Broken Antique Broiler Element - HELP!!!

[Lassen Forge]

Heres a fun one... Went to preheat my 1946 Monarch electric over wood oven the other night, and saw a pair of sparks from inside the oven. Shut everything off, and the curlicue heating element had burned through at where one end of the element straightens out and goes into a terminal block.

I was able to shuffle the long coiling spring to give enough "wire" to reach the block, IF I can get the curlicue straightened. Unfortunately, the first time I tried I broke off the piece I was straightening...

I took it to the appliance store downtown (that said "no problem"), they took one look and said "We can't fix anything that old..." (wimps!!!)

So the question is this - How do I get this ancient and brittle element soft enough to straighten out the end to hook up to the terminal block? Should I try my pencil torch, or a lighter, or throw in the towel? I'm about ready to start playing, but a replacement element for this thing is apparently made of Unobtanium. Or does someone know of a source for this curlicue heating element wire (it's like the old bathroom heaters from the 20's...)??

I'd rather not have to replace the stove, as it's also the wood heat for that part of the house... and going gas over wood (like a 40's wedgewood) ain't cheap... but thanksgiving is coming. Yiiii!!!!

 

[brewchief]

Supco makes elements like that for duct heaters, they may or may not work in your application but it would be worth a look and maybe a phone call.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Supco makes elements like that for duct heaters, they may or may not work in your application but it would be worth a look and maybe a phone call.

I may have to do that... 2000 watts at 230 volts. Should be easy as restoring a WW2 battle tank. (ha ha ha)

My "Google Fu" tells me Monarch had a huge govt contract in 1943, and again in 1945 for Oak Ridge Tennessee and Alamogordo NM for some few thousand or so stoves... something about worker housing for the Manhattan Engineering District...

Now if I could only find the damn heating element for it!

I'm going to take it to the forge, try a pencil flame and hot pliers to try to straighten the element end... Wish I knew if this would work or not ahead of time.

Never a dull moment!

 

[justsam]

You may be able to heat up the end to anneal it a bit and then be able to bend it. Can you fashion another heating element out of some nichrome (NiCr) wire?

Does the heating element work off of 240 or 120? You might be able to repurpose something from an old waffle iron or something similar.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Picture?

 

[Lassen Forge]

OK, it is done. For now it works.

I burned 3 1/2 inches of the original heating element (hopefully it doesn't cook the remaining NiCr wire) forking around with it... I *think* (and I'll know once we start putting the oven through its paces Thanksgiving) I figured out how to deal with this fragile, evil **** known as Nickel-Chromiium wire.

I don't want to lead my brethren here down a blind or destructive alley for their antique electrical heating elements... it took a metric F***load of propane heating the element AND the tools to the proper temp (and it's like 100F between s*** and shinola) but so far it took my line of 239.33 volts at 19.4 amps for 10 minutes, so I am hopeful I beat these bastages at their game.

Worse comes to worst... if I have to replace it (and I have 3 options within pick up range) I CAN swap out for a propane over wood Wedgewood or Spark stove (which WILL happen anyway, just now hopefully later)... but for now, unless I have another recreation of the 4th of July in my oven, we're good 2 go for Thanksgiving.

I *did* figure out how to bend that fracking NiCr wire... Trust me, unless you have an industrial oven it is a royal PITA. But... if someone is in a dire pinch I can (maybe) save you.

Amazing how panic makes you find a solution. Anyway, to my brothers on this list... THANK YOU!!! (And if it dies I'll let you know.. because we're all in this together!)

Susanne @ the Forge

 

[Norcal]

Got photos? Coiled element stock may still be available, but may require a bit of sleuthing.

 

[DenisG]

Here's one possible source:
http://www.keithcompany.com/fabrication-resistance-coil-heating-elements.html

 

[Lassen Forge]

OMG WOW!!!! I LOVE you guys!!!! I am hoping my mess works, but if it doesn't, I have an answer where to turn!!!

Awe-struck...
S@tF

 

[R.Anderson]

 

[6PTsocket]

It is not Unobtanium, it is Nichrome, a nickel chromium alloy that has been used in all kinds of heaters and toasters forever. It comes in round and flat cross sections in different gauges. In jr high, a million years ago, we made stoves in metal shop with coils of this stuff. I don't remember if we wound them. Measure the thickness and buy what you need. It comes on rolls. Wind it on a dowel. I have seen it on Amazon so I assume it is readily available. If it is very thick it might be harder to find, I have never bought any.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Lassen Forge]

Absolutely awesome, thank you!!!

 

[iron block]

I burned 3 1/2 inches of the original heating element (hopefully it doesn't cook the remaining NiCr wire) forking around with it...

If you want to splice in a bit of nichrome as an extension, the old borax-slurry-on-a-crimped-joint approach is worth a shot.

http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_appfaq5.html

I've got a repaired joint like that in a heater element that has worked for over a year. But yeah, nichrome is the pits to work with in general. Good for you on wrestling that broiler element to a standstill.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Calrod heating elements have solid wire at the ends that the wires attach to. Then the heating element is welded to the other end some 4 inches from the end so that heat is not transmitted to the terminal block as quickly. The heating element itself is covered with a layer of white ceramic and then a coating of iron that you see. Not much way to repair them but there are places that can build any type you need all they need is voltage,wattage length and shape. I have had them made for an old tray warmer that the original element was shorted to ground but would work except on GFCI that would trip.

 

[mnoeltne]

I found this place that rebuilds antique stove elements: http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/electricovenelements.htm

 

[rlitman]

It is not Unobtanium, it is Nichrome, a nickel chromium alloy that has been used in all kinds of heaters and toasters forever. It comes in round and flat cross sections in different gauges. In jr high, a million years ago, we made stoves in metal shop with coils of this stuff. I don't remember if we wound them. Measure the thickness and buy what you need. It comes on rolls. Wind it on a dowel. I have seen it on Amazon so I assume it is readily available. If it is very thick it might be harder to find, I have never bought any.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

+1

...
I *did* figure out how to bend that fracking NiCr wire... Trust me, unless you have an industrial oven it is a royal PITA...

NEW NiCr wire bends easily. Old wire is brittle, but it takes a while for the surface to oxidize before it becomes hard to re-bend. Don't believe me? Next time you're throwing out a hair dryer, you'll see that the wire can easily be pulled straight and reformed to your purposes.

As for splicing, I wonder if you could take it to a place that repairs batteries that has one of those tab spot welders, and weld on a piece of copper.

Calrod heating elements ...

But this is a coil, not a calrod.

 

[ard]

What an amazing thread....my first thought when I saw the title onthe main page was "Oh you will be SOL".

But, this IS GJ... some of the most resourceful people on the internet when it comes to the physical world.

 

[malibu101]

What an amazing thread....my first thought when I saw the title onthe main page was "Oh you will be SOL".

But, this IS GJ... some of the most resourceful people on the internet when it comes to the physical world.

Agreed on an amazing thread.
When I just read the OP my first thought was of nichrome wire. But it was already talked about with more detail than I knew.

I truly enjoy this forum more than anything else on the web and the experiences and knowledge shared here.

 

[6PTsocket]

If you do buy a roll of nichrome, use an ohm meter to measure the old coil and spool off an amount with the same resistance and you should have about the same amount of wire without uncoiling the old one to measure it. This is assuming you have bought the same gauge wire. Now wind it on a dowel and stretch it out. As another poster said, the old stuff is too brittle to mess with.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Lassen Forge]

Got it fixed, and (happy to say) it hasn't failed... the secret to straightening this brittle and nasty stuff is constant heat to red, little steps at a time, keeping it red hot while bending it in little tiny steps with an equally hot set of flatbill or needlenose pliers (to keep the NiCr wire from cooling while bending), allowing the wire to cool,reheating it without bending it, then letting it cool again, before starting the process all over. You do NOT want to bend it too fast or too far between steps as it will break... or try to bend it without it being red red hot and under heat.

It took about an hour to get the 3" "stub" I needed to rehook the wire up (each time I tried to rush it I broke off another coil), but once I figured it out it was easy. Slow, but easy.

I used a propane bernzomatic, as it's not too hot, not too cool... the only permanent damage was end of my narrow flatbill needle nose are now a pretty rainbow hue, but the stove works and works well...

 

[6PTsocket]

Glad to hear it. Good job. I always enjoy salvaging the old part and not having to replace it. If it breaks again you know what to do.

 

[Mofo]

Any idea what gauge of nichrome wire for a 3300w 220v broiler element? Is there a reason for it to be coiled? Couldn't it simply be run straight?

 

[nadogail]

Look into a “Restring Kit” for an Electric Clothes Dryer. Your local Appliance Parts Supply should stock them.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Zombie thread. I recognized it as it was one of mine. From 2016.

Signed up to the GJ, posted the question, and signed out all within 4 minutes... not to be seen since. Maybe he's fishing. Maybe his google-fu led him to this 7 year old thread... or... maybe it's an AI bot??

Eff it. The coiled wire is to induce the proper length to give the proper resistance to heat up the wire to the correct temperature required for the job at hand. It also allows the wire to expand and contract at a determined rate to allow for support of the wire.

So no, you cannot use flat nichrome if the original app uses coils or vice versa. It will not only not give you proper heat, but will skew the thermostatic controls AND possibly short out when it expands outside its proper channels. When I did the repairs SEVEN YEARS AGO I was working with limited resources of living in the middle of nowhere - you could not get the original curley wire new, and was contemplating a trip to the "big city" to the re-cycle store in Berkeley to buy old wall heaters to recoup the curly nichrome wire from them.

If I had to do it again, that's what I'd do.

The real question is will OP log back in to find the answer, or will it just dangle there like ripe blackberries at the end of a prickly vine? guess we shall see...

 

[Mofo]

Found these guys for open coil, ni-chrome heating elements

https://morelectricheating.com/coilhd10009-l22-10c-n6-25id-10ft-nichrome-coil

 

[Mofo]

Zombie thread. I recognized it as it was one of mine. From 2016.

Signed up to the GJ, posted the question, and signed out all within 4 minutes... not to be seen since. Maybe he's fishing. Maybe his google-fu led him to this 7 year old thread... or... maybe it's an AI bot??

Eff it. The coiled wire is to induce the proper length to give the proper resistance to heat up the wire to the correct temperature required for the job at hand. It also allows the wire to expand and contract at a determined rate to allow for support of the wire.

So no, you cannot use flat nichrome if the original app uses coils or vice versa. It will not only not give you proper heat, but will skew the thermostatic controls AND possibly short out when it expands outside its proper channels. When I did the repairs SEVEN YEARS AGO I was working with limited resources of living in the middle of nowhere - you could not get the original curley wire new, and was contemplating a trip to the "big city" to the re-cycle store in Berkeley to buy old wall heaters to recoup the curly nichrome wire from them.

If I had to do it again, that's what I'd do.

The real question is will OP log back in to find the answer, or will it just dangle there like ripe blackberries at the end of a prickly vine? guess we shall see...

Google brought me here also. Even if the OP is not around, I've had good luck with knowledgeable folks willing to help. I just posted a link to a heating element supplier that I think will work.

 

[no704]

Hard saying not knowing, but it sounds akin to a kiln element.

 

[The Cobbler]

I remember as a kid playing with the heater wire out of a toaster or something. I was amazed as a kid.
yeah, still doesn't take a lot to amuse me