I have a sub panel in my basement. It is side fed with a 100 Amp breaker from my main 200 Amp panel. Both the main and sub have a 100 Amp breaker, the one in the sub panel has the hold down screw in it. The panels are about 1 foot apart. My main panel is full (Well, I can add like 2 more tandems, but basically full). The subpanel is about half way full, though with tandems I can get 13 more circuits. I will be running a 100 Amp breaker out of this subpanel to feed my garage. And eventually, it will also need to power my basement when I finish the basement. I figure I'll have enough space, but it will be close. I may replace my 20 space/ 40 circuit sub panel with a 30/60. Anyway, my question is about my current 20/40 sub panel. When it was installed, the electrician broke off half of the two tabs on the main bus bar across from the side load 100 Amp breaker. In effect taking away 4 circuits if I used tandems, or the perfect place to put the 100 Amp I need for the garage. Does anyone know why he would do this? Should I order a replacement main bus? I see no harm in a breaker directly across from the main.
Broken main bus
- Thread starter Skooterj
- Start date
slow
Well-known member
Most likely the stab rating of that panel is 100/125 amps, so he wanted to make sure that was not exceeded on the opposite of the main. Personally I would replace the panel with one with a main and would want to to run the 100 amp to the garage off of the main panel, not the sub.
Terry D
Well-known member
Post a picture, Are you sure he physically broke them off. On some panels that have a back fed breaker for the main, the two spaces across from it are not usable. It is not a full buss. Count the spaces below your main breaker, If is 10 full size spaces, then this is the way your panel is manufactured.
I would suggest replacing the main panel, or moving some circuits from it to the sub panel and take the garage feed out of the main panel
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I'll take a picture when I get home. I looked at the information Eaton has online about the panel and they don't mention anything about not having the spaces. Rewiring the main panel would be a pain. Getting a larger sub panel would be much easier. The sub panel really doesn't have much load in it, at least not that is used at the same time. It has my pool pump and lights, which are only used in the summer. It has the emergency heat circuit for my Geo-Thermal unit, which is only used in the winter (and has actually never been needed as the geothermal unit has always kept up, even with it was 20 below). It will eventually have all my basement outlets, except the sump, well pump and sewage pump, which are already in the main. The garage probably only needs 50 amps, but I was going to run 100 anyway. If I need to, the future plan is to replace the sub panel with a second 200 Amp Main panel and upgrade to 400 Amp service. I just wanted those two other spaces because I like to go light on my circuits. Two extra in the basement would be great, but I probably only need about 4. It only going to have one bedroom, one bathroom and a home theater.
Terry D
Well-known member
I personally would still try to move enough circuits out of your main panel to the sub panel so you can install a 2 pole 100 breaker in the main. There is no code saying you cant put a 100 amp breaker in a 100 amp panel unless the label in the panel has a limit on the size of breaker. It all has to do with total load that sub will have on it.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
I doubt the electrician "broke off" the bus tabs. those buss bars are thick. it would be difficult to break them off or cut them without removing the buss from the panel.
Okay, I finally had a chance to look at the panel. I counted the spots and yes, it has 20 even with the missing stabs. So it looks like it came that way. Get another 200 Amp bigger box and move this one to my new detached garage.
Terry D
Well-known member
Your panel was made like that so you cant use the spaces across from the main. Some of the older panels like this used to have a sticker on the 2 knock outs over that area saying that those spaces were not usable.
Okay, I finally had a chance to look at the panel. I counted the spots and yes, it has 20 even with the missing stabs. So it looks like it came that way. Get another 200 Amp bigger box and move this one to my new detached garage.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Why didn't you do that before you even made the thread? Talk about jumping to conclusions
Walkers
Well-known member
It is sounding like you don’t have a big enough panel to begin with. Might consider upgrading to a 400 amp service instead of the 200 amp service.
I wouldn't be too hard on him. To someone that doesn't know those look like useable spaces.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
He also threw his electrician under the bus
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
"I counted the spots and yes, it has 20 even with the missing stabs."
So he just learned to count to 20?
I thought about getting a different brand because you guys obviously hold Eaton BR in very low regard. But I would also have to buy and replace all the existing breakers in the subpanel instead of reusing the ones I have if I buy a new Eaton 200 Amp Panel. That's a 60 Dual, 4-30 Duals, a 20 Dual and a 20 GFCI Single. Not to mention I already have a couple of extra breakers. Saves me a couple hundred dollars to stay with Eaton.
Penny wise, pound foolish. Junk is still junk.
Terry D
Well-known member
I used to put Cutler Hammer panels in for a couple of years, mainly because the supply house I used back then was a Cutler Hammer distributor. The CH panels are up there with the top of the line. I will agree, the BR seems cheaper quality on the enclosure. They are not even painted, the metal has sharp edges. The breakers kind of flop around until you get the cover on. They were still tight on the buss. It just seemed loose with in the breaker. As far as the actual working of the breaker, never heard of a problem of them not tripping or burning up. I have never had a call back. I put in Siemens panels now. Used to be the PL series, now it is the PN series. Still has a copper buss, but now it is tin coated. They are by far, built better than the BR
How many homeowners ever even read the panel label? Most people see that the cover has knockouts and assume that it's a space. I know I was guilty of it once upon a time.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Yep. It's happened to all of us, some just don't want to admit it. Worse than those panels are the 12 space Square D with a 16 space cover. I've fallen for that trick more than once.
Terry D
Well-known member
Has happened to me. The best is where someone actually used the spaces across from the main, and couldn't figure out why the power was going on and off. There is just enough space on the buss for that breaker to snap on, just wont be a good connection
Hey, I at least knew it was a 20 space/40 circuit panel. I just assumed the two spaces next to the main were part of the 20. Now I know they are not. Still doesn't help me with my running out of room problem. I'm gonna replace the sub-panel with a bigger, 200 Amp one, and eventually upgrade to 400 Amp service and have dual mains.
nadogail
Well-known member
After embarrassing myself too many times, I finally learned that assume is made of three words. I then began to attempt to read carefully and ask questions. Trying to remember my past mistakes has made me appear to be a little smarter.
