Buddy system gone wrong $$$

[mrpowderkeg]

I've got a good friend who has been helping me with my shop, He's been kinda the foreman of the whole project, since he use to build homes. So he has the skill set that I don't. He has helped me out a lot on this project, and probably as 16 to 18 hours in on it. Before we started, he said he would help me out, since in the past I have helped him out, the whole buddy system thing. So now I guess his woman is mad at me for having him help me for "free" and I think he now feels like I have taken advantage of him, though he has never said anything to me about it, he just has disappeared, and left me "hanging" on getting things done. My other friend has stepped up, and even though we are not carpenters or home builders, we have been able to get things done, he is a proponent of the "buddy system" and I have helped him build his shop last year.

Yet in the past I have helped carpenter buddy with many projects, let him use my shop and tools. From transmission converter swaps, tuning his engine, to mounting and dismounting tires, welding etc... I have never asked for anything but to drink some beer with me.

I really don't want this whole project to come between us, I would gladly pay him his $30.00hr. I'm afraid this whole money thing already has though... If he would have said $30.00 and hr beforehand I would have no problem. Either way, Carpenter friend has alrady had his car at my other buddy's shop, used his tools etc... and he knew he could do the same at mine when it is built, we all work on our cars and drag race together. I think 18 hours of work is a pretty good price to have a complete shop at your disposal and a friend to help as needed, as he does not have any facilities to do this stuff in, or hardly any of the required tools. Yet we have already discussed a head swap, and other upgrades to do to his car this winter. I don't know if he sees all the work done on the cars and trucks as work. I think maybe he sees the car part of it as "fun" time instead of work time. I need to talk to carpenter buddy, and get this squared away. Has anyone had to deal with this before? How did you resolve this?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

First off, you are looking at the wrong person. You should be dealing with his wife/girlfriend as she is the one wearing the pants in the household. Ask if $30.00 an hour would be fair compensation for services rendered. Whatever she answers, agree to it and ask for a check for the difference between the hours he spent (16 to 18) and the time you have spent helping him with projects over the past year plus shop and tool rental at 50% of the hourly rate.

Once she sees the difference and what it would cost elsewhere, she might have a change in heart. If not, you haven't lost anything. If he ever grows a pair of balls and lets her know to **** out, he might make a good friend again.

 

[pop pop]

Just ring him up and ask him what is wrong?

 

[mrpowderkeg]

Well I just got off the phone with my other buddy, the one who has helped me out without any questions asked. I guess him and carpenter buddy had a phone conversation about this today. It does come down to $$$. As I had to pay another guy to help with the rafters, we needed another ninja that knew what he was doing. This other guy was no one I have met before, not a friend, nor have I helped him. I think I have made up my mind to pay carpenter buddy off, and if he wants work done on his cars, he will have to pay me to do it, if that is how he wants to work stuff out. Except I know he does not have the money to pay someone to help him, or pay me to help him. That was never the point in the past, we did it because we were a team, and we helped each other out. I just feel as if I am in a pickle where there is no good solution.

 

[mellamoesrico]

Good luck

 

[Imcrazy]

You thought he was your buddy. He wasn't, he was just using you to get his car worked on for free.

Some people are like that. They are called users.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Just ring him up and ask him what is wrong?

Otherwise it is all speculation. If he says it is about the money, or even if not, offer it to him. Might be all it takes.

Jim

Edit, nevermind. It is obvious what is going on. Friends like that you do not need.

 

[65Stang]

A good "buddy" would have said something rather than get pissy and not show up or talk about .

 

[Mmfh]

You know this guy is probably really your friend, but the thing is you don't sleep with him. If his wife is on his **** to quit if you are not getting paid, life is going to be easier for him if he makes peace at home. Sorry but the wife is always going to win.

If you like this guy, want to continue to be his friend, call him up and tell him how you feel and see what's up. Hey man, is your wife being hard on you about this???

If he is really a friend you want to keep, maybe understand his side a little, call him up and work something out. He may not always be with her, but one hopes their friends are always going to be there.

Good Luck!

Mm

 

[Jay_mc1]

I’ve had a similar situation happen to me before. Part of you wants to tell the guy where to go, the other part wants to be the better person and just deal with it.
In one situation I did pay the guy for his help, although I have helped him move 3 times using my pickup and my trailers, and have also loaned him trailers to haul cars etc. He doesn't see it that way I guess. He is the kind of guy that only calls when he needs something. I would loan him tools, and he would act pissed off when I asked for them back. The last thing he asked to borrow was a motorcycle helmet so he could take his motorcycle driving test. I told him I would look for them and that he could borrow them. When I couldn't find them he got mad at me, and I told him to just go buy his own. I haven't heard from him since. It might be a blessing in disguise.
I would recommend paying the guy for his services because his wife won’t let him live it down and will continue to nag to him until he does say something. Then find someone else for help on your building.

 

[tininjun67]

a good friend of mine did some wiring at my shop a long time ago. he didn't have a ladder tall enough to do the job and said that was going to be my fee for the job: buy him the ladder. He's had that ladder fifteen years now. If this guy is really a friend keep him. If he's like most of my friends who only call when they want something repaired/welded, it's cheaper to pay him off and forget it. only you can decide

 

[mmack66]

It's probably going to require some activity that involves his wife.

 

[draglink]

.......wait for it....

 

[PT Doc]

Straight up talk is needed, but be clear that there needs to be payment both ways unless you want to pay him and then help him for free. Is he a great guy?

 

[aka Larry]

A true good friend is damn hard to find. The ones who will help you and don't have to be asked. The ones that will get up in the middle of the night or drive many miles when you call. The ones who will loan you money if you really needed it. Some people are users and always will be. They have no idea they are even doing it.

I hate to say it, but if this guy has conveniently forgotten all the free work you have done for him over the years vs. 18 hours of recent help on your building, then you are better off without him.

Try sitting down one day and making a list of the people in your life, even including family, that will help you NO MATTER WHAT. Unless you are extremely fortunate, you won't need a sheet of paper, the smallest sized post-it note will probably be too large. Not counting my family, I have a list of just TWO friends that I'd put into this category. I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad about that.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Try sitting down one day and making a list of the people in your life, even including family, that will help you NO MATTER WHAT. Unless you are extremely fortunate, you won't need a sheet of paper, the smallest sized post-it note will probably be too large. Not counting my family, I have a list of just TWO friends that I'd put into this category. I'm not sure if I should be happy or sad about that.

Same here. I see it as quality over quantity!

Jim

 

[kengoff]

there is some pretty good advice going on here

 

[Capstone]

Tough call, but I'm with Mmfh on this one. It's really the wife. Your "Buddy" will bail everytime pretty much for whims of his wife and it seems like she's got a burr up her **** about him "Spending" his time like it's free, instead of just seeing it for what it really is IMO, which is Golf or Bowling with a friend. Obviously her beef is really about money or time, neither of which she wants wasted on you. Period. He's in a tough spot too, but there's no point rubbing his nose in it, a lot of us have been there too and we know exactly what's happening. There's only one way to fix this... somehow make her see the value of the friendship without money being passed back and forth. If she's not able to appreciate that concept, then move on.

 

[hh76]

Couple questions

Was payment, or skill trade discussed, or just assumed?

How much time did he actually put in. What seems like 18hrs to you can actually be a lot more when you consider driving/phone calls/random time thinking about project.

Did you discuss how involved he would be? Big difference between helping out, and driving a project.


In the end, it comes down to communication. He shouldn't be afraid to say he doesn't have time, and you shouldn't be afraid to ask him what's up.

 

[camarotoolman]

You help me build my my house, i"ll help you build yours. I've been f##ked twice by my "best" friends. I'll help anybody for 1 or 2 hours, no charge,but after that youre paying. Kick that ***** whiped guy and this old lady to the curb and move on. Let some other chup fix his cars.

 

[jrsulo]

I dont charge "True" friends anything ,anytime....Friends is a strong word,and when money is involved for what ever reason,you find out real fast who the "True" ones are !!

 

[rodm1]

Well I just got off the phone with my other buddy, the one who has helped me out without any questions asked. I guess him and carpenter buddy had a phone conversation about this today. It does come down to $$$. As I had to pay another guy to help with the rafters, we needed another ninja that knew what he was doing. This other guy was no one I have met before, not a friend, nor have I helped him. I think I have made up my mind to pay carpenter buddy off, and if he wants work done on his cars, he will have to pay me to do it, if that is how he wants to work stuff out. Except I know he does not have the money to pay someone to help him, or pay me to help him. That was never the point in the past, we did it because we were a team, and we helped each other out. I just feel as if I am in a pickle where there is no good solution.

I think you have the best solution although it's $hitty. I assume you never where at the top of his list of buddy's.

I dont charge "True" friends anything ,anytime....Friends is a strong word,and when money is involved for what ever reason,you find out real fast who the "True" ones are !!

You are 200% right!

 

[mrpowderkeg]

I had asked if we could frame my shop, as that is all I really needed help with, He said since I have helped him out so many times, that yes he could, I asked what he wanted, and he reluctantly said not to worry about it because of all the stuff we did in the past. So that is what took place. I am really thankful for the help he has provided for me. As I am sure he was thankful for the help I have given him. When I finished this shop, I was going to purchase and ship to his home all the stuff we need to install a good exhaust system on his car as a "thanks" and a celebratory few nights of wrenching and beer installing it in the new shop. Now I need to talk to him to see what he wants to make things right in his world. I'll just pay him, and be done with it, and forget about it. I will keep track of my expenses from now on if that is the way to keep things fair in his world. Mmfh is spot on IMO. But women don't see the value of things like guys do, they don't understand the brotherhood and give and take when you have an inner circle of friends. Once they **** in, they ruin it.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I would not be so quick to put the blame squarely on the woman..it's the guy who stays with/gives in/gives up/etc. things to stay with the woman who is to blame. In that situation, who is the stupid one?

I have ZERO tolerance for people who do not appreciate the work I do for them, and have found the best way to deal with it is to stop helping them out. I can't stand unappreciative friends...or their significant others!

 

[jrherald420]

I would explain to him that you were on a barter system in which hes helps you and in return you help him on his cars. I would say i will gladly pay you for your time but if you want any repair work done from me in the future my rate is a flat fee of **.** amount of dollars per hour and that's that. I would also shove the same BS line about your wife wanting you to get paid for your time for working on his junk down his throat. I dont give a **** what my wife says about me helping my friends out with some thing, thats my dealings not hers.

 

[nosnerd]

First off, you are looking at the wrong person. You should be dealing with his wife/girlfriend as she is the one wearing the pants in the household. Ask if $30.00 an hour would be fair compensation for services rendered. Whatever she answers, agree to it and ask for a check for the difference between the hours he spent (16 to 18) and the time you have spent helping him with projects over the past year plus shop and tool rental at 50% of the hourly rate.

Once she sees the difference and what it would cost elsewhere, she might have a change in heart. If not, you haven't lost anything. If he ever grows a pair of balls and lets her know to **** out, he might make a good friend again.

yup..that soinds about right...just make sure someone is around ....a witness of sorts...so there are no more 'misunderstandings' so to say...

 

[Kevin54]

He was not your buddy to begin with. You were friends because he needed you. If he really was a true friend, he'd stand up to his wife and tell her how that you've always been there to help him out and now he's there to help you. But she has his balls on display and he's not friend enough to either say something to you, or to her.

I'd call him, or catch him when he's over at your other buddy's house and corner him on it. If he say's it's about the money, I'd pull out the checkbook, write him a check as to what you feel is fair to both, remind him of all the times you helped him out, then after you hand him the check and reminder, tell him to **** off and find another friend to sponge off of.

When it all boils down to it, there may be only one or two true friends you'll have in your entire life. The rest either don't have any nuts because of their wife, or they just use you until they get done using, then they are gone.

 

[Terry454]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:
Is there a chance his financial situation changed recently? A lost or reduced hours job? Wife/GF lost job? Sudden unexpected expenses for him? A new child? I am just suggesting there may be expenses for him now that there weren't before.
Terry

 

[jwhcars]

If you end up paying him more than $600.00 you can give him a 1099.
That should take care of the contoling wife.

 

[luvmyglockfou]

Always being able to fix nearly everything, always having the tools needed for jobs, and more importantly having the heart to help others has been a plague for me. I am CONSTANTLY encountering users. They hang out for a while, telling me they need to do XYZ, then when I help them they are gone once they get what they needed.

That being said, I have NEVER heard a more true statement than the following:

When it all boils down to it, there may be only one or two true friends you'll have in your entire life. The rest either don't have any nuts because of their wife, or they just use you until they get done using, then they are gone.

 

[Cougar]

Pretty good song on this topic.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment:
Is there a chance his financial situation changed recently? A lost or reduced hours job? Wife/GF lost job? Sudden unexpected expenses for him? A new child? I am just suggesting there may be expenses for him now that there weren't before.
Terry

Yeah an engagement ring, and a mortgage.

 

[crewchief888]

It's probably going to require some activity that involves his wife.

.......wait for it....

i cant hold back anymore...
in true GJ fashion

bang his wife

 

[Thumper]

Long ago I learned a lifes lesson the hard way.........Your "friends" are first to **** you......because.....they know they can get away with it. I see two ways out of this.....

1. Get him laid or....... Bang his wife

2. Pay him and tell him to **** off when he wants something else from you

I would go for number 2. You don't need "friends" like that.

 

[nine4gmc]

i cant hold back anymore...
in true GJ fashion

bang his wife

you made my day

 

[ckadams00]

A good "buddy" would have said something rather than get pissy and not show up or talk about .

Agreed.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I had asked if we could frame my shop, as that is all I really needed help with, He said since I have helped him out so many times, that yes he could, I asked what he wanted, and he reluctantly said not to worry about it because of all the stuff we did in the past. So that is what took place. I am really thankful for the help he has provided for me. As I am sure he was thankful for the help I have given him. When I finished this shop, I was going to purchase and ship to his home all the stuff we need to install a good exhaust system on his car as a "thanks" and a celebratory few nights of wrenching and beer installing it in the new shop. Now I need to talk to him to see what he wants to make things right in his world. I'll just pay him, and be done with it, and forget about it. I will keep track of my expenses from now on if that is the way to keep things fair in his world. Mmfh is spot on IMO. But women don't see the value of things like guys do, they don't understand the brotherhood and give and take when you have an inner circle of friends. Once they **** in, they ruin it.

Don't blanket statement women It is his woman that's putting pressure on him. And he can't be straight with you.

Anyway, sounds like she won't realize what being a friend is about until he gets injured or out of commission that he can't work and get things done and she needs help. Their loss.

If I were you, I'd just send him money and a short thanks. Then go on without him. I'd be willing to bet that in the future he'll come crawling back when he needs something. What you do is obviously up to you.

 

[Toolman12]

When i met my wife we were having a conversation one night about how much time i spend with my friends working on our cars a various projects to make our lives better for us and our family's. When she hinted that i stop this behavior and spend more time with her i told her straight up if you work me against my friends you'll get left out in the cold never had a problem again with that B.S. Many years have gone by happily and we all get along great. As for your buddy just talk to him and find out what is the real story is. IMHO

 

[yost69]

I wouldn't pay him. You helped him, he helped you. Your done.

I am helping my buddy build his house. I didn't ask nor do I expect payment in the form of cash. What I do expect is payment in the form of favors, and so far that is the way it is working out. But then again we have been friends since highschool, and my girlfriend doesn't give a **** what I do in my spare time.

 

[davedriveschevys]

This guy is no friend. I took the lead on building my buddies garage 30 x 50 with 14 foot walls and all built from rough cut lumber. I have hundreds of hours in helping him and have never once even considered taking a dime from him. Fast forward a few years later when I built my own shop, 32 x 32 with 16 foot walls , all I did was mention I was considering building it and my buddy was there no questions asked, and with helpers. There are tons of instances when we have helped each other out, and money has never exchanged hands between us. Why? Because we are friends.