Buffer - Flex 3401 or PC 7424XP?

[fr0mastaj]

Since summer is rolling around, i think it's time for me to get a buffer! I used to borrow my friends 7424 (non XP) every summer, but I'd much rather have my own. I've always had great results with the 7424...

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/flex-kit-5.html

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/porter-cable-7424xp-kit-2.html

Im trying to decide between the PC 7424XP and Flex 3401... I am currently leaning heavily towards the PC strictly because it is half the cost of the Flex. But do you think I will regret it later down the road? I still have the Flex on my list because I am also believe in the buy once and done/you get what you pay for mentality.

In addition, is the Flex any harder to use than the PC? I have 2 black cars, and my future car will likely be black as well. Not sure if the Flex might not be as forgiving to use as the PC?

Thanks

 

[mikebramel]

Theres no comparison. Flex or Cyclo

 

[moronmountain]

Theres no comparison. Flex or Cyclo

How forgiving is the Flex compared to the PC?

 

[McKay]

I started with the PC. Did the job but is slow if you are constantly fixing swirls and scratches. Have the flex as well. Flex much faster for getting the heavy work done. I still use my PC for putting on wax/sealer and light machine polishing. I am glad I have them both.

 

[canuckian]

I have the Flex and love it. the beauty of it is that you can easily do light paint correction with it. I guess you could do that with the PC but it would take freaking forever! I have black vehicles as well and swirl marks and light scratches show up easily so I find I'm always buffing before waxing and the flex makes light work of it.

Check out any detailing forum (autogeek is a good one) and read the reviews of both and make your choice from there. I found that most people theat buy the PC end up upgrading to the flex after a while anyways.

but, if you've tried the PC and it does what you need it to do well, then get that one and save yourself a few $$.

 

[jjjrmx5]

If you do fleet work or detailing for a living, then the Flex is what you need.

95% of those I know including myself use the Porter Cable unit and love it. It's professional quality at a reasonable price and will last you a lifetime. If just doing a dozen cars a year, it's suited me just fine.

Now pads, abrasives, cleaners, polishes and waxes--that's where the $$$ come in.

 

[madmikeee]

If you do fleet work or detailing for a living, then the Flex is what you need.

95% of those I know including myself use the Porter Cable unit and love it. It's professional quality at a reasonable price and will last you a lifetime. If just doing a dozen cars a year, it's suited me just fine.

Now pads, abrasives, cleaners, polishes and waxes--that's where the $$$ come in.

Took the words right out of my mouth. My friends body shop used to ONLY use Porter Cable and they took one helluva beating and are still running after a decade plus. Sadly the shop got sold out from under him

 

[ChrisStarks]

If you're going to be doing anything more than basic detailing/polishing (colorsanding, buffing out scratches, etc.), there are only 2 choices. Dewalt and Makita. Anything else just won't cut it for serious polishing/buffing.

 

[00pewter]

I hear great stuff about both. However, I decided to try out the Meguiar's G110v2 alongside the Meguiar's DA Microfiber system. I picked it up over at ADS for about $230 shipped to my door.

You should check out meguiarsonline and look at some of the before/after picures of what the Microfiber DA system can do.

(and i'm not a Meguiar's fan boy by any means even though my post sounds like it, lol)

 

[oilslick]

My bodyman buddy killed his flex after 20yrs and bought a makita and is happy with it.

 

[jjjrmx5]

If you're going to be doing anything more than basic detailing/polishing (colorsanding, buffing out scratches, etc.), there are only 2 choices. Dewalt and Makita. Anything else just won't cut it for serious polishing/buffing.

I'd love to see a link and some spec's to the above tools you mention and level and quantity of detailing work you do.

I;ve seen and worked in production shops doing two to 4 fresh paint or paint rework vehicles a day and at times 6 days a week. That's 500 cars and SUV's a year min. A lot of air tools and a lot of Porter Cable 7424's but none you mention above. Hmmmm.

The Meguiars unit is obviously a rebranding/rebadging of an existing tool. Any idea of the mfgr., 'cause I KNOW it's not Barry Meguiar making them.

 

[fr0mastaj]

Well I will only be polishing at max 3 cars a year... So is the flex overkill then?

THe PC did take me many hours to achieve the level I wanted. Does the flex really work wonders noticably faster? That is a hefty premium!

 

[Monte]

FLEX

One of the Flex core competences is manufacturing polishers. They manufacture the broadest range of polishers in the world. And "Made in Germany" of course.

XC 3401 VRG

PE 14-2 150

L 3403 VRG

L 1503 VR

L 602 VR

L 1202

FLEX also make polishers for other famous companies like FESTOOL and MIRKA
www.Festool.de www.Mirka.com

 

[banzaitoyota]

I have a 7424 XP that I am happy with, just do my own cars so it doesnt get alot of use

 

[ChrisStarks]

I'd love to see a link and some spec's to the above tools you mention and level and quantity of detailing work you do.

I;ve seen and worked in production shops doing two to 4 fresh paint or paint rework vehicles a day and at times 6 days a week. That's 500 cars and SUV's a year min. A lot of air tools and a lot of Porter Cable 7424's but none you mention above. Hmmmm.

The Meguiars unit is obviously a rebranding/rebadging of an existing tool. Any idea of the mfgr., 'cause I KNOW it's not Barry Meguiar making them.

I don't do production work - I do restoration work... one car at a time. I've found that the tools used for production work are completely different from those used for restoration work. When I buff out a car, I'm going for perfection (or as close as I can get with the customers budget.) When I looked for my first buffer, I looked around at the local shops, as well as shops that post pictures of their work online. Most used Dewalt or Makita. I had good luck in the past with Dewalt corded drills, so I went with them. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. Every shop I've been to that specializes in restoration work has used either a Makita or Dewalt buffer. To tell the truth, I've never heard of either of the buffers mentioned earlier in this thread.
Specs on the Dewalt that I own are-
http://www.tcpglobal.com/detailsupplydepot/dsd8.aspx

The Makita-
http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?ID=589

I've also used Snap On's Blue Point polisher. It was nice, but only used for a month before it was stolen.

What I look for in a buffer is- variable speed control through a dial, variable speed control through trigger, ZERO bogging down with a heavy load, the ability to start SLOW so compound does not fly everywhere. Personally, I prefer the buffer to have some weight to it, so it does the buffing for me (***** when buffing overhead.)
If either of the original 2 buffers mentioned work for you, cool. Just saying I've never heard of them, nor seen them used anywhere.

Final finish on door-

 

[canuckian]

^^^^^for a pro, yes, the Dewalt and Makita are probably the way to go but they are rotary polishers and take some time to master. They can burn through clearcoat and paint in the blink of an eye in inexperienced hands. The Flex 3401 and the PC 7424XP are Dual Action polishers. They can be and are used in professional settings but are much more forgiving to novice users. The PC is a standard dual action polisher that will stall if too much pressure is applied. The Flex is a forced dual action polisher meaning that it will continue to rotate under load. This is the part that makes it a little less forgiving than the PC as given enough pressure, time, abrasive pad and compound and it'll burn through paint as well.

the ones you speak of are just different animals than the ones the OP asked about

 

[MrMark]

These tools, the subject matter of this thread, are only used by perfectionists, those who work on their own cars to achieve the ultimate finish. They use things like Blackfire, Pinacle Sovereign and Menzerna polishes. The rotary tools, I call them swirl machines, are in a different category. While a very few can do really nice work with the rotaries, those few are few and far between and all rely on fillers to fill in and cover up the last bit of swirl. It's the nature of a rotary polisher - it's what they do.

The tools being discussed in this thread could never be used by the guy doing it for a living because they take too long, at least the PC does. But, it is the only way I know of to achieve as close to a flawless finish as is achievable.

I'm surprised that the poster posting about the PC and Flex didn't know about the Makita rotary and I'm equally surprised that the person posting about the rotary didn't know about the flex and the PC DA. You would think people in the business would know about something as basic as that.

You do see some of the high dollar detailers using the PC or flex, but most just use the rotary to do a quick once over. Looks great until after the first or second wash job when all the filler washes out and the customer goes, "holy **** where did all that swirl come from." Most cars are leased and no one gives a **** anyway.

 

[fr0mastaj]

I knew about the Dewalt and Makita rotary's... i just didnt mention them because I know that I am too much of a novice to start off the bat with those rotary animals (always read about easy to burning clearcoat/paint...) And as a matter of fact, I DO use Menzerna polishes

Sadly this thread hasnt helped me with my decision all that much, still seems to be a 50/50 response! :

 

[ChrisStarks]

These tools, the subject matter of this thread, are only used by perfectionists, those who work on their own cars to achieve the ultimate finish. They use things like Blackfire, Pinacle Sovereign and Menzerna polishes. The rotary tools, I call them swirl machines, are in a different category. While a very few can do really nice work with the rotaries, those few are few and far between and all rely on fillers to fill in and cover up the last bit of swirl. It's the nature of a rotary polisher - it's what they do.

The tools being discussed in this thread could never be used by the guy doing it for a living because they take too long, at least the PC does. But, it is the only way I know of to achieve as close to a flawless finish as is achievable.

I'm surprised that the poster posting about the PC and Flex didn't know about the Makita rotary and I'm equally surprised that the person posting about the rotary didn't know about the flex and the PC DA. You would think people in the business would know about something as basic as that.

You do see some of the high dollar detailers using the PC or flex, but most just use the rotary to do a quick once over. Looks great until after the first or second wash job when all the filler washes out and the customer goes, "holy **** where did all that swirl come from." Most cars are leased and no one gives a **** anyway.

A rotary buffer does not leave swirl marks - improper technique, wrong compound, dry buffing wheel, and contaminants do. My final finishes do not leave swirl marks. When a car has been sitting at the shop for a few weeks or months, and there is dust built up, I call my local detailer. He uses a Dewalt buffer as well - even for "quick once overs". Cleaning the car before buffing, having clean wheels, and using the proper compunds is the way to eliminate swirl marks.

 

[MrMark]

I knew about the Dewalt and Makita rotary's... i just didnt mention them because I know that I am too much of a novice to start off the bat with those rotary animals (always read about easy to burning clearcoat/paint...) And as a matter of fact, I DO use Menzerna polishes

Sadly this thread hasnt helped me with my decision all that much, still seems to be a 50/50 response! :

I wasn't referring to you at all! Just get the Flex if you don't already have the PC. Buy once, be happy.

It's not so much about burning paint, although they do that in a heartbeat at the edges, it's about the swirl. Anyone saying they don't do swirl either isn't being honest, doesn't know that the materials they use are temporary fillers, or hasn't looked at the paint under artificial light. Everything looks good in direct sunlight. Swirl doesn't show up there. Bring it under the lights and the gas station to see some swirl.

 

[jjjrmx5]

I don't do production work - I do restoration work... one car at a time. I've found that the tools used for production work are completely different from those used for restoration work. When I buff out a car, I'm going for perfection (or as close as I can get with the customers budget.) When I looked for my first buffer, I looked around at the local shops, as well as shops that post pictures of their work online. Most used Dewalt or Makita. I had good luck in the past with Dewalt corded drills, so I went with them. Not trying to ruffle any feathers. Every shop I've been to that specializes in restoration work has used either a Makita or Dewalt buffer. To tell the truth, I've never heard of either of the buffers mentioned earlier in this thread.

Very helpful and thanks.

No different than finding an English Wheel in a body shop. Those that need them know what they are for, how to use them and own them.


Those are possibly overkill for the avg. user, but necessary for the high end professional.
I applaud your purchase and will look into one.

I personally get quite uneasy when the novice gets heavy with the Porter Cable units as they are rugged but can mess up a paint finish quickly if not handled correctly. Heavy duty units make the errors even more likely.

Best of luck.

 

[mikebramel]

The PC isnt powerful enough to do correction work unless you want to turn the project into an all day ordeal. The flex is idiot proof and takes no learning curve. And its made in Germany. The new PC I had a couple years ago was made in China

 

[lowdown1996]

While I don't have any hands-on experience with the Flex 3401 yet, that would be my vote. Just picked mine up last week for 15% off @ Autogeek which is the lowest I've seen it in quite some time. I've used a PC for the past couple years, and it was reliable and would produce a good finish.

I was looking for something with more power and ability. I would love to have a rotary, but I don't trust my ability with any vehicle I own and can't find anyone dumb enough to let me experiment on theirs

On a side note, I was checking out my new Flex and it seems to vibrate a hell of a lot less than my PC. That stupid thing would put my arms to sleep in no time. Anyone else have a problem with extreme vibrations from their PC?

 

[fr0mastaj]

What?? I missed a 15% off deal for the Flex?? Now I feel like a fool if I pay the online retail price... how much did you get it for/which set?

 

[Guzzi]

If you decide on the PC, check out the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital. Same price as the PC, and it seems to get more positive feedback. I don't have any experience with the PC but am very happy with my Griot's.

 

[dwm]

Call me crazy, I prefer my Dynabrades for detailing work on my own vehicles. Less tiring to use due to being lighter and transmitting less vibration to my body than my Porter-Cable did. Can be rebuilt pretty easily, but I've not had one die on me. I've got one of the wet ones (has water feed) on my wish list for when I'm using Menzerna Power Gloss.

The downside is that they gobble air, but my compressor doesn't have too much trouble keeping up.

 

[lowdown1996]

What?? I missed a 15% off deal for the Flex?? Now I feel like a fool if I pay the online retail price... how much did you get it for/which set?

And FREE SHIPPING! I ended up getting the FLEX XC3401 VRG Dual Action 6.5 inch Pad Kit, reg. 389.95(Flex, 6 pads, 2 cobra micro, 4 cobra micro bonnets, and a bottle of XMT pad cleaner and a pad conditioner), some tire shine, and a couple 2 packs of Sonus microfibers for something like 355. I wasn't looking to spend the money, but when there is a deal like that it's hard to pass up. Rare that you see them on sale.

 

[Carl B]

I've had/used both the PC's and FLEX. If you can afford it - buy the FLEX to start with. If you don't you'll always wish you had.

I second the comments:
"Less vibration"
"Less Tiring to use"
"More Power"
"Quality Build"

and add:
Quality will remain long after you forget the price. A hundred bucks is a tank of gas today, so that shouldn't prevent you from buying the FLEX to begin with.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[Danglerb]

I've got an old Cyclo dual head, and it seems the most idiot proof and it still is a preferred tool for really hard paints.

Around here you see PC for sale used all the time because the pro detailers wear them out in a about 3 years, so they sell them a couple months before that.

Detailing your own car "right" isn't cheap, $300 to $500 I think is typical for all the goops, buffers, pads, towels, etc. you need to do a good job. OTOH with some practice and good tools, almost any level of perfection is possible with patience.

 

[Monte]

Reading in different car polishing forums in germany, UK and the USA i never found someone who sad something bad about the Flex tools, only the price, but if you imagine how much money you save when you can polish your own car instead to pay someone to do it and if you use good products like Menzerna, Lake Country and Flex and learn how to polish like a pro so you can polish your own cars (and others maybe....) like a pro the next 30 years or so the price difference between the PC and Flex of $160.- which is a one time investment (you invest the money because the tool returns/saves you money if you don´t have to hire someone or if you can polish other cars too....) so it comes down to about 5 bucks a year more for the Flex over a 30 year period... that´s ok i think.....

 

[Monte]

 

[fr0mastaj]

Thanks for all the suggestions fellas. I think you may have swayed me towards the Flex now . I've only had experience with a DA - so I definitely want to stick with that for now...

But now that lowdown mentioned that he got the set for 15% off (only a few days ago!!), I feel I must wait for some kind of sale to come along! I'd feel like a sucker otherwise

 

[Monte]

or how about something completely different :

 

[gsport]

if you're happy with what you've been using, why change??

 

[mikebramel]

If your 1920 Ford gets you to the grocery store why buy a new one??

 

[Toolhorder]

I have a Dewalt and it's what the detailers use in my area. It's variable and works well. If you are a novice only one thing will get you better at it, experience. Personally I wouldn't buy buffer just because it's less forgiving. Find an old car and start there or buff old tool boxes out. I've done both and my skills are getting better every time. I'm about out of pads though. I started with a light polish and some straight wax from my supplier first and a polish (blue pad) and wool pad. I use a clay bar and body shine before I buff too to remove anything on the paint. Cars, toolboxes come alive after I'm done. Good tool for the money.

 

[Danglerb]

Professionals often have reasons for selecting a tool that do not apply to amateurs in any way.

Visit one of the detailing forums and get a taste of what works for a home user.

http://meguiarsonline.com/

 

[pipsters]

The PC isnt powerful enough to do correction work unless you want to turn the project into an all day ordeal. The flex is idiot proof and takes no learning curve. And its made in Germany. The new PC I had a couple years ago was made in China

The 7424xp is made in Mexico.

 

[fr0mastaj]

Bumping this for another question for you folks... Which color pads should I get? 3 will come with the kit and i will get another pack of 6 - total of 9.

http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-ccs-6pack.html

I was thinking of 2 orange, 2 coarse green, 2 red... not sure which inbetween ones I should also get? They all seem so similar from white to red...

Thanks!

 

[dwm]

Bumping this for another question for you folks... Which color pads should I get? 3 will come with the kit and i will get another pack of 6 - total of 9.

http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-ccs-6pack.html

I was thinking of 2 orange, 2 coarse green, 2 red... not sure which inbetween ones I should also get? They all seem so similar from white to red...

Thanks!

That's a good start. I tend to have more reds because my waxes are more work to clean out of the pad then any of my polishes or compounds. You might want to add a yellow for when you need it.