Brymen multimeters?

[Infinia]

Op, story about the thread derail. Some just have to attack others for having different opinions and some of us are dumb enough to try to teach them.

There is that "us" again, so I'm naturally the "them" (the enemy right).. YOU are only one the creating conflicts with personal attacks. I'm accused of "lecturing", now you claim youre teaching me? Oh the irony just continues. Learn what the REL function is, and get back to us.

attack others for having different opinions

nope it's fine to express what your experience is, but when you poo another's opinion by using vague innuendoes from elsewhere on the internet, That's an unfair tactic and often where I'll draw the line. So what, I'll always question someone's need to spec a high end DMM. It's not an attack on you and I never said don't get Bremen / Greenlee based on lack of technical features performance. Some may call it lecturing, on advice to be aware there many more things to consider some technical, many not so.

 

[American Locomotive]

Infinia, you've been inflammatory this entire thread, discounting extremely useful features as un-important or as for inexperienced newbies. While simultaneously talking about features that are unimportant to those people.

There's a reason why the Unit-T UT61E costs $50, and that's because it's a cheap, Chinese meter. It's built cheap and has poor input protection. You can't even change the fuses without taking it apart. Even a basic Brymen like the BM235 has easily accessible fuses, extensive input protection and much more.

The UT61E is a toy in comparison. It's got a snazzy AD converter with a lot of counts, but that's all it has going for it.

 

[Olafur]

Been looking to get a highly accurate DMM for checking/calibrating other meters as well as for bench work, so it doesn't have to be Fluke-level indestructible. I've heard really good things about the Brymen BM869S model, anyone here have one?

Right now my only experiences with DMMs are with what many would all throw-away ones like Innova 3320 and UniT UT210e. I'm figuring the Brymen will be far better than those in both accuracy and features.

Several video blogs have covered Brymen. Biased or not - their tear-down videos show they are well built. One blogger is pretty serious and fires high voltage pulses at the meters he tests in order to find out if they are indeed up to specs regarding safety. This guy:

Brymen does well in his tests. UniT - not so much and it rhymes with the lack of built quality seen in tear-down videos from him, EEVblog and Mjorton (all on youtube)

I bought several Brymen amp-clamps and multi meters for a friend and used the opportunity to play with them and IMHO they seem rugged and decent meters for the price. (no BM869 sorry).

 

[Olafur]

There's a reason why the Unit-T UT61E costs $50, and that's because it's a cheap, Chinese meter. It's built cheap and has poor input protection. You can't even change the fuses without taking it apart. Even a basic Brymen like the BM235 has easily accessible fuses, extensive input protection and much more.

The UT61E is a toy in comparison. It's got a snazzy AD converter with a lot of counts, but that's all it has going for it.

Agreed.

 

[Infinia]

There's a reason why the Unit-T UT61E costs $50, and that's because it's a cheap, Chinese meter. It's built cheap and has poor input protection. You can't even change the fuses without taking it apart. Even a basic Brymen like the BM235 has easily accessible fuses, extensive input protection and much more.

well if that's your feature set that is so important/ missing for double the price go for it. You do realize theyre all Chinese at this price point right? I cant remember the last time I needed to find a replacement fuse for a meter that had dedicated jacks. Input protection? We have done lots of work without CAT ratings, IMO that's a feature I call dummie protection. It's all a trade-off in the end, pick your poison..BTW they have much more dummie protections features in even more expensive DMMs you should look into them too.

 

[General Geoff]

Several video blogs have covered Brymen. Biased or not - their tear-down videos show they are well built. One blogger is pretty serious and fires high voltage pulses at the meters he tests in order to find out if they are indeed up to specs regarding safety. This guy:

Brymen does well in his tests. UniT - not so much and it rhymes with the lack of built quality seen in tear-down videos from him, EEVblog and Mjorton (all on youtube)

I bought several Brymen amp-clamps and multi meters for a friend and used the opportunity to play with them and IMHO they seem rugged and decent meters for the price. (no BM869 sorry).

Thank you for the link, his tests and reviews are so far very informative. I'll watch some more before deciding.

 

[Infinia]

One blogger is pretty serious and fires high voltage pulses at the meters he tests in order to find out if they are indeed up to specs regarding safety. This guy: Brymen does well in his tests. UniT...ything "for the money" the UniT is fantastic.

 

[Olafur]

OMG not that guy there's all kinds on the tube, the end.
yeah full disclosures are good. Those are the guys that are selling stuff, warning heavy bias alert ahead folks. not much money to be made for selling UniT that's for sure. Preface everything "for the money" the UniT is fantastic.

I pay attention to these things, I have never seen any such signs from Joe Smith - have you?

 

[Infinia]

I pay attention to these things, I have never seen any such signs from Joe Smith - have you?

no , no
YT nut jobs don't need to advertise their wares. blowing stuff up is entertainment for nerds.
Listen up guys there's life / history outside /before the internet. stuff changes sure but its the fundamentals that matter! Tools are Tools better focus on the work.
If I'm buying stuff for my hired insured electricians sure CAT ratings & UL listings, must have all of them, totally with you.

 

[Olafur]

no , no
YT nut jobs don't need to advertise their wares. blowing stuff up is entertainment for nerds.
Listen up guys there's life / history outside /before the internet. stuff changes sure but its the fundamentals that matter! Tools are Tools better focus on the work.

I for one sometimes have to work on 3 phase 400v circuits and CAT listings matter to me. I make mistakes most days and murphy's law applies to multimeter's like everything else. Granted my 30 year old Hioki has served me well and not killed me even if it lacks in input protection compared to todays quality meters. In retrospect I have been lucky and I am currently looking for good meter - it will probably be another Hioki.

I also wonder if a manufacturer fakes CAT listings - like UniT seems to be doing, and the internals of the meters scream at you they are not up to the task - what else did they fake and gobble together? How accurate will the beast be after one year of use and few mishaps.

For me it's not worth it, the last thing I need on a rainy day is a meter I have to second guess.

 

[Infinia]

For me it's not worth it, the last thing I need on a rainy day is a meter I have to second guess.

understood. I would not be surprised, but disappointed if they faked CAT level markings, 'UL listing' is less likely. So if they don't show both marking together, stay away IF you do HV high energy work. I reckon a big name brand on OEM gear is another value added assurance of higher QA.
Ive taken apart cheap ATX power supply transformers and there is no way they could pass any safety agency UL/CSA construction requirements ,yet they show the approvals. did they pass tests? maybe.

I make mistakes most days and murphy's law applies to multimeter's like everything else

Ive worked in and around 480V 3 phase transformers everyday for 6mo. in my youth. I cant even remember what the meter was perhaps a Triplett/Simpson VOM. I don't consider myself lucky just aware respectful of the surroundings and what I was doing. It's pretty eerie hand bolting taps on 100KVA transformer while thinking about the possibilities.

 

[American Locomotive]

well if that's your feature set that is so important/ missing for double the price go for it. You do realize theyre all Chinese at this price point right?

There's a difference between "cheap Chinese" and "Chinese".

I cant remember the last time I needed to find a replacement fuse for a meter that had dedicated jacks.

The fuses are on the current jacks, and it's very easy to blow the mA range fuse if something draws a bit more current than you expect. Even the A range fuse can be easily blown if you're trying to measure the current of a DC motor.

That's a feature I call dummie protection. It's all a trade-off in the end, pick your poison..BTW they have much more dummie protections features in even more expensive DMMs you should look into them too.

This shows you have a real misunderstanding of what CAT ratings are actually for. CAT ratings are not "dummie protection" for someone sticking the meter onto the wrong thing (although they do help with that) - they're designed for voltage transients while you're already hooked up to a voltage supply.

If you're hooked up to a 480 VAC supply, and there's a sudden surge (say from a lightning strike), the CAT IV 600V rating means that the meter will not explode into a ball of fire and arc-flash while you're holding it.

Anyone doing any kind of HV mains work should be using a CAT IV rated meter with lots of input protection. You can respect your surroundings all you want, but it's not going to save you when that 480v feed suddenly has 5kv+ on it.

 

[General Geoff]

After watching some videos and reading other reviews regarding the BM-869s, folks who've actually used it have very little negative to say about it, and lots of positive. I'm going to order it tonight.

 

[Citation]

Hard to argue against the Brymen for the price. However, you might consider one of these Agilent meters for the same money.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-U1272...%3A873280bd15a0a5e295e65e17ffe62b3e%7Ciid%3A4
Agilent 1272a. I've read a lot of good things about them and you're talking about the same price and if you search eBay you can find 'new other' for the same price as the gray market Brymen. I'm clearly a fan of Brymen but much of that is based on the value of used Brymen meters vs used Fluke. At the BM 869's price point I might go Agilent first

Realistically I would (and did) wait to find find a Fluke 187 for just over $100. I use it along with my Greenlee .. But I'm sure I use them incorrectly and should just get a HF freebie ... Wait I have a few of those as well...

 

[kd3pc]

If you're hooked up to a 480 VAC supply, and there's a sudden surge (say from a lightning strike), the CAT IV 600V rating means that the meter will not explode into a ball of fire and arc-flash while you're holding it.

Anyone doing any kind of HV mains work should be using a CAT IV rated meter with lots of input protection. You can respect your surroundings all you want, but it's not going to save you when that 480v feed suddenly has 5kv+ on it.

Keep in mind that while the meter may be CAT rated to 600 or 1000 or .....the leads of the cheaper meter are nowhere near that quality --- so if CAT ratings are important to you, or your work involves hybrid/electric cars or motors...make sure leads are good for what you are probing. And are labeled as such. Too many don't wear HV glove sets anymore, just bare handing a cheap meter, with cheaper leads. and still looking at the meter.

 

[joeqsmith]

After watching some videos and reading other reviews regarding the BM-869s, folks who've actually used it have very little negative to say about it, and lots of positive. I'm going to order it tonight.

I have had that same meter for some time now and really like it. I seldom use a handheld meter to measure frequency and while the manual does have a fairly conservative limit, mine will read to about 10MHz.

After you have used it for a few months, it would be interesting to hear what you think about it.

 

[General Geoff]

I have had that same meter for some time now and really like it. I seldom use a handheld meter to measure frequency and while the manual does have a fairly conservative limit, mine will read to about 10MHz.

After you have used it for a few months, it would be interesting to hear what you think about it.

Your youtube videos were very helpful in guiding me to this meter. Thank you!

So far I've used the meter to diagnose failing logic boards in laptops (and even repair two of them), do basic residential mains electrical work, diagnose and repair a microwave oven, bench test a suspect rectifier/regulator from a motorcycle, check AC output on the stator of same motorcycle, find parasitic current draw in a car (by measuring voltage drop across fuses), and I used it to monitor temperature on copper water pipes while I desoldered old shutoff valves that wouldn't fully close.

Couldn't be happier with it! I'll report back in a few months with some observations about it compared to the cheapo meters I've gotten used to.

 

[joeqsmith]

Glad they helped and that you are being productive with your new meter. I work mostly with electronics and this meter is a pretty good fit. I thought the 9V battery would be a problem but I think I am on the third one now. I've not had any problems with it.

 

[General Geoff]

Video of it in action.

The bar display on the bottom really does help in certain situations.

 

[pedrodagr8]

OMG not that guy there's all kinds on the tube, the end.
yeah full disclosures are good. Those are the guys that are selling stuff, warning heavy bias alert ahead folks. not much money to be made for selling UniT that's for sure. Preface everything "for the money" the UniT is fantastic.

Sorry, but "that guy" is actually very well knowlegeable and very well trusted. The work he does and the explorations he has done on this topic are quite sound from a technical perspective, even if fanboys don't like the outcome. The only discussion is how relevant are his results for you. For some, who want a device that can actually last and won't die easily they are worth every penny. If you either don't care how robust your meter is or treat it very very carefully never exposing it to high voltage, then his studies are not worth your time.

As for Uni-T, some Uni-T's are decent for the money, the UT61E is NOT one of them. I have owned two. The feature set is good but you never know if you are going to get one of the ones that drifts. They also die really easily. Something as simple as accidentally putting the battery in backwards is enough to kill it entirely; something which is very easy to do on the UT61E as it isn't really marked well and the battery fits both ways. The feature set is nice, but I would rather go for the UT139C as it is a much more well built meter. Personally, I use my BM869S (sold my 87V after getting it, as it is a much better meter) or I use my HP 34401A which I had calibrated and adjusted last year. If I need more than those two, then I pull out my own working, somewhat reliable Uni-T UT61E.

 

[Infinia]

As for Uni-T, some Uni-T's are decent for the money, the UT61E is NOT one of them. I have owned two. The feature set is good but you never know if you are going to get one of the ones that drifts. They also die really easily

snip

then I pull out my own working, somewhat reliable Uni-T UT61E

hmm this is another opinion stated as facts.
Pedro makes The UT61E sound more delicate and fidgety than the Harbor Freight 3.5 digit freebee, It ISN"T.
The battery is mechanically keyed to prevent reverse insertion , use the holder on the bale, it's virtually impossible to insert the battery the wrong way, you'd have to be a real idiot to defeat it. BUT it's pretty easy to break stuff when you power it up while you have the back off spread out on the bench> Not using the bale holder thing is what messed you up Pedro.


I PM'd Pedro before about this "drift" data and he went silent yet here he is again spreading the gospel according to one or two reports from EEVblog. Just out of curiosity to check one of claims of bandgaps, I tested the U61E stability over temperature myself. I didnt see any noise or weird drift. I reckon all the folks inc. Pedro trying to get more "improvements" into their 61Es are the ones reporting wonky (drift) behavior have probably broke something. Only if UniT put a calibration seal sticker over the back cover we wouldn't have these internet reports of breakage. haha It is what it is, use it and be happy.
For the money UT61E is really good, the nearest Greenlee cant hold a candle to it.In my work a DMM is NOT the holy grail in test equipment. Thankfully we have o-scopes and spectrum / network analyzers, so no not a fanboy.
One can only wonder why some of these internet warriors want to slander a cheap meter, I'm not knocking their decision to dedicate their test budget on a super duper handheld meter. haha we don't need 60,000 counts to see an alternator AC vs RPM.

 

[joeqsmith]

Sorry, but "that guy" is actually very well knowlegeable and very well trusted. The work he does and the explorations he has done on this topic are quite sound from a technical perspective, even if fanboys don't like the outcome. The only discussion is how relevant are his results for you. For some, who want a device that can actually last and won't die easily they are worth every penny. If you either don't care how robust your meter is or treat it very very carefully never exposing it to high voltage, then his studies are not worth your time.

Hey Pedro, hope all is well.

The results and how I run the tests has always been open to the public. It's a fair amount of effort to run them and there is no paypack. Turning the testing into more of a review adds a fair amount of time.

In the future I am looking forward to running the new 121GW and seeing how it stacks up.