Broken AC

[Beerman]

Hi,

Woke up a few minutes ago to what appears to be a broken AC. Wife said unit was operating fine when she went to bed at 5:30am, est. She woke me up at 9 est to tell me there's a problem.

Unit is a Rheem brand. Condenser fan is running, but no air is coming out of any of the vents. Turned slider switch on thermostat to "off" and tried turning the "fan" from "auto" to "on" and still nothing coming out of the vents.

I understand there's a squirrel cage fan, separate from the condenser fan, that's what actually circulates air in these things. I'm guessing that the squirrel cage is not turning, for whatever reason.

Anyone got any suggestions on how to fix this thing, or at least diagnose it? I DO NOT have the funds at the moment to sink much money into it.


TIA


Beerman

 

[Beerman]

Forgot to add, that when I checked the air filter, it seemed damp and extremely dirty. Not sure if this means the coils are frozen, which I understand is a common problem.



Beerman

 

[rickairmedic]

Beerman you may have gotten lucky so to speak . The dirty filter may have been your problem. Yes most likely the coils froze over . You can do a couple things now if you have gas heat turn it on for 10-15 minutes to quick thaw the coils . You can do the same with electric heat actualy especially if you have a heat pump. The other option is to simply turn the fan to on and wait . A very dirty filter will restrict airflow and cause the coil to freeze over ( this can also be caused by low freon so keep an eye on it once thawed to make sure it doesnt freeze up again).


Rick

 

[Beerman]

Thanks Rick. Let me pick your brain further. I went outside to the unit (I think it's a heat pump-it's right up against the house), and pulled the air filter half out. I had my wife, who was on the inside, turn the slider switch on the thermostat from "auto" to "on". No air then came out of the vent and I didn't hear anything come on as I stood there by the unit. If it was just the coils that were frozen, when she turned the fan switch to "on", shouldn't I have heard the squirrel cage come on? And shouldn't have some air come out of the vents on the inside?

TIA again Rick.

In case you can't tell, I'm going back and forth looking at U-tube videos trying to get this corrected.


Beerman

 

[rickairmedic]

Beerman the squirel cage is inside an insulated portion of the cabinet if it is a package unit ( with everything outside ). You may not hear the fan kick on and if the coils are frozen she wont feel any air either . Follow my earlier instructions and you should have AC in about 20 minutes if not then you may have a bad blower motor but I would bet you just have a frozen coil right now .


I tell all my customers when they get their light/gas bill and go change the filter in otherwords change them once a month and you wont have this problem again.


Rick

 

[Beerman]

Ok, Tech just left. Bad capacitor to the fan motor. Bill to the tune of $260. Can't complain too loud, since the guy came right over, but thought the price for the part was a little high (100.00 or so).

Glad I got him, but next time, I'll check this myself.

Thanks again for the help, Rick.



Beerman

 

[pattenp]

That gets me what they charge for a capacitor. A buddy of mine had the same issue and it was to the tune of $285 of which $120 was the capacitor. I've replaced capacitors several times on AC fan motors and not one of them cost more than $30 to $40.

 

[green.bubbly]

Yeah, screw me on the labor, I can accept that, but not on the parts. I don't mind paying good money to get a guy out early on a Saturday morning but I hate paying triple for a part that can be picked up any where.

 

[rickairmedic]

You cant walk into Homie desperate or Lowered expectations and buy a capacitor . I dont charge as much as quoted here for capacitors but you can bet I mark them up and my labor is the same 24/7/365. I love guys who get screwed on parts fel free to open a business and see how quick you figure out ( you either mark up parts and **** and pillage on labor ) or you file bankrupcy and go back to workin for the man .


Beerman good to hear you got it fixed and honestly I probably couldnt have hooked you up with a capacitor ( without getting robbed ) before monday .



Rick

 

[jimsjinx]

To be fair to the trades, think about it a minute. The situation, at its most basic level, was that you didn't have a clue to what was wrong with your A/C. This guy came out and tested it, and found the problem. Then, some day earlier, he travelled to a warehouse somewhere, and bought the parts to stock his truck. He keeps the parts safe in his van for God knows how long, but he had it when he needed it. Hell yes I mark up my parts/hardware. I have to FIND it, GO GET IT, PAY for it,know where and howto install it, and if it fails, I have to replace it. So I don't think it's a sin to mark up your stock. I feel that we Americans want "cheap". So that's what we get. Wal_Mart ring a bell? Sorry bout the rant, but the consumer has to start understanding the fact that we tradesmen are in it for a living. I don't think goudging the customer is needed if you price your labor right,however. Just like going to the doctor. SOMEBODDY'S got to pay him/her for that education, office, malpractice insurance, phones, etc. So we pay a couple hundred bucks for them to talk to us for 3 minutes! JMHO jimsjinx

 

[pattenp]

I think it is reasonable for a business to mark up prices on parts, actually I think it's expected. But to take a part that they got wholesale and mark it up 300% is a bit much. Like it or not, I know it comes down to what the market will support.

 

[DoyleDee]

The automotive market is no different either..... another reason I work on and repair all that I can. I do commercial maintenance for a big corporation.... so I have to know.(and the fact I enjoy fixing things myself)

 

[rickairmedic]

I think it is reasonable for a business to mark up prices on parts, actually I think it's expected. But to take a part that they got wholesale and mark it up 300% is a bit much. Like it or not, I know it comes down to what the market will support.

Funny enough I let a buddy get a blower motor and other needed parts this week on one of my accounts . I showed him later that day what he would have paid the supply house " retail " if I had not let him use my account . Lets just say even after I undercharged him $50.00 to install it he was still ahead over $150.00.


I will say yet again I challenge anybody who thinks they are getting robbed to go out and open your own business and try to do it " your way " with " Reasonable labor rates and lightly marked up parts " . $I guarantee you will be bqankrupt within 6 months .


You will find most of us in the " trades " are just trying to eek out a living and survive out here .


Rick

 

[HVAC Phil]

I think it is reasonable for a business to mark up prices on parts, actually I think it's expected. But to take a part that they got wholesale and mark it up 300% is a bit much. Like it or not, I know it comes down to what the market will support.

We mark up the price to what makes us money. I may sell you a part on my truck that i paid for 3 mos ago. I've already paid for it. This way, when i come to a customers house on a sat or sun, i have the part. We do this for the customers, so they get equipt fixed NOW!

$100 for a cap it what i charge day in and day out. So does everybody else i know in the business. It's how we make money. Everyone cries and moans "the HVAC guys are ripping us off". It's called earning a living. Ever go to a bar??? Why do they charge $4 for a beer when you can buy it yourself for $1. Cost of doing business. Nobody ******* and moans about that.

 

[jimsjinx]

That's exactly right! No one ******* about the doctor charging you 200 bucks for 3 minutes and a prescription that may or may not work. I don't like being ripped off either, but I do understand the basics of running a busness. Buy low and sell high. *****, but I didn't start this system! jimsjinx

 

[HoseB]

This same thing just happened to me. I self-diagnosed and purchased the capacitor from a local supply house. Cost? $1.00. I asked my buddy, an A/C tech how much this repair would have cost had I called him. "$219.00" he quoted.

I understand, though, as I'm also in a service industry. Perhaps I should switch to the A/C industry...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The automotive market is no different either..... another reason I work on and repair all that I can. I do commercial maintenance for a big corporation.... so I have to know.(and the fact I enjoy fixing things myself)

The automotive market is different. Most shops don't stock much more than a few filters and some oil. Every part they need for a job, they call their parts supplier and get "just in time", and its usually delivered by the parts store's parts runner in a small car or Ranger PU. The shop or garage does not have money ******* in sitting inventory, and therefore they don't have any reason to mark up the part past retail or enough to cover the hassle factor of calling to order it.

The guy on the service truck with a parts inventory, and being ready to fix it, thats different.

Charles

 

[stevefasano]

removed due to

 

[rickairmedic]

This same thing just happened to me. I self-diagnosed and purchased the capacitor from a local supply house. Cost? $1.00. I asked my buddy, an A/C tech how much this repair would have cost had I called him. "$219.00" he quoted.

I understand, though, as I'm also in a service industry. Perhaps I should switch to the A/C industry...

LOL dont do it . I live in a basic mid 60's brick ranch 1300 sf . I am not livin the BIG life that everybody thinks us HVAC owner/techs live. I struggle every winter to keep the bills paid and if I had a bad summer then things are gonna get tight in the winter . We dont have a bazillion bucks stashed away in an offshore account we are just regular folks trying to get by in this economy just like most everybody else .


Rick

 

[domain]

LOL dont do it . I live in a basic mid 60's brick ranch 1300 sf . I am not livin the BIG life that everybody thinks us HVAC owner/techs live. I struggle every winter to keep the bills paid and if I had a bad summer then things are gonna get tight in the winter . We dont have a bazillion bucks stashed away in an offshore account we are just regular folks trying to get by in this economy just like most everybody else .


Rick

+1. When I was training as a service tech, I noticed that Hvac guys get paid decent, but for the labor, overtime, on-call, that they have to deal with on the day in and day out, they are UNDERPAID. Also, just because a tech charges you 100 bucks for a cap plus service call, the profit gets passed on to the company not him. My .02

 

[HoseB]

LOL dont do it.

Oh, God no. I couldn't imagine (here in FL) crawling in attics and standing on roofs all day in the heat trying to remove/replace air handler's, etc. Gotta be a lot tougher than I am to do that sheet!

 

[CarCrafter]

The automotive market is different. Most shops don't stock much more than a few filters and some oil. Every part they need for a job, they call their parts supplier and get "just in time", and its usually delivered by the parts store's parts runner in a small car or Ranger PU. The shop or garage does not have money ******* in sitting inventory, and therefore they don't have any reason to mark up the part past retail or enough to cover the hassle factor of calling to order it.

The guy on the service truck with a parts inventory, and being ready to fix it, thats different.

Charles

Not sure I can agree entirely with you here Charles. I have over $300 in oil filters, over a thousand in 5w30 alone, another $100 or so in wiper blades, another $90 in replacement bulbs. Since I don't like waiting for the parts store to deliver when THEY get around to it and tie up my bay/ lift, I have another $500 or so in brake pads... lets not even get into the other chemicals...

 

[brewchief]

Not sure I can agree entirely with you here Charles. I have over $300 in oil filters, over a thousand in 5w30 alone, another $100 or so in wiper blades, another $90 in replacement bulbs. Since I don't like waiting for the parts store to deliver when THEY get around to it and tie up my bay/ lift, I have another $500 or so in brake pads... lets not even get into the other chemicals...

The company I work for has 4 service trucks, each one has between 5K and 10k in parts on it depending on the season plus about 30k in parts at the shop and we still run across stuff we have to order.

 

[Brickhouse]

Had a similar situation recently. A/C squirrel cage fan was running, outside fan was humming. Called my HVAC connection (my brother) and of course no answer. Consulted some on-line websites... all pointed to "the dual capacitor". Oh and by the way this was a 90+ degree day at 3:25pm on Friday. Called Ace hardware "Sure we have a couple of types" rush down there and "Who told you that, we don't carry those". Rushed over to the local box store electrical department.. no go again, but the guy in the electrical section is an electrician, whom I have dealt wth in the past, he said go to so and so electrical supply house. It's now 4:25pm hauled a$$ over to the supply house expecting them to be closed, they were open! Not only that but they were not busy and the people behind the counter were laughing and pleasent. The guy allowed me to pay the cash contractor price $13.53. Not sure exactly what my point is but it is really hard for me to call companies to fix things that I own.

 

[mrb]

as far as the price for the cap, youre not paying $100 for the cap -youre paying for the service tech to buy it, hold onto it until you need it, and bring it to you on demand.

 

[Brickhouse]

mrb- Totally understand. Our family is living on a shoestring budget these days.