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Bubbles in poly - thoughts?

lyonkster

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Having some issues with bubbles forming in the waterbased polyurethane coating I'm applying, and could use some suggestions.

I'm using this product, and my plan was to apply two coats at about 0.006" thickness (they recommend no more than 0.010" per coat).

But after applying the recommended epoxy primer and the first coat of poly (which I rolled on using their recommended roller, with the recommended two direction rolling action), I noticed lots of bubbles forming:



So I stopped, and will sand the finish after it cures and will apply another coat, but I'd like to avoid having the bubbles again.

I talked to the manufacturer of the poly, and they said the bubbles are most likely due to concrete outgassing, and that the second coat should have much fewer bubbles since most of the surface is now sealed by the first coat of poly. Sort of makes sense to me, although I am not convinced that the existing bubbles do not form tunnels which will then lead to bubbles in the next coat.

The other line of reasoning is that the bubbles are formed from the application technique - either too thick a coating, too much back and forth rolling, etc (although both were done per manufacturer's recommendations). From what I read, lots of folks seem to recommend a t-bar applicator rather than a roller, something like this. The idea seems to be that the coat thickness will be thinner, and there won't be bubbles introduced by rolling, since this applicator pushes the poly around rather than rolls it.

I asked the manufacturer of my poly about this type of applicator, and he said he never heard of it. I talked to the manufacturer of the roller, and he said it should work fine even with thick coatings, like my ~60% solids poly.

Any thoughts on this, and how to proceed with my next coat so that it hopefully becomes my last? Same technique as before, or switch to the t-bar and go thinner (about 0.003")?
 
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LegacyIndustrial

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Screen the floor and recoat. There are a few possible reasons that the bubbles occured and i doubt its outgassing as you primed it.




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Shea

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Definitely on board with Scotty. You won't have outgassing with a primer already applied.

Be careful not to introduce air into the mix if you are using a jiffy mixer. That will create bubbles no matter how it is applied. With polyurethane it's thin to win for the best application.
 
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lyonkster

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Thanks Scotty and Shea, appreciate your inputs. Would you suggest using the same approach as before (epoxy rated roller, aiming for about 0.006"), or the t-bar applicator with a thinner coat, maybe 0.003"? Do folks use t-bar applicators for high solids urethanes?

Shea, I agree about the jiffy mixer, my plan was to stir it with a mixing stick next time (I am only using about 1/2 gal at a time) - is that reasonable?
 

boobag

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Are you using foam roller? Keep the roller more wet...very wet....dripping. Dont try to squeeze out liquid from roller as you roll..
Don't press down on roller as you roll. And don't try to roll thin.
Think of a sponge...you squeeze ...you get bubbles. Same applies to roller.

Or get a regular nap roller.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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You should have fine results with a standard roller. I roll all my urethanes with 3/8" nap , with no issues. Take your time, move the roller slowly and don't whip up the mix as Shea mentioned.
 
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lyonkster

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I was using this 3/8" roller. I also have this 1/4" roller, I can try that for a change (?).

BTW, I should have mentioned earlier that the epoxy primer that goes with this urethane is not a high build high solids epoxy, but is a waterbased epoxy with only 25% solids that goes on very thin. The manufacturer rep said that it's designed to be only an adhesion promoter, not a sealer, so it's not designed to contain concrete outgassing. But now that I have a layer of poly on the surface, hopefully the problem won't reoccur. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll report back after I try again (fingers crossed).
 
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lyonkster

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So I sanded the urethane, cleaned the floor, and reapplied the urethane in a much thinner layer. I used a 1/4" nap roller, rolling the urethane from a paint tray. It went on much better than before, and gave a much nicer finish - the original coat was very orange-peely, while this one was smooth as silk. The only thing that kept it from being perfect was that in all the places where the bubbles were, I ended up with dark spots (they feel completely smooth to the touch, but they do detract from the appearance). But oh well, it's done, and it's a basement workshop, not a museum, so time to move on. Thanks for all the guidance guys!

 

Hpozzuoli

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I know in my world you don't want to shake poly prior to using it. Stir slowly and let it sit. Also, go slowly with the applicator and don't scrub like you are cleaning a floor. I am a contractor and occasionally refinish hardwood floors. I have done a lot and it takes time and discipline.
 
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lyonkster

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I know in my world you don't want to shake poly prior to using it. Stir slowly and let it sit. Also, go slowly with the applicator and don't scrub like you are cleaning a floor. I am a contractor and occasionally refinish hardwood floors. I have done a lot and it takes time and discipline.

I knew not to shake the poly, but this time around I did not stir it with the jiffy mixer, but used a stirring stick. I also put it on much thinner than before. So it worked well the second time, I got no bubbles - just some shadows from where the original bubble craters were. But it looks good, I'm happy :).
 
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