Budget Sockets

[bigpasta]

I recently returned and got a refund on the following Sears 1/4" socket set:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00934270000P?i_cntr=1300724989615

I returned it for all the reasons already stated in the following thread,(especially the same reasons stated by nexum1919):

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=941394

Also, the thin profile ratchet that came with the set didn't work with about 1/3 of the sockets. The sockets would come on and off regardless of the quick release button being pressed or not. I oiled the botton and the detent ball with no luck.

I took it to my nearest Sears, (1 hour away,) and tried two other 1/4" thin profile ratchets with the set and had the same issue. I got the refund with no hassle.

So I decided to go full-on low budget and pick up Harbor Freight's new Pittsburgh Pro and Autozone's GreatNeck 1/4" sockets. (Note: I've gone for years without a 1/4" socket set so I don't need an expensive set. I'm just looking to round out and complete my ratchet and socket toolsets.)

What's interesting is how similar the GreatNeck and Pittsburgh Pro sockets look. Here are some pictures comparing the 5mm and 14mm sockets: (Great Neck on the left and Pittsburgh Pro on the right)

5mm

14mm

The GreatNeck metric (24 piece) and SAE (20 piece) sets are less expensive than the Pittsburg Pro sets. The GreatNeck metric set includes 4mm and 5.5mm regular and deep while the Pittsburgh Pro leaves them out.

I haven't "tested" any of the sockets as I'm probably going to return them anyways since I "discovered" I already had a basic 1/4 socket set buried in a tub out in my shed.

I really wanted that Craftsman set to be good because they are made in USA and I wanted to be able to have some confidence in Craftsman again,(I had a bad experience with Craftsman over 10 years ago and hadn't bought anything from them since until now.)


-Bp

 

[dede2897234]

bigpasta,

Thanks for taking the time to creating this thread. I found the comparison pictures very interesting. I wonder which Chinese company makes both the Great Neck and Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Pro sockets.

I do not blame you returning the Craftsman socket set. Sometimes I wonder if there is a final quality control process step at the U.S. Danaher plant because of the poor plating quality on the sockets. As mentioned on this board many times, the quality and durability of Craftsman sockets was much better 10 to 20 years ago.


Dave

 

[porphyre]

bigpasta,

Thanks for taking the time to creating this thread. I found the comparison pictures very interesting. I wonder which Chinese company makes both the Great Neck and Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Pro sockets.


Dave

Look at the drive end. Those sockets do not come off the same dies. The kicker is that the Great Necks are Chinese while the Pittsburgh Pros are Taiwanese.

 

[dede2897234]

Look at the drive end. Those sockets do not come off the same dies. The kicker is that the Great Necks are Chinese while the Pittsburgh Pros are Taiwanese.

porphyre,

I now see the slight differences in the drive ends between the 2 socket brands. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

I forgot that the new Pittsburgh Pro impact and non-impact sockets are made in Taiwan. I have been to a few Harbor Freight stores recently and did notice the new COO.


Thanks,

Dave

 

[neonnblack]

I was planning on buying sockets from hft, while getting ratchets from a higher brand, SO, matco, ext then replacing the sockets as i needed to. The Pitt Pro sockets seem to be pretty decent atm though and i dont think ill be replacing them that fast.

 

[route246]

If you watch the "How it's Made" video on youtube of the SO manufacturing process you can see that the machining is all done via some sort of tape mill or lathe or other industry standard process. Scoring lines in a socket and machining round-over edges are all more or less the same process. They probably just take one that is out there for sale and clone it. It doesn't require any R&D, lab testing or anything else. Just clone it and put it out there for sale and hope your alloy can handle the stresses applied to it.

Look at the drive end. Those sockets do not come off the same dies. The kicker is that the Great Necks are Chinese while the Pittsburgh Pros are Taiwanese.

 

[TheGrooveking]

Look at the drive end. Those sockets do not come off the same dies. The kicker is that the Great Necks are Chinese while the Pittsburgh Pros are Taiwanese.

No they do, what you are mixing up, is the broaching for the square drive looks to be different depths, when in reality the concave portion of the relief is deeper on one than the other.

As to the type of machine used, it would be a screw machine that is used. So the depth difference is from the setup of that particular cutting tool(ball end mill). This is cut before the square drive is put into it for two reasons, that way the round end tool is not making interrupted cuts which would lead to cutting edge chipping and two, the concave area acts as a leadin for the next operation.


TheGrooveking

 

[bigpasta]

The GN and HF PP are both made in Taiwan:

I don't know if it's lack of quality control with Craftsman or if they just don't care. Another interesting thing about the Craftsman sockets I received in that set is they weren't the easy-to-read style, but everything nexum1919 says about the bad detents were true of the sockets in my set:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=934297#post934297

Some of the sockets also already had rust inside. Maybe if I had gotten the set for $20 I might have kept it. I paid around $53 with discounts, but it takes some poorly chromed balls for Craftsman to charge $80 for that set in the store.

 

[porphyre]

No they do, what you are mixing up, is the broaching for the square drive looks to be different depths, when in reality the concave portion of the relief is deeper on one than the other.

As to the type of machine used, it would be a screw machine that is used. So the depth difference is from the setup of that particular cutting tool(ball end mill). This is cut before the square drive is put into it for two reasons, that way the round end tool is not making interrupted cuts which would lead to cutting edge chipping and two, the concave area acts as a leadin for the next operation.


TheGrooveking

So the ball detent being wider on both HF sockets is just a quality control issue that's brand specific?

That's not really how branding works. Branded tools are identical across brand names. The only differences are the names stamped on them.

Of course, the two brands COULD be manufactured by the same company... but then we get into that grey area everyone loves about "Matco = Craftsman because they're both made by Dahaner!!!"

 

[TheGrooveking]

So the ball detent being wider on both HF sockets is just a quality control issue that's brand specific?

That's not really how branding works. Branded tools are identical across brand names. The only differences are the names stamped on them.

Of course, the two brands COULD be manufactured by the same company... but then we get into that grey area everyone loves about "Matco = Craftsman because they're both made by Dahaner!!!"

Wrong, do not confuse branding with manufacturing process variables. They use the same machines and as obvious by looking at the design of the socket and all of the similiarities. The difference you are referencing is only a setup issue, as that the cutter that produces the ball detent could easily be set differently if there was a new set up.

Breaking down the process the socket machining steps go thru the drive end interior work is pretty much the same for all sockets in a given drive size, i.e. 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" etc. I ran a company that produced tooling for many of the big manufacturing companies, such as Delphi, Briggs & Stratton, Harley-Davidson, Ford, what is probably the biggest potential for this difference is a resharpened tool was used, thus it would cut less deep than a new tool would. With cutting tools, versus drill bits, you lose the diameter of the tool, like you would in grinding back/sharpening a reamer or end mill.

If you go through any brand of sockets you will see some variability from socket to socket. Also don't mistake Matco sockets with Craftsman sockets, if you handle them both you'll quickly see/feel the differences. Craftsman sockets and Armstrong sockets are very close but the Matco brand sockets are different. Danaher has more than a few manufacturing plants producing tooling.

TheGrooveking

 

[dede2897234]

Wrong, do not confuse branding with manufacturing process variables. They use the same machines and as obvious by looking at the design of the socket and all of the similiarities. The difference you are referencing is only a setup issue, as that the cutter that produces the ball detent could easily be set differently if there was a new set up.

Breaking down the process the socket machining steps go thru the drive end interior work is pretty much the same for all sockets in a given drive size, i.e. 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" etc. I ran a company that produced tooling for many of the big manufacturing companies, such as Delphi, Briggs & Stratton, Harley-Davidson, Ford, what is probably the biggest potential for this difference is a resharpened tool was used, thus it would cut less deep than a new tool would. With cutting tools, versus drill bits, you lose the diameter of the tool, like you would in grinding back/sharpening a reamer or end mill.

If you go through any brand of sockets you will see some variability from socket to socket. Also don't mistake Matco sockets with Craftsman sockets, if you handle them both you'll quickly see/feel the differences. Craftsman sockets and Armstrong sockets are very close but the Matco brand sockets are different. Danaher has more than a few manufacturing plants producing tooling.

TheGrooveking

TheGrooveking,

Thanks for sharing your professional insights on the manufacturing of the two socket brands. It was an interesting read.


Dave