Broken chuck in drill press shank stuck

[Heel2toe]

Hello,

A buddy of mine gave me this drill press but as the title states the chuck has snapped off and the shank is stuck. I know the drill press isnt anything special but how would I go about removing the broken part so I can install a replacement chuck?

I've gotten away all these years without a drill press so I don't need one nor care to really spend money on one at this time if this thing isnt salvageable.

But it would be nice to have one and Im sure I could find a use for it; Im just not sure how to attack this problem? Is there a trick to getting the shank out? Any pointers to assist with this would be much appreciated. I can snap some more detailed pics if needbe but here are a couple quick shots I took so you can see what Im talking about.

Thanks in advance for all the feedback!

 

[sickpup]

Wind it down and see if there is a cut out for putting a drift in to remove the chuck end?

 

[Heel2toe]

Im not well versed on drill presses so pardon the newb question but when you say to put a drift in, do you mean a wedge like I've seen people use to remove chucks?

I can snap some photos later when I get home from work what it looks like if I wind it down.

 

[sickpup]

Pretty much yes. I think all of the drill presses I've used have a cut out for this.

 

[Heel2toe]

I will take a look tonight; thanks for the info. Assuming it has a slit for the removal tool is there something I potentially have kicking around my garage that I can use to remove it or is the purchase of a removal tool a must? Ive seen people use a block of wood but without the chuck that obviously won't work. Can I jam a flathead screwdriver in there or something? I dont want to sounds like a cheapskate but going back to the fact that I got this thing for free after I factor in a new chuck and potentially removal tool I might be better off just picking up a decent one on craigslist which means I probably wont even bother. Id just love to get this thing operable on the cheap if possible to salvage the thing.

 

[sickpup]

The drift is just that, a triangular bit of steel. Easy enough to make from a piece of 1/4 or so flat plat or whatever you can find.

 

[Heel2toe]

Gotcha. So I guess all that would be needed is something triangular or wedge shaped, whatever you wanna call it. I guess insert it and give it a whack and the wedge pushes the shank out. Seems easy enough. Now I just gotta see if it has that slit in it. Also, wonder is the thing has a set screw or something like that or is the taper is all it needs to hold the thing in there.

Either way thanks for your feedback. I guess this could be quite simple. I was thinking I needed to drill it out or weld on a nut or something and use a slide hammer...

 

[larry_g]

I suspect that there is no Morse Taper in that spindle. I suspect that the spindle is broken and will have to be replaced. If you have the chuck sometimes they say what the mount taper is on them. Probably a JT33, Jacobs Taper.

Good Luck

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Heel2toe]

Thanks for chiming in. What do you mean by the fact that there probably isn't a morse taper in the spindle? If it is indeed a jacobs taper why would that translate to a broken spindle?

Ill have to look closely at the plate riveted on the machine as I recall seeing something that mentioned what kind of chuck it has. FWIW the broken chuck had a logo on it that said rabbit.

 

[pstemari]

An integral JT33 spindle wouldn't have any arbor. The male taper would be on the end of the spindle.

In your picture, it looks like there's a chuck arbor in a hole. If it had an integral JT33 that snapped off, the stub would be smaller than what I see in the pic.

If you extend the quill, you should see a slot in the side for a drift. Insert a drift and whack it with a hammer and the broken arbor should pop out.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Heel2toe]

As someone who has no prior knowledge with drill press's, chucks, arbors, quills etc. I feel like Im getting great info and I do appreciate everyone offering assistance; Im just not intelligent enough to honestly fully comprehend what youre saying haha.

I think for starters I need to take some better pictures when I get home and post them as I snapped those quickly upstairs where there isnt great lighting. I can also snap a picture of the broken chuck. You can see it on the bottom lefthand corner of the 2nd pic. What is interesting is that it has a nut (presumably some sort of lock nut) on it.

I thought the arbors were attached to the chuck and the whole assembly is inserted into the spindle? If that not the case or does that only cover certain scenarios and there are cases where you insert the specific arbor into the spindle and then you connect the chuck to the arbor?

It seems at this point without me confirming whether there is a slot to insert a drift all of this is purely speculation at this point. So I guess I need to find that out and I plan to post some better pictures tonight. The more I type this the more Im realizing that I don't have the slightest clue about these things haha. But it's great that you'll are working with me and trying your best to assist, I really appreciate it.

 

[larry_g]

http://www.victornet.com/reference/Drill_Chuck_Mounting.html

The above links give you some basic information. The first is showing the drift and using it to remove a Morse taper, The second shows the different tapers with a Morse to JT adapter. But if you read the verbiage just above the diagram it tells you that on a lot of small machines the JT is ground into the spindle. That is what I suspect you have.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[pstemari]

The arbor is pretty simple. Just a steel shaft with tapers on both ends. One end goes in the chuck, the other in the spindle, and it's held in place by friction.

Not all spindles use arbors, though. Cheaper drill presses have a Jacobs taper, usually a jt33, right on the end of the spindle.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Heel2toe]

Wow thanks again for the info guys! That second link with the picture I think just summed up everything I needed to know and now I think Im picking up what you're putting down.

So there is a good change that my drill press doesnt have a morse taper as that part as you put it is ground into the spindle. It however would still have a jacobs taper which is what the actual chuck would fit up into the chuck being the female or receiving end so to speak. If thats the case then my drill press wouldnt have a slit to insert a quill to remove it as its one piece which would then mean that I would have to replace the entire spindle not just the taper.

I think Im starting to get it now haha. Not that its all that complex; Im just not familiar with all the terminology as this is new to me. Like I said I've gotten away all these years without one and relying on cordless and corded drills. My knowledge before this morning on chucks was that they hold bits and some are tool less and some require a key. Like most things in life there is way more too it.

Given that fingers crossed my machine has a slit in it and the taper is removable. That seems like the cheapest option. If it needs a spindle the machine is probably useless I'd imagine as who knows if I could even find the part needed and if it would be cost prohibitive.

 

[Heel2toe]

More pictures...I didnt see a slot to pop the thing out but it certainly looks as though there is an actual arbor. I popped this out of the chuck after tightening the nut. I also included a picture of the tag. I believe it says J7 #33. Thoughts?

 

[Murphy4570]

You'll have to disassemble the quill and see what you're working with. It is probably a solid quill, which means that the Jacobs taper that is broken off was integral to the quill.

 

[ssdave]

This may be hard to do. It looks to me like the arbor snapped at the groove that was machined in it to use a vee shaped wedge to pop the arbor out from the shaft. That's how my Atlas drill press is set up. Or, as mentioned above, maybe it was integral to the quill.

If it doesn't also have a slot cut in the shaft to allow the arbor to be wedged out, or if the shaft isn't hollow all the way through to allow you to pound it out from the top, your options get pretty small.

The things that I see that could help would be penetrating oil, and maybe heating the shaft to expand it. If you had the shaft out of the machine, you could slam it down onto a wood block and hope the inertia pulls the arbor. Particularly after you used penetrating oil and heated the outside of the shaft quickly.

Or, use a cobolt drill bit to drill into the arbor, and tap it to accept a bolt. Then, use a puller to pull on the arbor.

 

[paulsomlo]

It looks like you're dead in the water - the part that you're holding in your hand used to be part of the spindle that you see inside the inner race of the bearing. The nut most likely functions as a device for chuck removal.

It's an inexpensive drill press, and I doubt that you'll find a replacement spindle for it. And it's probably not worth the time and money.

 

[larry_g]

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...e-drill-press-to-vfd-controlled-beauty.44670/

http://www.machinistblog.com/restoring-a-craftsman-15″-drill-press/

http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/drill_presses_chucks.htm

The above links have some information you may leverage to your machine. One with the dissembled quill shows the spindle with the Morse taper and ejection slot.

All that said I agree with Paul above. I bought one of those new for 30-40 bucks a lot of years ago. Today they can be had in the $50-80 range, new.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[gungatim]

have you extended the quill and looked for the slot yet?

that looks like a typical run of the mill Taiwan import drill press. every one I have seen has a setup like this pic. it probably snapped after the chuck and you just need to tap out the tapered shaft.

if not, you can sell it for parts, people break the tables and are always looking for those...

 

[Heel2toe]

have you extended the quill and looked for the slot yet?

that looks like a typical run of the mill Taiwan import drill press. every one I have seen has a setup like this pic. it probably snapped after the chuck and you just need to tap out the tapered shaft.

if not, you can sell it for parts, people break the tables and are always looking for those...

Thanks again for all the feedback. To answer some questions that were asked, yes I did extend the quill and look for the slot to which I didnt see one. There was a slit going down the whole side however I believe that is uses to locate the quill as it goes downward. Its not like there was a slit where I could physically stick a wedge in there as the slit essentially is a 1/16" deep before there is inner metal. Maybe if I could rotate it to line it up but the slit is not like what Im seeing in pictures online.

I do believe it is a Taiwan import drill press actually. But from what I've learned from this thread the question is whether the arbor is one with the spindle or it it attaches to the spindle via a morse taper?

You'll have to disassemble the quill and see what you're working with. It is probably a solid quill, which means that the Jacobs taper that is broken off was integral to the quill.

Unfortunately that may be the case. I plan to take it further apart and inspect.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...e-drill-press-to-vfd-controlled-beauty.44670/

http://www.machinistblog.com/restoring-a-craftsman-15″-drill-press/

http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/drill_presses_chucks.htm

The above links have some information you may leverage to your machine. One with the dissembled quill shows the spindle with the Morse taper and ejection slot.

All that said I agree with Paul above. I bought one of those new for 30-40 bucks a lot of years ago. Today they can be had in the $50-80 range, new.

lg
no neat sig line

Thanks again. Yeah it is a cheap drill press agreed, but given to me for free so I can't complain and am at the very least attempting to salvage it.

This may be hard to do. It looks to me like the arbor snapped at the groove that was machined in it to use a vee shaped wedge to pop the arbor out from the shaft. That's how my Atlas drill press is set up. Or, as mentioned above, maybe it was integral to the quill.

If it doesn't also have a slot cut in the shaft to allow the arbor to be wedged out, or if the shaft isn't hollow all the way through to allow you to pound it out from the top, your options get pretty small.

The things that I see that could help would be penetrating oil, and maybe heating the shaft to expand it. If you had the shaft out of the machine, you could slam it down onto a wood block and hope the inertia pulls the arbor. Particularly after you used penetrating oil and heated the outside of the shaft quickly.

Or, use a cobolt drill bit to drill into the arbor, and tap it to accept a bolt. Then, use a puller to pull on the arbor.

If it is removable then I think youre exactly right in regards to where it snapped and the intended method of removal. I think it would make sense to fully disassemble the thing and see if the shaft is hollow. If it is then it should be easy to pop out. There is also what you mentioned regarding heat and or drilling and tapping.

It looks like you're dead in the water - the part that you're holding in your hand used to be part of the spindle that you see inside the inner race of the bearing. The nut most likely functions as a device for chuck removal.

It's an inexpensive drill press, and I doubt that you'll find a replacement spindle for it. And it's probably not worth the time and money.

That's exactly what Im trying to determine. The nut functioned exactly how you described as thats how I seperated the chuck from the broken part last night.

Unfortunately I think you think you along with a few other folks might be right about the arbor being 1 piece with the spindle. If that is the case then Im SOL and not worth sinking money into it should I even be able to find the part.

The thing that gets me is that it appears that the broken piece is removable. But I guess the more I think about it of course its a different part from the bearing or else it wouldnt be able to spin. But the million dollar question is is the arbor a part of the spindle or not? If it is then it's junk and if not it seems a new arbor is all I need to get back in business.

 

[gungatim]

it looked that way to me in the pic: that it is a separate removable piece. try looking up a manual for a discontinued older HF drill press. the current ones are different, but the older green ones I bet you could find the same model they sold under their Central name.

like this one: http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/38000-38999/38119.pdf
bet you need 4b on the diagram, item # 0803001B. they may still be able to get it...

 

[rsanter]

What about looking for another one of them on CL? Perhaps one with a broken table orbad motor and combine the two to make a good one?

Bob

 

[Milton Shaw]

If the shaft is hollow you might could punch it out from the top with a piece of round bar stock, sort of like you loosen the R-8 on a Bridgeport..

 

[Heel2toe]

it looked that way to me in the pic: that it is a separate removable piece. try looking up a manual for a discontinued older HF drill press. the current ones are different, but the older green ones I bet you could find the same model they sold under their Central name.

like this one: http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/38000-38999/38119.pdf
bet you need 4b on the diagram, item # 0803001B. they may still be able to get it...

Yeah Im picking up what you're putting down. Ill look at the tag again tonight and see if I can make out a model #. I snapped a picture but it came out pretty crappy bc the tag is all banged up. But it is one of the Taiwan made so I could see them sharing many of the same parts. Who knows...But a parts diagram would tell me exactly what it's comprised of before I take it apart.

What about looking for another one of them on CL? Perhaps one with a broken table orbad motor and combine the two to make a good one?

Bob

Also an option that I've considered. Smaller comparable drill presses are pretty cheap anyway ~$50 so it's not like were talking big money to replace this thing, granted if I were to buy a replacement I'd probably target something a little nicer just because. But as I mentioned I got this for free so if I can mend it for IDK $10 or $20 bucks then Im game.

If the shaft is hollow you might could punch it out from the top with a piece of round bar stock, sort of like you loosen the R-8 on a Bridgeport..

Yeah if I disassemble the thing and find it to be hollow then Im in business and that should be simple to pop right out. But if not drill tape bolt and slide hammer seems like the next best option. Well, I can try just smacking it on a piece of wood or something along with some Kroil and heat.

Is the arbor made out of steel you guys think? If so welding on a bolt to the bottom would probably be much easier than drilling and tapping. Plus the heat could help break the seize assuming is it seized in there. Not to mention the irony of drilling out something on a drill press. Man using a drill press for that would be perfect haha!

 

[gungatim]

don't start beating on it to get it out, look at that HF manual I posted. you can clearly see the part the chuck broke off. it is threaded at the top. i'll be a whole kennedy half-dollar (insert brady bunch theme here) that is how yours is setup. look at page 18.

 

[Heel2toe]

Thanks yeah I saw that diagram but I dont follow how you came to the conclusion that its threaded in there...item 11b shows a retaining ring but that sounds more like a circlip or something like that vs being threaded. Not trying to be argumentative as I do appreciate your continued feedback, Im just not following.

Regardless, I think I just need to pull the whole thing apart and it'll be obvious at that point.

 

[gungatim]

you're right, I mis read it, thought #11 was a nut. looks like it's a ring. if it was a nut it would draw it in tight, so it may still be a press fit, hard to see. just didn't want you beating on it with a hammer only to find it is fastened to the pulley drive spline somehow...

imagine it will make sense when you get it apart....good luck!!

 

[Heel2toe]

Yeah that's what Im thinking at this point too that it'll come together as I pull it apart...arggg not sure that sentence makes sense, oh well.

And haha yeah I wasn't planning on just going at it with a hammer but like most of my projects it may end up that way. And of course when in doubt get a bigger hammer.

Thanks again I'll keep you'll posted!

 

[Heel2toe]

Well...guess I should have just ripped it apart in the first place. So in the end the arbor is attached to the spindle. Ill see if I can find the part and if not guess Ill strip the thing for parts. Thanks again to everyone that chimed in to assist. But hey I learned a bunch about drill presses so thats an added bonus.

 

[Heel2toe]

Bumping this back up for visibility. Apparently GJ is a very active forum so these things get buried.

Anyway, after searching the model number Im not seeing anything in regards to sourcing replacement parts. Makes me wonder if the spindle for that HF unit linked above is the same part? Its hard to tell from the pictures if the part is splined or not...Im guessing it would have to be as Im not sure how else it would transfer the power.

I think the best course of action is to find a replacement on CL and I've started to look just out of curiosity. But makes me wonder if that spindle is a common part found on a lot of other crappy drill press's...

 

[gungatim]

glad you got it apart. no guarantee it is the same part, but it probably is. but really no way of knowing.

now if you can't get the replacement, let's hear how other guys would fix this. I don't mean fine a used one for parts, what would you do?

put the shaft in a lathe and counter bore then weld a new end on? thread the end for a shaft with a taper?

I think I would try and weld it. maybe lose some length, but it's just an import drill press, not a mill...

 

[crguy]

put the shaft in a lathe and counter bore then weld a new end on? thread the end for a shaft with a taper?

I think I would try and weld it. maybe lose some length, but it's just an import drill press, not a mill...

Pretty much a total waste of time and money. If you weld it, it won't be straight, so then you'd have to remachine it, etc., etc.

 

[Heel2toe]

Yeah I don't see how I could possibly salvage the thing. If I were to weld around the circumference it would then need to be turned down in a lathe at which point I'd hope I welded it hot enough to get good penetration or else once its machined down there is nothing holding the 2 parts together. But all of this welding and machining is over my head to be honest. I can stick 2 pieces of metal together but thats about it haha.

So I think its either find a cheap similiar spindle that'll work or find a different drill press. Does anyone own a basic bench top drill press that they wouldnt mind pulling apart to take some measurements for me? It actually came apart quite simply; I had no idea that's how they even came apart.

I think at the end of the day if I can source a part for $20 then its worth it. Anything more than that and Im better off just picking up something on CL.