Buffalo 18 Military DP (Motor?)

[NilesRock]

Picked up this drill press yesterday in San Francisco for $75 bucks. According to the seller he bought it from ANAS (Alameda Naval Air Station) about 20-30 years ago. The original 3 phase motor is long gone and has been replaced with a Dayton single phase 1 HP, 1750 rpm, 3/4" shaft motor, frame 66NJ as seen in the pictures provided from the sellers post.

The motor needs bearings at a minimum as it is loud and rumbles when turned off. The motor may or may not have serviceable bearings. I am thinking even if serviceable it may be better to get another motor.

Looking at different Buffalo 18 manuals they state 3/4 HP maximum motor. I have a 17" Delta Rockwell DP with a 1HP motor and the Delta Rockwell DP doesn't appear to be as robust as the Buffalo Forge Co 18 DP. Is it better to change from a 1 HP motor to the Buffalo factory recommended 3/4 HP motor?

Also, the current Dayton motor has many ventilation slots on the ends of it. Is that design of motor correct for a drill press?

Any comments welcome.

 

[nadogail]

Dayton Motors are a Grainger house brand, IMHO they are generally OK for most users and are sold at Competetive Prices.

For your purpose you might seriously consider a TEFC motor (totally enclosed fan cooled) to keep chips, dust, grit, and filings out of the motor.

I would not recommend a low priced general purpose motor for this application.

 

[NilesRock]

Thank you nadogail. My Rockwell 17" has a TEFC motor and that's part of the reason I was thinking the Dayton motor isn't quite right. I agree a replacement motor for the drill press should not be a cheapie.

After looking into more Buffalo #18 manuals it looks like eventually the Morse taper #3 spindle became standard and the 1 HP motor so no longer looking into downsizing the motor.

The pulley on the Buffalo #18 has a 3/4" bore and it seems 3/4 inch shaft motors aren't common anymore. A different 3/4" shaft motor may require drilling and tapping the motor mount. The more common 5/8 inch shaft motor would mean the pulley would need to be sleeved. Given the choice probably better to drill and tap the motor bracket assembly than sleeve the pulley?

 

[rsanter]

Screw the HP rating.
Original on that was a three phase 440v motor.
Those motors may only been rated for 3/4hp, but they will have a bunch more torque than the little motor you have on there now.

You need to put a minimum of 1hp single phase motor on that if not more.

Hell if it was me I would put a 1-2hp three phase and a VFD on it and have a drag *** drill press

 

[NilesRock]

Thank you rsanter.

I'm going to look at an old school cast iron mount 1hp single phase later this week. Seller says it runs and the bearing are good.

 

[nadogail]

Motion Industries or Kaman Industrial Technologies can probably be of assistance in sourcing an appropriate pulley for your motor.

 

[Firebrick43]

I would recommend a vfd with a 3/4 or 1 hp motor if staying 120v, a 1.5 or 2 hp is going to require 240v.

I have a 3/4 IDNM 3842 on my Delta 14 inch and with the VFD it is awesome for tapping with the instant reverse and very quiet as well. The 3/4 does well with my 14" but the 18" is substantially more of a DP! It looks like you have the correct pulley.

The issue with more hp is belt ratings. If you look at at gates or martin belt design manual I would be apt to say that you would be at the torque limits of the belt especially at the lowest rpm due to low belt wrap. Putting a larger motor will not help. Give me the belt width(probably a B belt) and the small and largest pulley diameters and I can look it up.

As for hp, while a 3 phase motor is smoother, hp is hp. Its torque X rpm / 5252. If you do standardize test you cant cheat that, and reputable motor manufactures state clearly the specs, dayton while not the most robust or durable, is still a reputable manufacture when it comes to motors. Make sure you get a 1725 rpm motor and not 3600.

 

[NilesRock]

Thank you nadogail and Firebrick43.

Last night I took apart the Dayton 1 HP motor and although it was working it's in bad shape. Inside there's a bunch of black debris that's anywhere from a greasy substance to oily. It saturated all the leads to the connection posts and parts of it are bare wire. When I removed the end cap and the wires moved they deteriorated to the point where they are brittle and the cloth like insulation material cracked and basically disintegrated. Fixing this motor is beyond my scope of ability so on to another motor.

I can get a NOS Dayton 3/4 HP 1725 rpm motor with a 3/4" shaft as it's listed on CL and has been for some time. This motor most likely is a direct replacement for the Dayton 1 HP however not sure if the shaft has a keyway slot will find out this evening.

I spoke with the owner of Buffalo Machine Inc and he was very nice and informed me they have lots of new and used parts which is great. The No. 18 DP is still made to order, price about $5,000 without electronics. He said using a sleeve for the 3/4" bore pulley down to 5/8" inch shouldn't be a concern. Also, the new No. 18 drill presses they sell are equipped with 3/4 HP motors.

New pulleys are very expensive as now they are machined out of billet aluminum. The used pulleys are just expensive about $250.00 each but they probably have a 5/8" or 7/8" bore motor pulley which are now the common motor shaft sizes. All used parts are guaranteed to be in great condition.

As far as the belt section it's either an "A" or 4L the pulley grooves are .500" wide. The sizes on slow speed are 2.25" and 9.625" which puts the spindle speed at approximately 400 rpm.

Thanks again for the help and recommendations.

 

[nadogail]

I am Glad to have been of assistance.

 

[Doozer75]

If you are going to drill holes in steel,
consider a 1200 or 900 rpm motor.
Note the tag in your picture shows 2 motors.
1800 rpm motor running at 60 hz,
1800 rpm motor running at 50 hz, and
1200 rpm motor running at 60 hz.
I have a drill press with a 900 rpm single phase motor
and it is really nice for drilling steel. You actually want to
use more of the step pulley ranges with the slower motor
instead of just leaving the belt on the bottom sheave all the time.

-Doozer

 

[Augus7us]

You can probably get a step pulley that will work off of amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=step+pully&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

For what its worth, I've had quite a few drill presses. My largest was a powermatic 1200 with a four foot table. It and my two 20" units all used a 1HP motor. I restored the Jet 20" for about 100$ in parts from Jet. Not much more than I paid

Because everyone likes pictures.

 

[NilesRock]

Last night I picked up the Dayton 3/4 HP motor. The person selling used to work in a motor shop. When I lifted it to see how heavy it is a noise was heard. Shaking the motor made the noise louder kind of sounded like glass or a spring.

We tried to shake whatever was making the noise out of the motor. Within 5 minutes the seller had the motor apart and somehow an old style ceramic VW fuse found it's way into the motor. About 10 minutes later the motor was up and running again.

The motor is a direct replacement for the 1 HP Dayton but while bolting it on I noticed the motor bracket rods are loose. They aren't pinned in and don't have a set screw so I will drill and tap the motor bracket and install some set screws.

Although not the ideal motor it should work good until something better comes along and would make a great motor for a new single cylinder Champion compressor pump waiting to be put to use.

 

[Firebrick43]

As far as the belt section it's either an "A" or 4L the pulley grooves are .500" wide. The sizes on slow speed are 2.25" and 9.625" which puts the spindle speed at approximately 400 rpm.

Thanks again for the help and recommendations.

So my gate design manual doesn’t list A belts on less than three inch sheaves as they don’t recommend it. A series belts are dimensionally the same as 4l belts but stiffer due to the increased reinforcement so the don’t do well around small diameter wraps.

My browning manual list 1.13 hp for that size sheaves but it’s highlighted that it’s not recommended. An AX belt, again same dimensions, but is notched, will take 1.73 hp. AX will be smoother and about 3% more efficient as well.

A 4l will be maxed out at 3/4 hp. This is all with a 1725 rpm motor. It will be less hp with a 1200 or 900 rpm motor. The issue is torque limitations.

Remember while 4l and A/AX are dimensionally the same 4l belts are measured OD and A/AX ID so a 4L-400 (40” od) will be an AX38 belt.

 

[Doozer75]

Hey Firebrick- That is some good information you posted about belt capacity. Thanks for that. I had wondered why my lathe with a 4hp, 900 rpm motor has a 5 belt set of pulleys. I guess it needs all 5 belts to handle the torque. I just never thought to look up the belt capacity of a 4L belt at different speeds. Good post.

-Doozer

 

[Firebrick43]

Yea, most power transmissions are torque limited but everyone talks HP so that is what the charts are in. So if you have 3 motors, one 900, one 1725, and one 3600 and are all 1 hp the torque of the 900 rpm is twice of the 1724 and four times the 3600.

As with your lathe, the original solution with vee belts was to use multiple ones. Low speed high torque applications use to be chain. Now the industry uses polyvee (serpentine) belts and high capacity timing belts like poly chain.

A 16 rib K polyvee can handle over 20hp.

With drill presses once you get into drill ~1 inch holes they almost are always gear heads at least on the last reduction. The reeves drives on powermatic and deltas really didn’t do well, either did they on the larger 3hp Bridgeport’s. I have converted 3 series II Bridgeport’s to 3 phase motors,vfd’s polyvee belts/sheaves. They do much better in every way.

 

[NilesRock]

I would like to second the thank you to Firebrick. After reading his post last night I ended up searching Browning catalogs and am getting ready to order a Browning AX belt. Also thanks to Doozer and Augus7us.

In the quest to have more parts available another No. 18 was acquired from a ranch . The drill press was used in a shop/barn and exposed to lots of dirt. It doesn't have the original pulleys but I thought might as well get it parts is parts. The pluses are #3 Morse taper spindle, Jacobs ball bearing super chuck, decent 1/3 HP motor, heavier duty depth stop, and a production bench type table. The price was right but the drive was far.

So back to the AX belt I got the motor stand off the parts press and was getting ready to mount the motor. The mount has longer rods and fits deeper in the main casting so there's a lot less up and down play where the belt adjustment range is. Thinking about Firebricks' post and how the small pulley isn't recommended for 4L belt and 1 HP motor decided to closely inspect the motor pulley. Sadly the 2.25 inch step on that pulley is toast.

Lots of options now. Do I put the Military DP together and not use the slow speed pulley step? Kind of defeats the purpose of having a robust drill press if it doesn't run slow to use larger drill bits in steel.

Considering using the beater Buffalo as the slow speed set up. It has a cast iron 2 groove pulley which is 9.25". I have a cast iron 2.0" pulley that should take the abuse better than the 5 step pot metal factory pulley. Not sure if I could also do a smaller motor pulley for slower speed?

Firebrick got me thinking a lot more about v-belt power transmission systems and now I know to inspect those small pulleys better.

 

[NilesRock]

Screw the HP rating.

Hell if it was me I would put a 1-2hp three phase and a VFD on it and have a drag *** drill press

Originally Posted by Firebrick43
I would recommend a vfd with a 3/4 or 1 hp motor if staying 120v, a 1.5 or 2 hp is going to require 240v.

All the responses have been helpful. I may as well set up the beater rancher drill press for slow speed. The VFD option seems to be a good way to go for a slow speed drill press set up. I don't have a clue how a VFD works.

My coworker has the 1 HP three phase motor pictured that he's willing to part with. Can that motor be ran on 120 volts with a VFD? Is the 2 grove cast iron spindle pulley installed on the rancher the correct size (9.25") to use with a VFD?

According to the pulley calculator a 3" pulley on the motor at 1775 rpm would put the spindle speed at 575 rpm with 9.25" pulley. I used 3" to calculate because Firebrick referred to the Gates manual which lists that size as a minimum for A belts. The part I don't understand is where the rpm range would be with VFD. Does the VFD just slow the motor down and if so how much?

And Firebrick you mentioned the polyvee belts/sheaves set up. Would that be worthwhile for a Buffalo 18?

Once again thanks to everyone for posting and helping. It's been a long day and the bad pulley step threw a monkey wrench in the gears of progress here.

 

[Firebrick43]

A vfd controls the frequency going to the motor. At synchronous speed(60 hertz in the US) the motor will turn its name plate rpm. Most vfd’s can control the hrs from 0-200 hertz. So if you turn the vfd to 30 hertz it will turn half its rated speed. You can also reverse directions, set acceleration and deceleration, and about a 1000 other parameters(seriously, but you will truly only need about 10-12 of them).

Not only does this allow slowing things down but limiting inrush amps(accel), stopping fast in an emergency(decel) and things like power tapping(with instant reverse, smaller taps only due to chuck mounting).

Now for that motor. IMHO lesson is the best overall motor manufacture. This is not to say baldor, SEW, or WEG has good models.

That motor has a good service factor, meaning at 1.25 it will put out 125% of hp for short periods of time. Good motors are 1.15.

F class insulation means it can with stand 155 degrees heat, probably not importantant on a home do but it does matter for vfd operation. Vfd voltage spikes and lack of fan cooling can cook an older motor with b class insulation. They recommend those older motors not be run under 30 hertz or half speed.

With f class insulation they recommend staying above 15 hertz for constant torque loads or about 250 rpm. Couple with even a 2:1 belt reduction and you have a good speed for larger bits. Also remember that electric motor have full torque from 0 to 60 hertz which is a good thing for large drilling at low hertz. You can easily drive that motor to 120 hertz as well(at least the motor can handle it which can be good for drilling small holes in non ferrous metals.

Inverter rated motors have h class insulation and can be run down in the 6 hertz range.
You could run that motor there for things such as small hole tapping but not large hole drilling.

It’s also a TENV motor meaning totally enclosed and non ventilation. So no fan or holes to worry about dirt or metal ingress. Again good for a drill press.

As for 1hp on 115v vfd, yes. You will want a 20 amp circuit, preferably dedicated but don’t run anything else on that circuit while doing heavy drilling. Also gfci plugs will trip if you try to run a vfd on that circuit.

I have a KB drive on my drill press as it has a NEMA 4 enclosure and everything needed for a drill press in an easy to mount configuration.
https://motorsandcontrol.com/kb-electronics-9987-kbac-24d-gray-1hp-1-phase-110-120v-200-240v-input-nema-4x-enclosure-variable-frequency-drives/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_source=adwords&utm_campaign=&keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw7C888Oc6wIVhJJbCh30MguoEAQYAiABEgLNGPD_BwE
The down side is cost, but reasonable compared to some other NEMA 4 vfd and no digital buttons to change speed or direction.

You could use a traditional vfd like a teco L510. They are the minimum quality to me while being much cheaper than a Mitsubishi or an Lenze AC tech. I don’t do cheap off brand Chinese drives. You should mount these drives in an enclosure and wire external controls up. Some people don’t put them in an enclosure, I do.
https://www.wolfautomation.com/vfd-1hp-115v-single-phase-ip20-med-duty/

 

[Firebrick43]

As for polyvee belts, I have done lathes and brigeports but the drill press I have used and ax. I thought about it but polyvee step pulleys are quite uncommon and it was going to be difficult to do the quill pulley do to the quills drive splines

 

[bad_idea]

A lot of information. I skimmed through it, so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else has said.

Electric motors get special bearings to run in a vertical application. Be sure the motor you use has the correct bearing type.

 

[908Jim]

Nice Find. It appears that Buffalo is still making drill presses in the USA, but their website is pretty light on sales info.

https://www.bmt-usa.com/

 

[Firebrick43]

Cheap motors you need to worry about vertical mounting because some of them use bushings.

Also in industrial applications such as some pumps, the pump is solidly mounted to the motor and the motor has to carry the thrust loads. These have to be special motors but a drill press doesn’t have thrust loads on the motor.

I have not seen any 3 phase TENV or TEFC that couldn’t be mounted vertically.

 

[NilesRock]

I would recommend a vfd with a 3/4 or 1 hp motor if staying 120v, a 1.5 or 2 hp is going to require 240v.

Firebrick,

Browsing the web for motors a new Leeson 1.5 HP 3 phase came up at a great clearance price. Would it be usable on 115 volts as long as the load isn't too much? So basically thinking it may work with smaller drill bits but would have to take it easy if going over 3/4" inch bits. The VFD link you posted seems like a very nice unit and the price reasonable. I'm going to start reading the manual to learn more.

Motor Description
General Purpose Farm Duty Motor, 3-Phase, 1-1/2 HP, Nameplate RPM 1750, Voltage 230/460, 3 Phase, Frame 145T, Totally Enclosed Fan-Cooled, Full Load Amps 4.8/2.4, 60/50 Hz, Rigid Base Motor Mounting Type, Motor Thermal Protection T-Stat, Ins. Class F, Motor Service Factor 1.15, Ball Motor Bearings, Max. Ambient Temperature 40 Degrees C, CWSE Motor Shaft Rotation, Overall Length 13 In., Shaft Dia. 7/8 In., Shaft Length 2-1/4 In., Motor Frame Material Rolled Steel

Thanks again,

 

[NilesRock]

Firebrick your quote above is right on point,

I found the answer to the above 1.5 HP question in the KB manual and it's no. A 1.5 HP motor would take the KBAC-27D VFD which needs 22 amps and standard 115 volt circuits max at 20 amps. On Monday I'll see how much my coworker wants for the 1 HP motor.