Brown and Sharpe Mill

[Yost]

Hello everybody, I thought I would post a picture of a Mill for sale near me and ask if anybody knew anything about it. I know some place like Practical Machinist would be better, but I don't have an account there, and I like it here. The seller doesn't appear to know much about it. Anyway it is a Brown and Sharpe Dynamaster 203, a vertical mill, not horizontal like most B&S mills you see.

I know these B&S mills are built like tanks, and would be great for hogging some serious steel, but I am worried it might be too big/heavy, for my garage, and may not go fast enough for working on smaller parts, especially in aluminum. I am hoping to get >2000 RPM spindle speed. I am also worried about the power requirements.

So does anybody want to hazard a guess on the wight, or know what the max spindle RPM is?

As always thanks much!

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[American Locomotive]

It's a 3 phase machine, so you'll need three phase power or a phase converter to run it. Not a huge deal though

The biggest problem will be tooling. It likely uses a B&S taper on the spindle, and tooling is very hard to find. $3500 is an extremely steep price for that machine, especially with no tooling.

 

[DocsMachine]

Okay, I don't know much about that machine specifically, but B&S machines of that era (50s to '60s) will be very heavy (6,000 to 8,000 pounds, maybe more) relatively slow (may have as slow as a 900 RPM max spindle speed- and 600 wouldn't be unheard of) and as noted, likely an odd taper (Brown & Sharpe taper, not surprisingly, probably either a B&S 9 or more likely a B&S 12.)

It'll also likely be 5 to 10HP or better of 3-phase, potentially even 480V, but chances are the motor can be wired for either 220 or 440. (The tag shown is for the coolant pump, not the spindle motor.)

The 3-phase can be taken care of with either a rotary converter or a VFD, although a VFD at the higher HP levels starts costing real money.

B&S Taper isn't a show-stopper, as new tooling can still be found today. Not as widely or in as many flavors as R8 or NMTB40, but it CAN be had.

Really, it's a heavy, powerful machine meant for metal removal rates measured by the shovelful. If you're looking for a mill to spin small endmills in aluminum... well, it'll work, just not very well.

And unless it's heavily tooled, $3,500 is considerably high. With no tools, and no 3-phase converter/conversion? If you're in a "machine tool desert" type of area, it might be worth $1,200. Most other places it'll be worth $800 to $1,000.

Doc.

 

[matt_i]

I don't think I've ever run my Bridgeport up to 2000 rpms except if I run the vari-drive up in backgear and forget to bring it back down before shifting gears....just saying don't be stuck on spindle speed. You'll find out what I'm talking about if you are buying your own edge tools....

The label you posted is a 1/8hp motor which isn't the spindle motor...coolant pump most likely which you probably won't use.

I'd be worried about the lack of a fast-moving quill, and trying to tool the oddball spindle. It would be worth seeing if the head is in tram (sweep out a circle on the table with dial indicator on a bent-L-shaped rod). I see the head can tilt left/right but the "nod" direction is metal-scraping only. The positioning accuracy is going to be as good as the leadscrew & nuts are at this point in time.

Personally I'd pass and wait for a Bridgeport or a clone. Much more versatile, imo.

 

[Air21]

I think that big dial underneath the "Brown & Sharpe" is your speed selector, and squinting at the picture it looks like it bumps in 30rpm increments and the clearest number is 175.

Matt_i is right though, you don't necessarily NEED the higher RPM's but you'd also be happier with a Bridgeport

 

[larry_g]

The 3-phase can be taken care of with either a rotary converter or a VFD, although a VFD at the higher HP levels starts costing real money.

Doc.

I agree with all Doc said except the above. That machine will have at least 3 motors on it, Main, Coolant, and Rapids. So a single VFD would not be recommended as you will be switching each motor at different times. I have a big old hz/vertical machine and it will do a lot however it is not well suited to smaller stuff. I would think that machine would use a 1" end mill as the 'small' one and go up from there.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Yost]

Thanks everybody for the responses, this helps a lot. I think I knew it was probably too big and slow, and certainly too expensive. I really like these older mills though, they look so incredibly rigid and solid. I have seen a Dynamaster 310, that goes up to 2400 RPM, but they are so big, they probably don't belong in a garage.

 

[DocsMachine]

I don't think I've ever run my Bridgeport up to 2000 rpms[...]

-I do a lot of work with small aluminum pieces, and I'm frequently using the top speed of my Bridgeport clone (2780 RPM.)

I'd be worried about the lack of a fast-moving quill[...]

-Good call. I missed that. Technically it has a quill (many large machine of this vintage don't) but it's operated by that big handwheel at the top of the head. A poor choice to drill with, though better than trying to crank the knee up.

I see the head can tilt left/right but the "nod" direction is metal-scraping only.

-Yep. They rarely "wear out of tram", however, with the primary culprit being the vertical knee ways, which see a great deal of pressure, a lot of grit and gunk, and are generally poorly lubed.

If it's an issue, though, a "quick fix" is to use the machine itself to surface an aluminum tooling plate bolted to the table, upon which the vise or workpiece is attached. That way the surface of the tooling plate is put'near dead nuts square to the spindle axis.

Personally I'd pass and wait for a Bridgeport or a clone. Much more versatile, imo.

-Gotta concur. That's a machine for an enthusiast or collector. Or a real job shop that has a recurring project in which a heavy machine like that would be useful.

For a home shop, it's actually pretty dang hard to beat a Bridgeport-style turret mill.

Doc.

 

[NC Rick]

Wow! Your going to have to leave the trunk lid open to bring that baby home! I personally do use higher spindle speeds on mt Bridgeport.