have just a meter pan on the outside and the main will be inside or will u have a meter main combo?

If only a pan on the outside, u should check with your AHJ about any possible rules for max length of unfused SE wire going through the house.

Meter panel only on the exterior, not combination. I am curious about the max length for sure, please point me in the right direction if you can.

OP . . . . what desired INTERIOR wall do you want this breaker panel location ?? Why??

Does new house have buried incoming PoCo power ?? More than likely there is inevitable location where electric will approach/enter the house.

Unfinished portion of basement for mechanical room would be prime location for the breaker panel as you'd still have open floor joists, easier expansion/changes, etc.

While you're planning extra conduits, good future proofing for various communication providers (ie CableCo vs ATT-UVerse vs DirectTV etc) would have conduits between floors where you can tie in different providers. Also, conduit from attic down to centralized wire center would cover you for future DirectTV on roof.

Good luck on new build as you'll only have QuadRillion decisions to make !!

My statements may have been misleading. What I'm wanting to do is co-locate HVAC, WH, well tank, sprinkler controls, and electrical panels in a mechanical room that would be non-conditioned space accessed via the garage. The run from the exterior meter would be roughly 10' in the plan view, so maybe 15-16' of total wire length?

The basement would be ideal...but as you well know basements and Oklahoma don't usually work well together. The power company is on the edge of the lot and will be buried. I will definitely sleeve conduit for future runs of network and/or co-ax.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Meter panel only on the exterior, not combination. I am curious about the max length for sure, please point me in the right direction if you can.

There is no NEC code for max length of unfused wire, though IMHO there should be.

However, Your AHJ may have a restriction...

 

[kerryt1]

There is no NEC code for max length of unfused wire, though IMHO there should be.

However, Your AHJ may have a restriction...

What would you suggest such a length should be? Honest question, I don't want to do anything stupid.

Also...AHJ? Authority having jurisdiction according to google...ie inspectors?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What would you suggest such a length should be? Honest question, I don't want to do anything stupid.

Also...AHJ? Authority having jurisdiction according to google...ie inspectors?

AHJ would be the building department.

I prefer no length of unfused wire inside a house which means a disconnect on the outside by or with the meter.

 

[Norcal]

There is no NEC code for max length of unfused wire, though IMHO there should be.

However, Your AHJ may have a restriction...

From my readings on various electrical forums, a lot of AHJ's define it at 5 feet, the simple way to get around any restrictions is have the main outside, the feed to the panel from the main will have to be 4-wire.

What would you suggest such a length should be? Honest question, I don't want to do anything stupid.

Also...AHJ? Authority having jurisdiction according to google...ie inspectors?

AHJ is not the inspector, they are a representative of the AHJ.

 

[finn]

My "project house" has an outdoor rated panel with 4 or 6 breakers located outside, next to the meter. One of these breakers feeds a sub panel located 16 feet away, on an inside wall, which controls the house mechanical, lighting, and outlet circuits.

The outdoor panel near the meter has breakers for the detached garage and outdoor lighting and power circuits.

 

[rsnip988]

From my readings on various electrical forums, a lot of AHJ's define it at 5 feet, the simple way to get around any restrictions is have the main outside, the feed to the panel from the main will have to be 4-wire.

When I asked my Inspector about the "5 foot" rule of thumb last week, he stated in our area that if the Meter didn't come directly into the Main panel from outside he would require a main disconnect outside even if it was only 1 foot away...

So the answer is "ask your local inspector", just because something is CODE doesn't mean the local guys will pass your inspection...