Broken door spring

[Innovate1]

Closing the door with opener and it sounded like it crushed or hit something just as it was almost closed. One door spring broke. It's a 8 x 18 CHI door that is about 16 years old. I punched the details into ddmgaragedoors.com to see what was there. Kind of strange I was only able to enter up to 4 struts in the spring finder tool when there are 5 panels to my door and there is a strut on each one. Saw that there were several steps of increasing life. Thinking I will go for the first step of increased life of about 20k cycles (vs about 12k for standard).

Have a note in to ddm about the struts question since I know it affects the door weight and spring strength. Will call the dealer on Monday. Thinking I may just let them do it but wondering if they can supply the increased life springs. They have generally been good but recently when I asked about putting a larger strut on the top of a 12' wide door to reduce thermal bowing they said something about using a strut not oked by the manufacturer would void the warranty. It already has a 2" wide strut but bowed enough in the cold winter (space is heated) to create a gap at the seal in the center. They added a 2" strut to the 9' wide door without charge for the same issue since they are new and I know they have 3" struts on their wider doors - they are on the door that the spring broke on. Guessing they just may not have had the needed strut on the truck so were reluctant to make another trip. Rather than argue with them I am thinking of just buying the larger strut at Menards, drilling matching holes and installing it myself. Just seemed bogus they brought up the warranty issue.

I have read lots of people have worked with springs and some were for high lift conversions. I have adjusted the springs before so I could do it but thinking since this is just spring replacement it may be worth it to just have them do it.

 

[nadogail]

Replacing a door spring, without help, is not something that should be done by an Amateur. After you have done a few you are elevated to Semi-Pro.

 

[Innovate1]

Replacing a door spring, without help, is not something that should be done by an Amateur. After you have done a few you are elevated to Semi-Pro.

I understand the danger. I have adjusted the tension which I understand to be the most critical/dangerous step. I have lots of mechanical experience - some but not a lot with this.

So if an amateur shouldn't do it and I don't know anyone to help that has I suppose my chance of every being able to do this is nil? I appreciate your cautions but I don't accept that I shouldn't ever do this without help. Others have after reading and watching videos about it.

Still, I am inclined to have it done just because I think it will be worth the cost to get it done as I have many other projects. I will know the cost tomorrow.

 

[kelpaso1]

I paid an installer $120 labor to do mine. Had it done in 45 mins. Well worth it. I've done it myself before but took me 3 times as long.

 

[LeonardY]

I had a guy come out replace the spring for around $160. He tightened and adjusted the door. He was here for less than an hour. It would have taken me a day to figure it all out and then another 4 hours to do it. Somethings are better left to pros.

 

[Innovate1]

I paid an installer $120 labor to do mine. Had it done in 45 mins. Well worth it. I've done it myself before but took me 3 times as long.

Yep. That's exactly why I am thinking of having them do it.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Same here. Spring broke on the one door probably opened 10 times in 30 years. I was in garage when it broke, didn't know what it was at the time sounded like someone running around upstairs!
Installer came out, total bill was $175 parts+labor. Took him 45 minutes also. Quite a job, but he does it all the time.
Door opens/closes like new.


Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

 

[n8n]

Real question is, tension or torsion? Former is easy as long as you take precautions, latter you should really have someone who knows what they're doing overseeing if this is your first time.

 

[Innovate1]

Torsion, although I would think they are both as dangerous as they would have to store the same amount of energy.

 

[firebirdparts]

Torsion, although I would think they are both as dangerous as they would have to store the same amount of energy.

The big difference (to me, an amateur) is that with a tension spring, it's totally slack every time the door is open, and you can get to it. Torsion is always installed wound, because you can't get to it when it's unwound.

FWIW I've got several wayne Daltons with the cute little torsion gearbox. They're sort of a third category. Hard to hurt yourself with that one, if not impossible.

 

[Innovate1]

Just talked to the local company. They said they cut them on site to match the door. I was a little surprised by that but it makes sense that they need to minimize inventory. Didn't even want to know which door as they installed them both years ago.

 

[Viper98912]

That's something I hadn't heard of before.

Nonetheless, even for the most experienced DIY's, I also recommend paying someone to do it. Having the winding rod slip out and having your finger/arm/face catch one of the tightening screws will completely mess you up permanently for life. There's two things I don't do: roofing and winding garage door springs.

The garage door company should be able to offer you a few different options for "longer" cycle springs. But I'd say 16 years was a pretty good first run, no?

 

[Innovate1]

That's something I hadn't heard of before.

Nonetheless, even for the most experienced DIY's, I also recommend paying someone to do it. Having the winding rod slip out and having your finger/arm/face catch one of the tightening screws will completely mess you up permanently for life. There's two things I don't do: roofing and winding garage door springs.

The garage door company should be able to offer you a few different options for "longer" cycle springs. But I'd say 16 years was a pretty good first run, no?

Pretty good I'd say. This is the door that gets used the most but we haven't parked a car inside for most of the time. Now that we have a detached garage for projects the cars will be inside more so I asked for increased cycles springs. That wasn't an issue either - apparently they stock springs in both standard and the first step in increased cycles. ddmgarage doors had about 5 steps in number of cycles with the higher steps getting long and heavy - there were some notes about extra torque tube supports for the biggest ones.

 

[Innovate1]

I arranged to work from home for the repair visit. They showed up and said the spring size is bigger than anything they have, the door is an older, heavier version (even though they still sell a door that looks the same with the same model number) and compared to todays doors it is closer to a commercial door. The springs are 40.5" long, 2.6" ID, wire size 0.285". He measured the wire size andchecked with the his shop who filled him in on the older door details and said he had smaller spring stock at the shop that would be standard number of cycles and could install it the next day or he could order stock for increased cycles but said it would be about $400 installed. The standard was about $225. He did note that some companies cut springs without regard to stress and number of cycles so they may get the door working right but the spring may fail early while his company takes those things into account. I tend to believe that but still a little miffed that they didn't want the door number when I called the first time and they they were surprised at what they found. They said even with the door number they wouldn't have been able to know what I had with a door this old (2004 install). I called ddmgaragedoors and explained the weight issue and they said the best would be to weigh the door (rather than using they spring finder tool that goes by the door model number) and gave me some ball park estimates on cost. Looks like for standard springs (assuming they are really equal and that's really in question IMHO) the cost would be about the same for springs or getting the local company to do the whole install. They upgraded springs would be about $100 more for the local company but well worth the trouble if they are really equivalent. He pointed to the springs on my old 9 x 8 door which are about half the diameter and said most springs today are more like that with two common sizes, both smaller than the big door has. They will be longer. And the wire size will be much smaller too. I could be wrong but putting the same force on a much smaller wire seems like it would be more stress and fail earlier but with more length the amount of flex is less so maybe that offsets it. I am waiting for price and lead time from the local company.

 

[kelpaso1]

They are the professionals, Just let them do their job without questioning them. That's what they get paid to do. Had mine replaced last year and the springs were different diameter and length but the door works fine. As for longentivity, well, we'll see. I open and close the door everyday and if I get ten years from the springs, i'm fine with that.

 

[CoogarXR]

I called a local company, they came out the same day and replaced both my springs (the broken one, and the probably soon-to-be-broken other one). I think it was about $200 for labor and both springs.

It was a load off my mind (pun totally intentional).

 

[paredown]

I arranged to work from home for the repair visit. They showed up and said the spring size is bigger than anything they have, the door is an older, heavier version (even though they still sell a door that looks the same with the same model number) and compared to todays doors it is closer to a commercial door. The springs are 40.5" long, 2.6" ID, wire size 0.285". He measured the wire size andchecked with the his shop who filled him in on the older door details and said he had smaller spring stock at the shop that would be standard number of cycles and could install it the next day or he could order stock for increased cycles but said it would be about $400 installed. The standard was about $225. He did note that some companies cut springs without regard to stress and number of cycles so they may get the door working right but the spring may fail early while his company takes those things into account. I tend to believe that but still a little miffed that they didn't want the door number when I called the first time and they they were surprised at what they found. They said even with the door number they wouldn't have been able to know what I had with a door this old (2004 install). I called ddmgaragedoors and explained the weight issue and they said the best would be to weigh the door (rather than using they spring finder tool that goes by the door model number) and gave me some ball park estimates on cost. Looks like for standard springs (assuming they are really equal and that's really in question IMHO) the cost would be about the same for springs or getting the local company to do the whole install. They upgraded springs would be about $100 more for the local company but well worth the trouble if they are really equivalent. He pointed to the springs on my old 9 x 8 door which are about half the diameter and said most springs today are more like that with two common sizes, both smaller than the big door has. They will be longer. And the wire size will be much smaller too. I could be wrong but putting the same force on a much smaller wire seems like it would be more stress and fail earlier but with more length the amount of flex is less so maybe that offsets it. I am waiting for price and lead time from the local company.

Sounds like they know their business. (And I have priced from DDM and find them high...)

As has been suggested, both/all springs should be replaced at the same time, IMO.

 

[samss]

https://www.expressgaragedoorparts.com/
Found this website about a year ago when I needed to replace the springs and cables on a cargo trailer ramp/door. Quick and easy ordering. Straightforward info about making repairs.
I'll definitely order from them again when I need parts for shop doors. The local monkeys have disappointed too many times.

 

[Innovate1]

After not hearing back from the dealer for a couple days I called another one that also serves my area. Told him what I had and he said there should be a tag on the springs. There was but it was tucked behind and out of sight. It had door weight, spring turns and wire size and length, ID, etc. Gave them a few numbers from the tag and they said they would call back with prices and lead time. A couple hours later they called back and said they had the standard replacement that would fit the existing cones and could order the larger wire springs that would also fit the same cones with a 1 - 2 week lead time. They said the cones were in short supply but I didn't need new ones. They were fine selling me just the springs or putting them in. Calling them back in the morning to go ahead. Much more up front with things and responsive in getting back to me. I think the first company has plenty of business so maybe didn't want to mess with my little job.

BTW, in the middle of my calls with them I was finally able to get through to the first company. They claimed to have tried to call me. Said it would be a week before I could even get in their schedule and it would be about $400 for standard or upgraded springs. Makes sense because the cost of the springs is nearly the same - the bulk of it is labor. Not sure why they gave me big differences in price earlier. Think I have found a new garage door company.

 

[matt_i]

Wow, just ordered two premium wire springs last night to help my Dad, $80 shipped.

Will be a couple of days to receive it but they have 2 cars outside to utilize

 

[JeffOYB]

Hi... This is my first post.

I see all the warnings against winding your own spring. Well, I think I can do it. I'll buy some good rod for doing it. I have the new spring. I have one spring for a single-car door.

So... I'm wondering... The pro videos all show the guys winding the spring with the door down. And the cables/drums are fully extended but tensioned. Well... would it be possible for me to install the cables and wind the spring with the door *up*? Hmmm... The cables would be installed in a fully wound position in this case. But I suppose it would be a tight fit for the winding rods... Maybe I wouldn't have enough space to turn each a quarter turn... Rats. And I wouldn't know how to calculate how many turns of tension should go into the spring when it's up. I'm guessing there's still a few turns in it at the top? Oh well... Just wondering... My garage is a stand alone with no exit door. I'm fine with lowering it and working from the inside. But it's a bit cluttered. The electric opener is strong enough that I'm still able to open and close the door with the spring assisting.

 

[Busted Knucles]

Simple mechanics. This is a garage site, get out there and quit being a candy as and fix it. Geeze. Use common sense and you wont get hurt. Do we need a website that says call a contractor for simple fixes?

 

[mmb617]

Simple mechanics. This is a garage site, get out there and quit being a candy as and fix it. Geeze. Use common sense and you wont get hurt. Do we need a website that says call a contractor for simple fixes?

I'm always surprised that on what I thought was a DIY site, many members will instantly say call a pro for every job.

Most of the "my garage build" threads are simply discussions of which contractors to hire. That's not building a garage, that's buying a garage. Nothing wrong with that, but let's call a spade a spade.

 

[spudley]

Hi... This is my first post.

I see all the warnings against winding your own spring. Well, I think I can do it. I'll buy some good rod for doing it. I have the new spring. I have one spring for a single-car door.

So... I'm wondering... The pro videos all show the guys winding the spring with the door down. And the cables/drums are fully extended but tensioned. Well... would it be possible for me to install the cables and wind the spring with the door *up*?

1) The door needs to be down when winding torsion springs.
2) Clean your garage.
3) Install a service door.

 

[Innovate1]

Just a bit more on my case. The tag has door weight at 405 lbs (8 x 18 metal insulated door) and spring ID as 2-5/8". It also had spring wire diameter, number of turns, etc but I don't have that handy. The longer life spring will have the same ID but be more turns of slightly bigger "wire" for the coil so is longer. Installation is $150 (plus cost of springs). Isn't worth my time to do it at that rate. I may have been able to shop around a bit and get a slightly better deal but I already have some hours invested and just need to get it done.

 

[matt_i]

Hi... This is my first post.

I see all the warnings against winding your own spring. Well, I think I can do it. I'll buy some good rod for doing it. I have the new spring. I have one spring for a single-car door.

So... I'm wondering... The pro videos all show the guys winding the spring with the door down. And the cables/drums are fully extended but tensioned. Well... would it be possible for me to install the cables and wind the spring with the door *up*? Hmmm... The cables would be installed in a fully wound position in this case. But I suppose it would be a tight fit for the winding rods... Maybe I wouldn't have enough space to turn each a quarter turn... Rats. And I wouldn't know how to calculate how many turns of tension should go into the spring when it's up. I'm guessing there's still a few turns in it at the top? Oh well... Just wondering... My garage is a stand alone with no exit door. I'm fine with lowering it and working from the inside. But it's a bit cluttered. The electric opener is strong enough that I'm still able to open and close the door with the spring assisting.

Methinks difficult to work above the door, although you are correct that the spring tension is considerably less.

I'd recommend fixing it before you get in the position where the other spring breaks.

All you have to do is count the number of turns that you unwind the good spring and you will have it. Its a little extra work but you can prevent some extra work by replacing both of the springs at the same time.

Also need a vise grip to maintain basic hand-tension on the driveshaft & sheave as you wind the spring.

 

[firebirdparts]

So... I'm wondering... The pro videos all show the guys winding the spring with the door down. And the cables/drums are fully extended but tensioned. Well... would it be possible for me to install the cables and wind the spring with the door *up*?.

If you can get to it. That would be unusual.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

The physics don’t work that way. As the spring is wound to correct tension, the diameter gets smaller but the length increases. So giving it one turn in the open position will allow the door to move about a foot down and the spring would bind up tight. So the correct way is to have the door closed and level, shim if you must, but the door must be level regardless of what the floor does, and use vice grips on the tube to keep the cables Tensioned. Wind a turn for each foot of door height, assuming you have four inch drums, and add half a turn to keep tension on the cables when the door is open. Use a piece of chalk across the face of the spring and draw one line horizontally across the spring. As you wind, remember the diameter decreases and for each turn you will see the chalk line come around. Each space is one turn. For safety reasons, remember you are dealing with stored energy. Take it seriously and you will be fine. But you are putting enough energy into the spring to balance the door. So if the door weighs 405 lbs, that is the energy in the spring when wound correctly. It can bite if you are not careful.

 

[Slednut]

I have a small detached where I store stuff. It has a couple 7x9' doors and one of them had a broken spring.

I ordered the spring online and when I received it removed the old spring shaft and drums. Reinstalled everything and put a pair of vise grips on the shaft to keep it from turning. I reattached the cables to the drums and took the slack out of the cables and locked the drums down.

I then wound the spring 7 turns and I was done in a very short amount of time.

I guess it would have taken a little more time to install another spring if it was a larger door.

 

[Innovate1]

The physics don’t work that way. As the spring is wound to correct tension, the diameter gets smaller but the length increases. So giving it one turn in the open position will allow the door to move about a foot down and the spring would bind up tight. So the correct way is to have the door closed and level, shim if you must, but the door must be level regardless of what the floor does, and use vice grips on the tube to keep the cables Tensioned. Wind a turn for each foot of door height, assuming you have four inch drums, and add half a turn to keep tension on the cables when the door is open. Use a piece of chalk across the face of the spring and draw one line horizontally across the spring. As you wind, remember the diameter decreases and for each turn you will see the chalk line come around. Each space is one turn. For safety reasons, remember you are dealing with stored energy. Take it seriously and you will be fine. But you are putting enough energy into the spring to balance the door. So if the door weighs 405 lbs, that is the energy in the spring when wound correctly. It can bite if you are not careful.

Hard to tell what or who you are referring to when you say the physics is wrong.

You are right that the energy is significant and something to be careful with But the weight of the door, 405 lbs in my case, is NOT the energy in the spring. It's simply a weight. Energy is force x distance. It is true that heavier doors will have more energy in the springs if the lift distance is the same.

 

[firebirdparts]

Hard to tell what or who you are referring to when you say the physics is wrong.
.

He says it gets longer when you wind it. If you didn't understand what the effect of that would be, or why it matters, it's like this. When you wind the spring, you have to lock down a couple of set screws on the shaft. So, if you lock those setscrews down with the door up, and what he says is in fact true, then you'll have the ends of the spring too close together.

I have no idea if he's right, but it seemed very clear.

 

[Innovate1]

He says it gets longer when you wind it. If you didn't understand what the effect of that would be, or why it matters, it's like this. When you wind the spring, you have to lock down a couple of set screws on the shaft. So, if you lock those setscrews down with the door up, and what he says is in fact true, then you'll have the ends of the spring too close together.

I have no idea if he's right, but it seemed very clear.

I understand the length change. But I wasn't the one posting about winding/adjusting the spring with the door up. Apparently that's what he was referring to.

 

[AP514]

Lets see a Pic of that spring

 

[JeffOYB]

ok winding when up won't work. ...set screws wd be too close. i get it.

i have a ONE spring door. i bought this 40 yr old bldg 15 yrs ago. so you think it had 2 springs at one point? well, it's a fourplex so i have more garages i could look at for inspiration and detail! ...it's a one car garage. w/o the spring the door is too heavy for me to lift!

 

[HotrodHR]

Hi... This is my first post.

I see all the warnings against winding your own spring. Well, I think I can do it. I'll buy some good rod for doing it. I have the new spring. I have one spring for a single-car door.

So... I'm wondering... The pro videos all show the guys winding the spring with the door down. And the cables/drums are fully extended but tensioned. Well... would it be possible for me to install the cables and wind the spring with the door *up*? Hmmm... The cables would be installed in a fully wound position in this case. But I suppose it would be a tight fit for the winding rods... Maybe I wouldn't have enough space to turn each a quarter turn... Rats. And I wouldn't know how to calculate how many turns of tension should go into the spring when it's up. I'm guessing there's still a few turns in it at the top? Oh well... Just wondering... My garage is a stand alone with no exit door. I'm fine with lowering it and working from the inside. But it's a bit cluttered. The electric opener is strong enough that I'm still able to open and close the door with the spring assisting.

Before you hurt yourself go and do your research, or hire a pro!

 

[JeffOYB]

Update: installed new spring easily thanks to youtube. door now works great! smooth...