Breaker Switch Throwing

[bookman51]

I have a breaker switch that keeps throwing in my shop and I cannot determine why. It does it in an irregular pattern, as near as I can determine. It has been doing it ever since the lights and fans were put in about three years ago. The only things on that circuit are one set of t-5 lights and four ceiling fans. It can go weeks, even months, without throwing. I can walk into my shop and go to turn the a fan on (each have a separate switch) or the one light, and nothing Go over to the breaker box and the switch is thrown. I am not sure that anything needs to be on or that it is even thrown when I turn on anything. I do not recall it doing it all summer and fall, and then with cold weather it has done it a couple of times recently. I can flip the breaker switch and turn the light and fans on, and everything is fine.

I talked with an electrician today and he said it should not be doing it (but it does), and he has no solution. The wiring is all in conduit.

Any suggestions or thoughts?

 

[aandpdan]

Is it a regular breaker or is it a GFCI or AFCI breaker? Both of them would have a "test" button.

 

[bookman51]

Is it a regular breaker or is it a GFCI or AFCI breaker? Both of them would have a "test" button.

It is the breaker switch in the breaker box.

 

[KMdef9]

That electrician doesn't know squat or doesn't want to diagnose it. Try changing the breaker. Or you probably have wire touching each other somewhere. You need to tear open every box they worked on and inspect. If you find nothing, you might have a faulty outlet/switch/device.

It is the breaker switch in the breaker box.

You're missing what he's asking. He's not asking where but what. Are they standard breakers or GFCI ones?

 

[Hankoh]

Breakers, just like anything else, can go bad themselves. I second the suggestion to change the breaker. I have had one or two go bad over the years; it is certainly a possibility.

 

[bookman51]

That electrician doesn't know squat or doesn't want to diagnose it. Try changing the breaker. Or you probably have wire touching each other somewhere. You need to tear open every box they worked on and inspect. If you find nothing, you might have a faulty outlet/switch/device.



You're missing what he's asking. He's not asking where but what. Are they standard breakers or GFCI ones?

Best I can say is I do not know. Now on my wiring lines for plugs they have GFCI breakers on the first plug coming out of the line. For this breaker, it is in the main box. Seems like if the entire box is GFCI, they why would the electrician put GFCI breakers in the plug in lines.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Best I can say is I do not know. Now on my wiring lines for plugs they have GFCI breakers on the first plug coming out of the line. For this breaker, it is in the main box. Seems like if the entire box is GFCI, they why would the electrician put GFCI breakers in the plug in lines.

The outlets with GFCIs arent called GFCI breakers theyre called GFCI outlets.

The entire breaker panel would NOT be GFCI protected.

What everyone is asking is is the offending breaker GFCI. There should be a test button on it.

If youre not sure then can u take some pics and post them here please.

What brand of breaker panel and breakers do u have?

 

[bookman51]

The outlets with HFCIs arent called GFCI breakers theyre called GFCI outlets.

The entire breaker panel would NOT be GFCI protected.

What everyone is asking is is the offending breaker GFCI. There should be a test button on it.

If youre not sure then can u take some pics and post them here please.

What brand of breaker panel and breakers do u have?

I will get the brand tomorrow. The line runs directly out of the breaker box to the one light fixture and the fans and there is no test button on the line.

 

[ard]

That electrician doesn't know squat or doesn't want to diagnose it.

To be fair, he said he "talked" to an electrician...

He has 'talked' to several here in this thread and they cant definitively tell him what is wrong....most guys will only give free chit chat to a certain point.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Swap it out with a differant breaker in the panel and see what it does.
If it trips the other breaker check wiring in the circuit.

 

[KMdef9]

To be fair, he said he "talked" to an electrician...

He has 'talked' to several here in this thread and they cant definitively tell him what is wrong....most guys will only give free chit chat to a certain point.

Yet, the 'electrician' has no solution. How do you come to no solution by just talking? Either he doesn't know how to, or doesn't want the job. Pretty common for tradesman to play dumb if they don't want the job. I'd always just quote really high in the rare chance I didn't want the job, but to each their own.

Several here have given plausible suggestions. OP didn't have problems till work was done, 99% chance that the work done is the culprit. I (we) only suggested swapping the breaker first because it's common, easy, fast and cheap. We didn't just say 'Sorry, we have no idea what to do'.

 

[sberry]

A little testing and looking is in order here and heating this up from a gfci circuit may be helpful. Wire a pigtail to it and plug it in

 

[bookman51]

A little testing and looking is in order here and heating this up from a gfci circuit may be helpful. Wire a pigtail to it and plug it in

Thanks. Looks like something that cannot be diagnosed long distance by my description, which, I admit, is limited. And it looks like some folks are getting testy, so let us just close down the discussion. Thanks for the help given. I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

[bookman51]

I will add one more entry. I went out to my shop this morning (below zero here) and wrote down all the information from the breaker. The box is a Square D. On the breaker itself is Type TIPO HOM 10KA 120/240V I/Cu Listed CB HACR type TIPO CARR Issue AI 2899 Now my old eyes could have gotten something wrong, but I used a magnifying glass and did the best I could. Thanks in advance.

 

[ard]

Thanks. Looks like something that cannot be diagnosed long distance by my description, which, I admit, is limited. And it looks like some folks are getting testy, so let us just close down the discussion. Thanks for the help given. I apologize if I offended anyone.

I think the issue is that at some point words are inadequate and you have to physically try something. You are to that point. Swap breakers, if the same breaker now on a differnt circuit trips (or 'throws' as you call it), you have a bad breaker.

 

[bookman51]

I think the issue is that at some point words are inadequate and you have to physically try something. You are to that point. Swap breakers, if the same breaker now on a differnt circuit trips (or 'throws' as you call it), you have a bad breaker.

Yes, I think you are right. Thanks

 

[ard]

Is this something you feel capable of tackling?

Oh, you dont actually have to move the breaker- you can just move the wires. Just swap the wires, leave the breakers in place.

And of course, the disclaimer- if you feel it is beyond your comfort zone, dont risk it.

 

[bookman51]

Is this something you feel capable of tackling?

Oh, you dont actually have to move the breaker- you can just move the wires. Just swap the wires, leave the breakers in place.

And of course, the disclaimer- if you feel it is beyond your comfort zone, dont risk it.

It probably a pretty simple task for someone who knows what they are doing. I don't, and the consequences of doing it wrong for 220 volts can be pretty serious. If it were a matter of pulling a plug and absolutely knowing that electricity could not flow into an appliance, sure, I would tackle it. But messing around in a breaker box is outside my comfort zone. Thanks much.

 

[sberry]

And it looks like some folks are getting testy, so let us just close down the discussion. Thanks for the help given. I apologize if I offended anyone.

You are not bothering anyone.

 

[CJ7VFR]

You are not bothering anyone.

I agree. You asked a question, and people are trying to help you find the answer. You are in no way bothering anyone, and any information that ends up being found to help with your issue will also help anyone in the future who searches this site for a similar problem.

Some people are just a bit more "rough" around the edges than others, and may come off as being testy as they try to ask you about your problem.

Jim

 

[ard]

It probably a pretty simple task for someone who knows what they are doing. I don't, and the consequences of doing it wrong for 220 volts can be pretty serious. If it were a matter of pulling a plug and absolutely knowing that electricity could not flow into an appliance, sure, I would tackle it. But messing around in a breaker box is outside my comfort zone. Thanks much.

I understand. Ive been wiring stuff since I was 14, so its second nature.

You mentioned talking to an electrician. Maybe he would cut you a break on replacing a breaker? A SqD HOM is like $9. 5 minute job. If he knew that you understood it was a 'might work', he might work with you on it. A few bucks perhaps?

While a swap would also tell you, then you will have a bad breaker on the other circuit- for the $9 cost of a breaker its done.

Yes, problem might still be there, but you WILL have ruled out the breakers.

GL

 

[bookman51]

I understand. Ive been wiring stuff since I was 14, so its second nature.

You mentioned talking to an electrician. Maybe he would cut you a break on replacing a breaker? A SqD HOM is like $9. 5 minute job. If he knew that you understood it was a 'might work', he might work with you on it. A few bucks perhaps?

While a swap would also tell you, then you will have a bad breaker on the other circuit- for the $9 cost of a breaker its done.

Yes, problem might still be there, but you WILL have ruled out the breakers.

GL

Good advice. The electrician I talked with lives just a few miles from me in the country. I told him that whenever he is in between jobs and it is a nice day, give me a call. I might get the breaker ahead of time so he is not spending his time getting one. I am a bit cautious because I feel like I got burnt today by a local contractor charging me $456 to replace the windows in the cupula in my Wick building that had come put because (in words of the Wick folks in Wisconsin) of "design error." I am having some conversation with the Wick folks and the person in charge of this area was supposed to give me a call back within an hour this afternoon. It is after 7 p.m. and no call. Sorry of the venting. If Wicks comes through, I will put that on the forum too.

 

[bookman51]

You are not bothering anyone.

Thanks. Sometimes it is hard to tell when there is not a face-to-face meeting.

 

[bookman51]

I agree. You asked a question, and people are trying to help you find the answer. You are in no way bothering anyone, and any information that ends up being found to help with your issue will also help anyone in the future who searches this site for a similar problem.

Some people are just a bit more "rough" around the edges than others, and may come off as being testy as they try to ask you about your problem.

Jim

Thanks, sometimes it is hard to tell without a face-to-face meeting. I guess the limitation of the medium...or me.