pelletman
Well-known member
Can anyone tell me what the best way to put a VFD on a 2HP 3ph Bridgeport with Prototrak CNC control, if that matters. Is 110 1ph input OK or do I need 240? Or do I have to do a phase converter? Thanks!
Bridgeport CNC Best 1 Phase to 3 Phase Conversion
- Thread starter pelletman
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MountaineerMiner
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2012
- Messages
- 44
I would use a 220v vfd from Teco/Westinghouse, Hitachi, Fuji, or similar quality. I would not go with the eBay/Amazon specials for a CNC mill or any primary equipment. I am guilty of using them on secondary equipment like sanders and hydraulic power packs.
Definitely do not use a static phase converter. Rotary is ok, but I prefer the clean power from a vfd.
Definitely do not use a static phase converter. Rotary is ok, but I prefer the clean power from a vfd.
Have you looked at this thread?
Show us your VFD conversions/installations
Show us your VFD conversions/installations
tool_scrounge
Well-known member
Clean power from a VFD? What external filters are you using on the PWM outouts?
https://www.ctmmagnetics.com/the-basics-of-sine-wave-filters/
alcorelli
Well-known member
Currently (lol) using a Westinghouse Teco on my BP mill.
No issues.
Still haven't made any remote switching like jog, reverse estop yet. Just using the control panel.
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No issues.
Still haven't made any remote switching like jog, reverse estop yet. Just using the control panel.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
laser3kw
Well-known member
VFD used on just the motor is doable and many here are currently using them. However, do some checking first when using a VFD as a three phase converter. VFD's do not put out a true sine wave which may reek havoc with a computer based system like a CNC and servo based controls.
I'm not sure how your prototrac is wired into the machine but I'm not sure that a single VFD is going to do the job for you. A lot of other loads on that machine besides just the spindle motor. I'd suggest the at you check with American Rotary for a solution, https://www.americanrotary.com/?gcl...0QL4fqNIAdagkjl83_VRLrrHBI-41r2waArDKEALw_wcB or one of the other phase converter company's. They have converters that will give you a one source solution to powering this whole machine as well as other 3 phase loads in the shop. I have a single rotary converter that powers 2 mills, 2 lathes and a drill press. That is one converter instead of 5 VFD's plus workarounds for coolant pumps and axis drives. I also have power available to test other 3 phase machines.
Another player in the field is Phase Perfect, https://www.phasetechnologies.com/products/essential Which I know little about but know that it is highly respected.
lg
no neat sig line
Another player in the field is Phase Perfect, https://www.phasetechnologies.com/products/essential Which I know little about but know that it is highly respected.
lg
no neat sig line
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MountaineerMiner
Active member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2012
- Messages
- 44
None.
Compared to the other back end sources of 3 phase power I find it generally to be the cleanest. Way better than no leg from a static and better than an unbalanced leg from a cheap rotary setup.
What is your recommended setup tool_scrounge? Details of your installs and necessity would help both me and the op.
Larry_g brings up a good point on the other 3 phase loads. The op will need to identify if other 3 phase loads exist. They vary may well, but it is also very likely the entire control is single phase and only the spindle is 3 phase. I have found this to be more the rule than the exception on knee mill conversions. A picture of the control panel would go a long way.
I say all,this as my shop is wired for both 3 phase and single phase 220, waiting to finish the rotary installation permanently through a panel. One thing I will say for certain is that the motor controls through a vfd are much simpler. Also, at work we have largely moved to vfd vs across the line start 3 phase for motors below medium voltage and even high demand starting loads. I’m a MinE not an EE, tool_scrounge should be able to fill in the details, I just get by with what works.
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tool_scrounge
Well-known member
I guess it depends on your definition of clean. From an electrical perspective, the VFD is PWM drive and thus does not look like a sine wave at all. It is pretty noisy. The motor manufactures make inverter specific motors to work with VFDs. A lot of folks use VFDs with non inverter rated motors with varying degrees of success. Most work fine from anecdotal evidence, some do not. The article listed below discusses it more.
https://www.ecmweb.com/design/article/20897062/mating-new-variable-frequency-drives-to-existing-motors
All the VFDs I have used only want a motor attached to the output. No switches or anything similar between the motor and the VFD. So for single motor applications like a Bridgeport mill or a drill press, they are great, provided you rewire that on-off switch location. For multi motor applications, two speed motors, lathes with relay controls, etc. it is an issue .
Here are some pictures, as you can see one of the X servos has a broken bracket. Anyone have any idea where to find one of those? Maybe I can tig weld it? I think the Prototrak has a separate 110V power source
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fVAsBGeJFJBqrcDH9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fVAsBGeJFJBqrcDH9
laser3kw
Well-known member
If the Proto trac is 120v for everything, servo drive, controller etc., You are good to go. Run the spindle motor on the VFD and make some chips. As far as the bracket, contact Proto trac, they may have one at a reasonable cost. Second, Ebay is a good resource. Third, repair it yourself. The tough part is after you weld it(?), machining it straight again.
Good luck, and keep the pictures coming as you get it going again!
matt_i
Well-known member
First I'd want to confirm that the step motors run 120vac and the 240vac 3 phase is for the spindle motor only.
Best way is thru the wiring diagram (may have to try to source from Prototrak). Next best way is to trace the power-side wiring (vs control side) and see where the 3 wires are headed vs. where 2 wires are headed.
The PhasePerfect mentioned above is excellent - its essentially a replacement for utility 3phase but its expensive. However it is portable and can be moved to a new location, unlike the cost of the utility installation, which is of course fixed. It can be used to run any 3ph machine that fits within the max power of the unit on 240vac.
Best way is thru the wiring diagram (may have to try to source from Prototrak). Next best way is to trace the power-side wiring (vs control side) and see where the 3 wires are headed vs. where 2 wires are headed.
The PhasePerfect mentioned above is excellent - its essentially a replacement for utility 3phase but its expensive. However it is portable and can be moved to a new location, unlike the cost of the utility installation, which is of course fixed. It can be used to run any 3ph machine that fits within the max power of the unit on 240vac.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
If the Proto trac is 120v for everything, servo drive, controller etc., You are good to go. Run the spindle motor on the VFD and make some chips. As far as the bracket, contact Proto trac, they may have one at a reasonable cost. Second, Ebay is a good resource. Third, repair it yourself. The tough part is after you weld it(?), machining it straight again.
Good luck, and keep the pictures coming as you get it going again!
You will have to contact southwesternindustries.com and they will have the parts. Good guys to deal with but a little pricey. We ran Bridgeport / Proto conversion in our tool room.
As an example of how they price items....in the control box on the side there is a computer disc drive for their software. We had one go bad....$699 from Southwestern. We robbed one out of a trash computer (3 1/2" disc drive) and it was a direct fit. Total price....$free.
Found this page....It's not for the PLUS, but it's for the M2 and M3 which I believe use the same X-Axis end brackets. Pricey though at $185. https://www.buytrakparts.com/PublicStore/catalog/Retrofit-ProtoTRAK-M2-and-M3,186.aspx
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