Brushless driver/impact suggestions

[Chuck_V]

I'm looking to add a set of cordless impacts to my home shop, for frequent motorcycle and some auto use. The shop will soon be fully plumbed for air, but since I will not be heavily and constantly using the larger impact, I think the convenience of the battery powered tools outweighs the sheer power of the air options.

The Mac 20V lineup (BWP151,BWP138, and MCF886) has caught my eye, but I'm completely open to suggestions. The highest quality, longest lasting, brushless selection is the goal.

So if you were buying a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 set for this application, what would you go with and why?

 

[bcradio]

I would go Milwaukee myself.

 

[M6erfan]

Well, Driver and Impact are 2 separate things, to me anyway,

For a 1/4" impact/driver you may want to consider 12v for small/light form factor like the Bosch brushless 12v line. I use a Bosch 1/4" on motorcycles and plenty of power for those tasks. For larger impacts I'd look at the Milwaukee M18 Fuel lineup. Not sure if you need a drill/driver?

 

[xin]

I'm looking to add a set of cordless impacts to my home shop, for frequent motorcycle and some auto use. The shop will soon be fully plumbed for air, but since I will not be heavily and constantly using the larger impact, I think the convenience of the battery powered tools outweighs the sheer power of the air options.

The Mac 20V lineup (BWP151,BWP138, and MCF886) has caught my eye, but I'm completely open to suggestions. The highest quality, longest lasting, brushless selection is the goal.

So if you were buying a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 set for this application, what would you go with and why?

MAC you can use the Dewalt batteries to.

 

[Farmall450]

I'd go with DeWalt's 20v XR lineup, but I'm already invested in their lineup/the old 18v so that makes sense for me.

 

[Chuck_V]

Well, Driver and Impact are 2 sepertae things, to me anyway,

For a 1/4" impact/driver you may want to consider 12v for small/light form factor like the Bosch brushless 12v line. I use a Bosch 1/4" on motorcycles and plenty of power for those tasks. For larger impacts I'd look at the Milwaukee M18 Fuel lineup. Not sure if you need a drill/driver?

1/2" drive impact for removal of hefty hardware.

3/8" and 1/4" socket driver or impact for install and removal of everything else.

Sorry for the confusing verbiage.

Since I have no other cordless tools, I'm obviously not invested in any particular brand's batteries yet.

 

[American Locomotive]

Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, all good. Pick your favorite color.

 

[Chuck_V]

Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, all good. Pick your favorite color.

Any reason to avoid the "tool truck" brands (SO, Mac, Matco, etc.)?

 

[lutter94]

I'm committed to DeWalt, but I think I can give Milwaukee credit for the M12 line, just from reading, it seems as a lot of people like it, 100 ft lbs on their M12 impact prob does just fine for most things. Standard 18/20V impacts are 125-150 ft lbs. If the value of being small/compact is high, I might say go M12, and grow it to include M18's that are the same as most others impacts. If a normal cordless 18/20v impact is small enough, then I would compare Milwaukee/DeWalt/Makita a little closer, factoring what combo kits i could get for $x.** deals. Or possibly the availability of other tools at local stores. Even if you didn't buy from local, you could at least get to handle one before jumping online.

 

[lutter94]

Any reason to avoid the "tool truck" brands (SO, Mac, Matco, etc.)?

Do you have a truck you're regularly in contact with? Is it financially competitive? Do their batteries cover a plethora of other tools you may want in the future? The "big 3" have a ton of different random tools no one knew they needed that run off the same batteries.

 

[M6erfan]

Do you have a truck you're regularly in contact with? Is it financially competitive? Do their batteries cover a plethora of other tools you may want in the future? The "big 3" have a ton of different random tools no one knew they needed that run off the same batteries.

^^^Yeah, all that.

My question would be; why would you buy tool truck cordless tools when you can buy from the big 3?

 

[Chuck_V]

Do you have a truck you're regularly in contact with? Is it financially competitive? Do their batteries cover a plethora of other tools you may want in the future? The "big 3" have a ton of different random tools no one knew they needed that run off the same batteries.

Currently just have access to Cornwell and Matco, although of course they can all be purchased online as well.

 

[Chuck_V]

^^^Yeah, all that.

My question would be; why would you buy tool truck cordless tools when you can buy from the big 3?

That's my question as well - I'm searching for the best tools regardless of the actual purchase source, I'd happily buy from the "big 3" if the product is better.

 

[lutter94]

Someone commited to yellow is going to promote yellow, along with red and then green. People seem to like what they have. One guy at work likes Ryobi from HD, I've never been around them but he has good luck he says. Maybe give a few a feel at local stores, and go with what feels right. You might have better luck on this thread asking which tools to shy away from, not migrate to, lol.

 

[bradpac]

I am a huge fan of the Milwaukee M12 Fuel line of tools. Seem to have good power. That being said, my friend who is a professional mechanic really loves the SnapOn 3/8 impact, I myself am not a fan of its layout with a dual position trigger for forward/reverse instead of a switch, but its personal preference.

 

[M6erfan]

Heres an Amazon review of the M18 Fuel 3/8" Impact Wrench...Pretty much all you need to know...

March 1, 2016 It's like holding the 4th of July in your hand.


The best tactical 3/8” impact wrench American dollars can buy. Tactical you ask? Heck yeah, bro. Like anything worth its tactical weight in para-cord, this baby has black grip on it and an LED light. Stubborn bolt threatening you? Shine the LED light in its face to disorient it and hit that sun-uv-a-gun with 210 pounds of American twisting torque. Penetrating oil? Penetrating oil is for communists. If it don’t turn the first time, you’re not turning hard enough. Man up.
The body of the wrench is red so it won’t show the good ‘ol American blood you’ll bleed when busting knuckles working on your ’71 Hemi Cuda…cause the only thing we work on are muscle cars, Apache helos, and the Statue of Liberty. Work on a Prius with this thing and you’ll likely flip the car over or twist it completely in half. Heck, the motor in this tool is bigger than the motor in the Prius. This impact gun does the quarter mile in 9.8 seconds…without nitrous.
Tactical weapon or drag racer, which is it? It’s both. Don’t try to pigeon-hole this tool. This is America. It can be whatever it wants and as much as it wants.
That’s right, it also has a belt clip. Boom, now you’re a gunslinger. Billy the Kid who? More like Milford Waukee. A Million Ways to Die in the West? More like A Million Ways to Travel Back to the Wild West in a Time Machine and Totally Kick ****.....and then jump on a steamer ship and head over to Germany and put your size 12 USA-made Red Wings up Hitler's Spundloch. Salute! You just prevented WWII, my friend.
You wanna talk about batteries? These same batteries are on the International Space station. That’s right, that big solar-paneled American Flag floating in outer-********-space runs on these batteries. “International” Space Station you ask? Yeah, we all know “International” means, “Get out the way non-USA countries, Merica is here and we’re conquering space.” Put a flag in it. Those aren’t shooting stars, that’s American confetti falling to earth.
Chuck Norris and Ronda Rousey made a baby that was raised by grizzly bears and bald eagles. That baby invented this tool. 'Nuf said.

 

[Real_PhillBert]

Personally I'd stay away from the tool truck cordless tools as they're generally not very competitive with Dewalt or Milwaukee.

Both Dewalt and Milwaukee make excellent brushless tools, and have a pretty full line should you want to expand down the line. Hard to go wrong with either one really.

Personally I went with Dewalt purely because they assemble some of their higher end offerings in the US.

 

[Yarpo]

Any reason to avoid the "tool truck" brands (SO, Mac, Matco, etc.)?

How about the fact that they're double/triple the price, and their performance in comparison *****?

800 dollars -> 600 ft. lbs. of torque (LOL)

https://store.snapon.com/Cordless-I...MonsterLithium-Impact-Wrench-Kit-P889779.aspx

vs

450 dollars -> 1400 ft. lbs. of torque

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...ing-Kit-W-2-5-0Ah-Batteries-2767-22/302675438

or

430 dollars -> 40 ft. lbs and 275 RPM

https://store.snapon.com/CTR761B-Se...icroLithium-Cordless-Ratchet-Kit-P892936.aspx

vs

240 dollars -> 40 ft. lbs and 250 RPM

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...-Batteries-Charger-Tool-Bag-2556-22/302616660

Oh, and one of these companies has cordless tools and batteries you can use with a table saw or weed wacker. The other?

I dunno why anybody would buy snap on cordless tools unless their dealer is a girl and she's sucking your ****. Buy Dewalt/Makita/Milwaukee and use your saved money for other tools or hobbies.

 

[Voi]

So if you were buying a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 set for this application, what would you go with and why?

Most likely Milwaukee even though I recently bought into Makita. I like that they have such a wide range of choices in both 12 and 18 volts and that you can charge both voltages on the same charger. I also think they're the only company to offer a brushless 1/4" impact wrench in case you ever need it.

They also offer other tools that I would find useful for motorcycle work, such as...

Cordless ratchets

Right angle impacts

The M12 right angle grinder/polisher

Lighting options for tight spaces

A clutched hex driver

To be fair, I'm not a motorcycle guy. I tore down one 50 year old motorcycle and besides the impacts you want I probably would have used every tool on my list above other than the polisher and even that would have come in handy if I had decided to restore it.

I recently took the front end of my side by side apart to get to and re-wind the winch. Again, I probably could have used every tool on the list.

 

[American Locomotive]

Someone commited to yellow is going to promote yellow, along with red and then green. People seem to like what they have. One guy at work likes Ryobi from HD, I've never been around them but he has good luck he says. Maybe give a few a feel at local stores, and go with what feels right. You might have better luck on this thread asking which tools to shy away from, not migrate to, lol.

As much as GJ love to hate on Ryobi, I know a lot of people with a lot of Ryobi tools that are very happy with them. Not the most powerful, or lightest tools around, but they seem to serve their purpose well.

Plus, Ryobi's cordless hot glue gun is freaking awesome, and as far as I know, no one else has one yet. I bought one for someone invested in the Ryobi One system as a Christmas gift, and they absolutely love that thing.

Personally to me, the Milwaukee Fuel line never really impressed me that much. I constantly see people complaining about chuck run-out issues on Milwaukee tools. I experienced the infamous "milwaukee bit slip" at work, with an older Fuel drill that just flat out refused to grab onto this drill with any amount of grip. I twas absurd. The higher-end DeWalts come with a sweet Rohm chuck, Makita seems to have a bit more durability and better over fit/finish, and lower-end brands like Ryobi offer value that Milwaukee just doesn't. I do however love Milwaukee corded tools.

 

[bcradio]

As much as GJ love to hate on Ryobi, I know a lot of people with a lot of Ryobi tools that are very happy with them. Not the most powerful, or lightest tools around, but they seem to serve their purpose well.

Plus, Ryobi's cordless hot glue gun is freaking awesome, and as far as I know, no one else has one yet. I bought one for someone invested in the Ryobi One system as a Christmas gift, and they absolutely love that thing.

Personally to me, the Milwaukee Fuel line never really impressed me that much. I constantly see people complaining about chuck run-out issues on Milwaukee tools. I experienced the infamous "milwaukee bit slip" at work, with an older Fuel drill that just flat out refused to grab onto this drill with any amount of grip. I twas absurd. The higher-end DeWalts come with a sweet Rohm chuck, Makita seems to have a bit more durability and better over fit/finish, and lower-end brands like Ryobi offer value that Milwaukee just doesn't. I do however love Milwaukee corded tools.

Sounds like you need to get out more then.

 

[WhiffySpark]

How about the fact that they're double/triple the price, and their performance in comparison *****?

800 dollars -> 600 ft. lbs. of torque (LOL)

https://store.snapon.com/Cordless-I...MonsterLithium-Impact-Wrench-Kit-P889779.aspx

vs

450 dollars -> 1400 ft. lbs. of torque

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...ing-Kit-W-2-5-0Ah-Batteries-2767-22/302675438

or

430 dollars -> 40 ft. lbs and 275 RPM

https://store.snapon.com/CTR761B-Se...icroLithium-Cordless-Ratchet-Kit-P892936.aspx

vs

240 dollars -> 40 ft. lbs and 250 RPM

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauk...-Batteries-Charger-Tool-Bag-2556-22/302616660

Oh, and one of these companies has cordless tools and batteries you can use with a table saw or weed wacker. The other?

I dunno why anybody would buy snap on cordless tools unless their dealer is a girl and she's sucking your ****. Buy Dewalt/Makita/Milwaukee and use your saved money for other tools or hobbies.

I’ve had them all. Currently have miluwakee and regret selling my snapon every time I use miluwakee.

And it’s not 800. I paid less than 600 for gun 2 batteries and a bag.

 

[American Locomotive]

Sounds like you need to get out more then.

Okay

 

[jd_1138]

As much as GJ love to hate on Ryobi, I know a lot of people with a lot of Ryobi tools that are very happy with them. Not the most powerful, or lightest tools around, but they seem to serve their purpose well.

Plus, Ryobi's cordless hot glue gun is freaking awesome, and as far as I know, no one else has one yet. I bought one for someone invested in the Ryobi One system as a Christmas gift, and they absolutely love that thing.

Personally to me, the Milwaukee Fuel line never really impressed me that much. I constantly see people complaining about chuck run-out issues on Milwaukee tools. I experienced the infamous "milwaukee bit slip" at work, with an older Fuel drill that just flat out refused to grab onto this drill with any amount of grip. I twas absurd. The higher-end DeWalts come with a sweet Rohm chuck, Makita seems to have a bit more durability and better over fit/finish, and lower-end brands like Ryobi offer value that Milwaukee just doesn't. I do however love Milwaukee corded tools.

Yeah, I'd kinda stay clear of Milwaukee for the same reasons, plus they're China made and owned. DeWalt is a USA co. with a lot of manufacturing here in the USA. I kinda put my money where my mouth is. I bought DeWalt and loved them. Ended up selling them for 1/3 what I paid to help out a friend who needed pro level tools to start his contracting biz.

Now I happen to have Makita -- sort of by accident. I bought a Makita impact driver on clearance at HD, and I bought a corded Makita recip off OfferUP.

Ryobis are good, too, but they are a little on the chunky fat side. So they may pose clearance/space issues when working in tight areas.

 

[bert1913]

Well, Driver and Impact are 2 sepertae things, to me anyway,

For a 1/4" impact/driver you may want to consider 12v for small/light form factor like the Bosch brushless 12v line. I use a Bosch 1/4" on motorcycles and plenty of power for those tasks. For larger impacts I'd look at the Milwaukee M18 Fuel lineup. Not sure if you need a drill/driver?

yep! i have milwaukee m18 for the big nuts and bolts and bosch 12 volt for the smaller stuff

 

[Yarpo]

I’ve had them all. Currently have miluwakee and regret selling my snapon every time I use miluwakee.

And it’s not 800. I paid less than 600 for gun 2 batteries and a bag.

Not bad, 150 dollars more expensive with less than half the breakaway torque!

What are you disappointed in? My boss has the snap on gun and everytime I have to use it I wish I had either my Milwaukee or my coworkers DeWalt. Feels like it weighs 40 pounds lol

 

[visionguru]

I'm looking to add a set of cordless impacts to my home shop, for frequent motorcycle and some auto use. The shop will soon be fully plumbed for air, but since I will not be heavily and constantly using the larger impact, I think the convenience of the battery powered tools outweighs the sheer power of the air options.

The Mac 20V lineup (BWP151,BWP138, and MCF886) has caught my eye, but I'm completely open to suggestions. The highest quality, longest lasting, brushless selection is the goal.

So if you were buying a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 set for this application, what would you go with and why?

Have you looked into Ingersoll Rand? The workmanship is above Milwaukee/Dewalt. Their design is more towards automatic mechanic than general construction use.

 

[flyingblind]

I have the Kobalt 24v 1/2 drive brushless from lowes.. I use it to close drums at work. I like it better than the Dewalt and the Milwaukee.Lowes

 

[WhiffySpark]

Not bad, 150 dollars more expensive with less than half the breakaway torque!

What are you disappointed in? My boss has the snap on gun and everytime I have to use it I wish I had either my Milwaukee or my coworkers DeWalt. Feels like it weighs 40 pounds lol

It doesn’t have less than have the breakaway torque. It’s measured differently if I remember correctly. There is no standard for measuring it. Mine took off Honda crank bolts. That’s plenty.

Miluwakee is ok it just doesn’t have the same feel as the snapon gun. Like you said miluwakee is a lot lighter and feels more chinesy. My 3/8 was already having issues.

 

[johninct]

Snap-On 14.4 V impact. There is nothing out there that is smaller with as much power. I used mine last week to split a toilet and the bolts were never off in 50 years. Also, the IR line is very good if you need even more power.

 

[joe_pinehill1]

Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee, all good. Pick your favorite color.

Agree, these modern tools are so good, you wonder how you got anything done without them. If your just starting, shop around and pick the line that you think gives you the best value. HD has Milwaukee, Lowes does not. DeWalt seems to be everywhere. I started with Milwaukee, people like DeWalt just as much.

 

[tonyciambrone]

Any reason to avoid the "tool truck" brands (SO, Mac, Matco, etc.)?

Yeah, price and avaiability.

Milwaukee and Dewalt are available from the hardware store and hundreds of online retailers. A Milwaukee fuel setup will last upwards of a decade in my experience...I have no evidence of Snap On battery tools being any better than Fuel tools.. and I have seen plenty of convincing videos that Milwaukee outperforms them. I have limited experience with Makita and Dewalt cordless tools

 

[jd_1138]

Agree, these modern tools are so good, you wonder how you got anything done without them. If your just starting, shop around and pick the line that you think gives you the best value. HD has Milwaukee, Lowes does not. DeWalt seems to be everywhere. I started with Milwaukee, people like DeWalt just as much.

Also Bosch are good too though their lineup isn't very large.

 

[WittHay]

The Mac 20V lineup (BWP151,BWP138, and MCF886) has caught my eye, but I'm completely open to suggestions. The highest quality, longest lasting, brushless selection is the goal.

So if you were buying a 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 set for this application, what would you go with and why?

The Mac is a good choice, they have glass filled nylon body's that stand up to automotive fluids better than the big 3. The 3/8 drive is more powerful than the Milwaukee or the DeWalt version. The impact driver, I think is smaller than the Milwaukee but just as powerful. I walk past them, every time I get on the Mac truck.

The only thing comparable is IR.(ingersoll-Rand) But their big 1/2 impact is still the brushed version. Compare 2 or 3 brands in person first, before you buy or order online

 

[powertrip]

I have the Kobalt 24v 1/2 drive brushless from lowes.. I use it to close drums at work. I like it better than the Dewalt and the Milwaukee.Lowes

I too bought the Kobalt 24v 1/2 heavy duty impact. Very impressed with it. 650ft lbs. of breakaway torque and batteries that are cheap. I caught the tool only for $75 on an open stock deal. There are several you tube reviews on the batteries where they are taken apart and the wiring, circuits and soldering is excellent. The cells are Samsung cells. $10 for a 1.5mah, $20 for a 2.0mah, $50 for a 4.0mah and $80 for a 5.0mah. That's cheaper than any other brand. You get a 1 yr no questions return warranty on any of the 24v lineup, 5 years on the tool and 3 on the battery. The only thing is the stigma that its not red or yellow and the hope that Lowes will continue to develop this line. I do know this by reading online, there has been a lot of investment into this new battery platform (1 extra cell in the battery pack as opposed to traditional 18-20volt systems) by Kobalt and they have released tools steadily since late 2016. It's worth a look because of battery prices. They also make a smaller 1/2 impact (200 ft. lb.) and a 3/8 impact (150 ft. lb.)

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-24-Vo...ded/1000061641

 

[theoldwizard1]

I am relatively new to the whole cordless tools market, but I got a Milwaukee M12 Fuel 3/8" impact about a year ago and I love it ! I also bought the Milwaukee 3/8" square to 1/4" hex adapter and use it a lot.

For the average DIY person, 3/8" drive is big enough. The only think I have used any 1/2" drive on in the past 3 or 4 years is wheel lug nuts. I just crack them loose with a torque wrench, jack up the car and spin them off with the M12 Fuel 3/8". Reverse the process to install.

I really like the light weight and compact size of the M12 versus the M18. Obviously anyone using them all day would probably go with an M18 or at least the bigger M12 battery pack.

 

[lutter94]

I am relatively new to the whole cordless tools market, but I got a Milwaukee M12 Fuel 3/8" impact about a year ago and I love it ! I also bought the Milwaukee 3/8" square to 1/4" hex adapter and use it a lot.

For the average DIY person, 3/8" drive is big enough. The only think I have used any 1/2" drive on in the past 3 or 4 years is wheel lug nuts. I just crack them loose with a torque wrench, jack up the car and spin them off with the M12 Fuel 3/8". Reverse the process to install.

I really like the light weight and compact size of the M12 versus the M18. Obviously anyone using them all day would probably go with an M18 or at least the bigger M12 battery pack.

You use a torque wrench to loosen? Seems like the job for a breaker bar, rather than putting unnecessary stresses on a calibrated tool.

 

[bochnak]

I have the M18 1/4" & 3/8" and love them. They are great for motorcycles.

I still have my 1/2" pneumatic impact for big stuff.

 

[crf450x]

I have ingersoll 12v 3/8 and 18v 1/2 impacts. Excellent quality. But, looking back, I wouldn't buy them again because there just aren't many tools available from them. They're also not brushless.

I recently bought Milwaukee 18v drill and 1/4 driver. I don't have many miles on them yet but they seem nice. If I was starting over with cordless tools everything would be Milwaukee.

Snap on 14.4v stuff is good but not worth the money. Their 1/2" impact just plain *****.

 

[sk farmer]

Heres an Amazon review of the M18 Fuel 3/8" Impact Wrench...Pretty much all you need to know...

March 1, 2016 It's like holding the 4th of July in your hand.


The best tactical 3/8” impact wrench American dollars can buy. Tactical you ask? Heck yeah, bro. Like anything worth its tactical weight in para-cord, this baby has black grip on it and an LED light. Stubborn bolt threatening you? Shine the LED light in its face to disorient it and hit that sun-uv-a-gun with 210 pounds of American twisting torque. Penetrating oil? Penetrating oil is for communists. If it don’t turn the first time, you’re not turning hard enough. Man up.
The body of the wrench is red so it won’t show the good ‘ol American blood you’ll bleed when busting knuckles working on your ’71 Hemi Cuda…cause the only thing we work on are muscle cars, Apache helos, and the Statue of Liberty. Work on a Prius with this thing and you’ll likely flip the car over or twist it completely in half. Heck, the motor in this tool is bigger than the motor in the Prius. This impact gun does the quarter mile in 9.8 seconds…without nitrous.
Tactical weapon or drag racer, which is it? It’s both. Don’t try to pigeon-hole this tool. This is America. It can be whatever it wants and as much as it wants.
That’s right, it also has a belt clip. Boom, now you’re a gunslinger. Billy the Kid who? More like Milford Waukee. A Million Ways to Die in the West? More like A Million Ways to Travel Back to the Wild West in a Time Machine and Totally Kick ****.....and then jump on a steamer ship and head over to Germany and put your size 12 USA-made Red Wings up Hitler's Spundloch. Salute! You just prevented WWII, my friend.
You wanna talk about batteries? These same batteries are on the International Space station. That’s right, that big solar-paneled American Flag floating in outer-********-space runs on these batteries. “International” Space Station you ask? Yeah, we all know “International” means, “Get out the way non-USA countries, Merica is here and we’re conquering space.” Put a flag in it. Those aren’t shooting stars, that’s American confetti falling to earth.
Chuck Norris and Ronda Rousey made a baby that was raised by grizzly bears and bald eagles. That baby invented this tool. 'Nuf said.

makes me want to puke and never want to buy anything made by milwaukee.


same old question but here we go again. pretty much any of the big names make a a great tool. buy what you like because you like it, not because of what someone told you what they think is awesome.

do the tools fit your hand? every brand has a slightly different feel.

are the controls conveniently placed for you? if it is a pain for you to change direction, speed, torque, etc. then you won't like it.

what tools do want in the future? drills, saws, impact driver/wrench, flashlights are pretty standard fair. some other tools are not.

are they available locally? can you get a battery, different tools or accessories in a pinch or do you have to wait a week for the truck?

is there forward or backward compatabilty? will old tools work with new batteries or vice versa? how about with other brands.

i had 18 volt dewalt tools and the battery adapter made the jump to 20 volt max easy. the 20 volt max also fit all of the needs listed above as well. dewalt batteries also work with some mac cordless tools and the new klein tools.

those things worked for me but if they don't fit you, get a platform that does.