Buidling in stages - weather issues

[mark2457]

Hi All

I'm just outside Chicago.

Due to delays with city getting my permit and a 3 week delay from concrete guy, I'm about 2 months late starting my build. The slab was poured today (22'x24'). I'm using 2x4 24" oc framing. with 9.5 foot walls. The entire skin will be sheathed with 1/2" CDX plywood, then Tyvek then LP smartpanel (alternative to siding)

I'm using some buddies to do framing so have to do it at weekends. i'm trying to figure out how to stage it, so I avoid damage from weather.

My original plan (when I thought I'd be doing it in September) was:

• Weekend 1 (Now Nov 6th) frame all walls - sheath if I have time. If it rains in next two weeks: sheathing will get wet.
• Have trussed delivered following week
• Weekend 2 - install roof trusses (and hopefully plywood sheathing)
• Rough framing inspection (can't put on house wrap or roofing felt until after rough framing inspection. Delivery of shingles). Delivery and install of door.
• Weekend 3 Tyvek and at least roofing felt (hopefully shingles too) - at this point I'm reasonable protected from rain.
• Delivery of LP SmartPanel
• Weekend 4 - Installation of LP smart panel
• Following weekends: gutters, trim, interior electrical, etc.

My concern is it will be around Nov 20th before it's relatively weather proof.

Is this a crazy plan?

Any suggestions on alternatives?

How can I protect it somewhat from weather before Tyvek goes on?

Regards

mark

 

[kd3pc]

4 guys should be able to frame and sheath (we do both at the same time) and stand up the walls in a day, we do the studs, then the sheathing (ext surface up) and then tyvek - laying on the floor and then tilt them/stand them up. Do the next one and so on. If you are concerned about standing the 9' height, just do the sides in two pieces.

Not a crazy plan at all. Shingles may take you a bit more time than the weekend, but should be a good dent in the install.

no real need to protect before tyvek,

 

[Stuart in MN]

The key was getting the slab done before the ground freezes. Everything else can be done in any weather, it's only up to your tolerance for working in the cold or snow. As long as the bare structure isn't sitting unprotected for months and months, a little moisture won't hurt it.

 

[oldmxracer]

If You have a bit of decent help, You should be fine ! I have some buddies that would offer help, but I know Them and They would just slow Me down and get in the way.

 

[readhead]

Should be one day with three guys to frame, sheet, roll the trusses and sheet the roof. Maybe a little longer if you help. Have all the material there. What are they going to do when the walls are done by ten o'clock?

 

[jim whitney]

No problem with the rain as long as you get it covered before too long I had two inches of water on my second floor before the singles were on ,( had to drill holes in the floor to drain it!) everything will dry out once you get the roof on and the walls weather tight.

 

[TommyN]

I started my build in Kenosha WI mid Oct 2011. I was working alone most days. I did the walls myself in one day. I do have a bobcat I used to stand the walls. I had one friend over the day I set the trusses again using the bob cat to lift. I had a medical issue come up and had to limit my time on the garage. I didn't roof the building until the weekend after thanksgiving. I had a friend who had roofed before. We started at 8 am, took a 1/2 hour lunch break and were done at 4 pm. I again used the bobcat to bring the roofing material up and was the grunt guy all day. worked great. I subed out the overhead door, I have a neighbor in the business and with the cash discount could not have done it cheaper. This was a 24X32 building. I used a small heater in the garage during the first 2 weeks of December to do the vinyl siding. I tested this and got lucky with a few 50 deg days. I made room in my basement to bring material and do cuts but never needed to. It wasn't the ideal time but it was finished with no issues. What suburb are you in?

 

[mark2457]

4 guys should be able to frame and sheath (we do both at the same time) and stand up the walls in a day, we do the studs, then the sheathing (ext surface up) and then tyvek - laying on the floor and then tilt them/stand them up. Do the next one and so on. If you are concerned about standing the 9' height, just do the sides in two pieces.

Not a crazy plan at all. Shingles may take you a bit more time than the weekend, but should be a good dent in the install.

no real need to protect before tyvek,

thanks

Inspector said he needs to see nailing patterns before I can put tyvek on though. how do you get around that?.

 

[mark2457]

If You have a bit of decent help, You should be fine ! I have some buddies that would offer help, but I know Them and They would just slow Me down and get in the way.

That's my problem I've got one/maybe two that would be useful and others would just be in way

 

[mark2457]

Should be one day with three guys to frame, sheet, roll the trusses and sheet the roof. Maybe a little longer if you help. Have all the material there. What are they going to do when the walls are done by ten o'clock?

Drink beer?

None of us have ever actually done this before (we've all some framing but not a complete building, so i'm just not sure how long each step will take. Would be great if we could get all that done in a day

 

[mark2457]

I started my build in Kenosha WI mid Oct 2011. I was working alone most days. I did the walls myself in one day. I do have a bobcat I used to stand the walls. I had one friend over the day I set the trusses again using the bob cat to lift. I had a medical issue come up and had to limit my time on the garage. I didn't roof the building until the weekend after thanksgiving. I had a friend who had roofed before. We started at 8 am, took a 1/2 hour lunch break and were done at 4 pm. I again used the bobcat to bring the roofing material up and was the grunt guy all day. worked great. I subed out the overhead door, I have a neighbor in the business and with the cash discount could not have done it cheaper. This was a 24X32 building. I used a small heater in the garage during the first 2 weeks of December to do the vinyl siding. I tested this and got lucky with a few 50 deg days. I made room in my basement to bring material and do cuts but never needed to. It wasn't the ideal time but it was finished with no issues. What suburb are you in?

Thanks for reply. Sounds promising. i'm in Skokie, IL.

Sounds impressive (to me) to get all those walls done in one day on your own.

i will be subbing out door too. My concern with getting every thing delivered at once is leaving space to work. slab is 24' wide and lot in only 33, so everything needs to be offloaded onto slab (or 5 foot apron).

 

[mark2457]

No problem with the rain as long as you get it covered before too long I had two inches of water on my second floor before the singles were on ,( had to drill holes in the floor to drain it!) everything will dry out once you get the roof on and the walls weather tight.

Encouraging

 

[T_R]

A month in the weather will be ok.

If your sheets of plywood are in the weather and not nailed to a wall, keep them on a flat surface with spacers underneath and covered with a tarp. If you don't they will warp.

I just built a 24x24 alone. Wall framing and sheathing took about 2 whole days, roof trusses took 1 day, roof sheathing took 2 days. Shingles took 2 days. Trim 2 days, doors and opener 2 days. Paint 2 days. With bad weather and waiting for deliveries I'm at 3 months now and it's just about done, I have to paint the trim yet.

My sheathed walls with T1-11 sat in the weather for several weeks waiting for roof trusses and were still square within 1/2". Trusses usually need to be ordered a few weeks in advance, keep that in mind.

 

[rsnip988]

thanks

Inspector said he needs to see nailing patterns before I can put tyvek on though. how do you get around that?.

I guess every area is different.

I haven't seen my inspector since he checked my footing in dec 2014... Before he left he said I didn't need to call him back before the electrical had been checked and I was ready for the final inspection. I called the office to verify with a different inspector (his boss) and they said go ahead and do everything except the insulation and drywall before calling them back out!!! I'm a little paranoid as I am a DIY homeowner doing this project alone, The electrical should be done sometime in the next 2 weeks, so we'll see what that inspector says when he comes out...

A month in the weather will be ok.

If your sheets of plywood are in the weather and not nailed to a wall, keep them on a flat surface with spacers underneath and covered with a tarp. If you don't they will warp.

I just built a 24x24 alone. Wall framing and sheathing took about 2 whole days, roof trusses took 1 day, roof sheathing took 2 days. Shingles took 2 days. Trim 2 days, doors and opener 2 days. Paint 2 days. With bad weather and waiting for deliveries I'm at 3 months now and it's just about done, I have to paint the trim yet.

My sheathed walls with T1-11 sat in the weather for several weeks waiting for roof trusses and were still square within 1/2". Trusses usually need to be ordered a few weeks in advance, keep that in mind.

^^ Mine were exposed for quite a bit longer than that after mounting on the wall before Tyvek went up, but didn't notice any problems at all...

My Local code required 16" OC for 2x4 stud spacing, as I could only go 24"OC with 2x6... Hopefully you have already had this approved by your permitting/inspecting authority?

Good luck with your project!

 

[MushCreek]

My house took several months to fully dry in, working alone. It didn't seem to hurt anything.

 

[roscoe2000]

Your plan is doable provided that your helpers and the weather work within your schedule. Sadly this this rarely happens but sometime it does. I would look at a fall back plan since any hiccup would push you into the Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years holidays, which is a difficult period for getting anything done. It it was me I would step back and regrouped, and shift the remaining work for the spring of 2016. Since once the walls are framed, you are committed to getting the structured stable for wind and snow loads.

 

[gtae07]

^^ Mine were exposed for quite a bit longer than that after mounting on the wall before Tyvek went up, but didn't notice any problems at all...

My Local code required 16" OC for 2x4 stud spacing, as I could only go 24"OC with 2x6... Hopefully you have already had this approved by your permitting/inspecting authority?

Yeah, 24" 2x4s sounds a little underdone for anything but a small shed. I used 2x6s.

My framing took two months of weekends, but I only had a little help putting in rafters and a bit of the roof sheathing. I'm sure things will go faster if the OP has friends helping out, but in my experience the majority of people who say they're going to help mysteriously have something else they need to be doing when the time comes to start building. Maybe OP's friends are more reliable

I got about eight hours of unpaid help from friends (for setting most of the rafters and the first row of roof sheathing). Shingles, siding, drywall, and concrete finishing I hired out.

 

[Falcon67]

I would use OSB on the roof instead of ply - OSB has a waxy coating that will allow it to be in the weather without damage for a while. Or a year. Also, unless you felt and shingle right away, use synthetic underlayment because the first good wind will shred your felt.

FWIW, I can frame and set 8' x 16' of 24" OC stud wall including any windows or door opening in an hour or less by myself. It's not that big a deal. I did my entire 24x40 perimeter in about 3 half days and thats because it was hotter than hell by 10AM.

 

[sands35]

The housewrap can shred in a good wind. Use the plastic button nails and possibly put up cheep furring wood to hold down the corners and the seams in the house wrap.

Apparently building codes allow for 2x4 on 24"oc when single story. Plan the spacing carefully so the joists mount over the studs.

 

[Thumper68]

You and a helper or two should be able to frame that in a day including sheething.

The trick is to know what you are doing and what order you need to do it in.

Make a plan in advance.

For my shop all the studs had to be cut so I did that the night before and then 3 of us were able to frame it out in a day.

Make sure that when your materials are delivered that they are not in the way of framing the walls.

For mine I had everything dropped in the apron area, then while I laid out the walls my friend and father did the nailing, then we stood the walls as a team.

Having 2 nail guns on hand sped things up as well, one loaded with framing nails and one for the sheething.

 

[mark2457]

A month in the weather will be ok.

If your sheets of plywood are in the weather and not nailed to a wall, keep them on a flat surface with spacers underneath and covered with a tarp. If you don't they will warp.

I just built a 24x24 alone. Wall framing and sheathing took about 2 whole days, roof trusses took 1 day, roof sheathing took 2 days. Shingles took 2 days. Trim 2 days, doors and opener 2 days. Paint 2 days. With bad weather and waiting for deliveries I'm at 3 months now and it's just about done, I have to paint the trim yet.

My sheathed walls with T1-11 sat in the weather for several weeks waiting for roof trusses and were still square within 1/2". Trusses usually need to be ordered a few weeks in advance, keep that in mind.

Thanks. Will check lead time, but menards say the 24' ones I need are stock items

 

[mark2457]

I guess every area is different.

I haven't seen my inspector since he checked my footing in dec 2014... Before he left he said I didn't need to call him back before the electrical had been checked and I was ready for the final inspection. I called the office to verify with a different inspector (his boss) and they said go ahead and do everything except the insulation and drywall before calling them back out!!! I'm a little paranoid as I am a DIY homeowner doing this project alone, The electrical should be done sometime in the next 2 weeks, so we'll see what that inspector says when he comes out...



^^ Mine were exposed for quite a bit longer than that after mounting on the wall before Tyvek went up, but didn't notice any problems at all...

My Local code required 16" OC for 2x4 stud spacing, as I could only go 24"OC with 2x6... Hopefully you have already had this approved by your permitting/inspecting authority?

Good luck with your project!

Interesting. my plans have been approved by the village. If you look at IRC codes here (scroll down to "TABLE R602.3(5) SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDSa" ) it says 2x4 is fine for single story with attic.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_6_sec002.htm

Is your garage more than one story or are you in a hurricane/tornado/earthquake zone?

 

[gtae07]

Interesting. my plans have been approved by the village. If you look at IRC codes here (scroll down to "TABLE R602.3(5) SIZE, HEIGHT AND SPACING OF WOOD STUDSa" ) it says 2x4 is fine for single story with attic.

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_6_sec002.htm

Is your garage more than one story or are you in a hurricane/tornado/earthquake zone?

In my case, I'm in a hurricane zone. So hurricane straps and clips everywhere, lots of anchor bolts, corner holddowns, reduced rafter span, and so on. And I went with balloon-framed gable walls (see build thread in sig) because otherwise I'd have to put a shear diaphragm in the ceiling. It also indirectly limited the sizes of my rollup doors.

 

[mark2457]

In my case, I'm in a hurricane zone. So hurricane straps and clips everywhere, lots of anchor bolts, corner holddowns, reduced rafter span, and so on. And I went with balloon-framed gable walls (see build thread in sig) because otherwise I'd have to put a shear diaphragm in the ceiling. It also indirectly limited the sizes of my rollup doors.

That explains it then. I was gonna do scissor trusses and they usually require balloon framed gable end walls.

 

[mark2457]

You and a helper or two should be able to frame that in a day including sheething.

The trick is to know what you are doing and what order you need to do it in.

Make a plan in advance.

For my shop all the studs had to be cut so I did that the night before and then 3 of us were able to frame it out in a day.

Make sure that when your materials are delivered that they are not in the way of framing the walls.

For mine I had everything dropped in the apron area, then while I laid out the walls my friend and father did the nailing, then we stood the walls as a team.

Having 2 nail guns on hand sped things up as well, one loaded with framing nails and one for the sheething.

Unfortunately my apron is only 5 foot x 16 foot, but I could get the sheathing on that.

I was planning to take the Friday off (or Thurs and Friday) and then I could cut all the studs and mark out the top and bottom plates. I reckon I could do that and probably build a few walls framed in day

I was planning on sheathing before standing up walls, as i could probably do a lot of that on my own (as it's more sliding stuff rather that lifting and aligning a 40-lb sheet vertically)

My big problem is that I've got nowhere to land the trusses until I get the walls up (without occupying the entire slab). Even with the walls up, I think they've got to be dropped in the alley and then we would have to move them by hand into garage diagonally so they are not blocking the alley. I know I can get them delivered on top of the walls, put I'm concerned about being the framed walls being able to support them as i only have 3 foot on one side before neighbors fence, so bracing for that side is going to be difficult.

Because of all this, I think I have to frame then truss on separate weekends

 

[mark2457]

In my case, I'm in a hurricane zone. So hurricane straps and clips everywhere, lots of anchor bolts, corner holddowns, reduced rafter span, and so on. And I went with balloon-framed gable walls (see build thread in sig) because otherwise I'd have to put a shear diaphragm in the ceiling. It also indirectly limited the sizes of my rollup doors.

Was looking at your thread. looks good. had a question about the hurricane ties. I have to use them on the front and back wall. In this thread I see yours:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4831896&postcount=23

I was trying to figure out if they go under or over the sheathing. if under, doesn't that stop you being able to nail the last foot of the sheathing? If figure if they went over you could secure the strap and sheathing with the same nails.

 

[matt_i]

I think this is mostly covered above, but, I'd not worry about the framing lumber. Frame and truss it up working as you can without rushing and cutting corners or making mistakes. Buying a temporary yard light, either LED or fluorescent and mounting on a 4x4 post, that you power off a heavy extension cord gives you some light at night so you can open up the work window as the days get shorter.

Then gather/plan/look for windows in the weather and your schedule to get the plywood up and nailed off so you can call for an inspection. One thing I learned is this is a really busy time of year for inspectors due to everyone trying to get finished before winter sets in. So you may have several days of waiting. If you understand the backlog, you may be able to pre-schedule the inspection for a specific day in the future, and so as you near completion, try to balance your number of "days of work left" with the inspection schedule.

Once you get approved, then focus on housewrap, ice/water shield, and tar paper. As my roofer friend says, you can ice/water shield the entire roof if you want...that buys you a fair amount of time to complete the siding and shingles. I have passed buildings that appeared to live 2 full years under housewrap before the siding finally went on. Not saying its ideal but if pushed it could make it.

 

[mark2457]

I think this is mostly covered above, but, I'd not worry about the framing lumber. Frame and truss it up working as you can without rushing and cutting corners or making mistakes. Buying a temporary yard light, either LED or fluorescent and mounting on a 4x4 post, that you power off a heavy extension cord gives you some light at night so you can open up the work window as the days get shorter.

Then gather/plan/look for windows in the weather and your schedule to get the plywood up and nailed off so you can call for an inspection. One thing I learned is this is a really busy time of year for inspectors due to everyone trying to get finished before winter sets in. So you may have several days of waiting. If you understand the backlog, you may be able to pre-schedule the inspection for a specific day in the future, and so as you near completion, try to balance your number of "days of work left" with the inspection schedule.

Once you get approved, then focus on housewrap, ice/water shield, and tar paper. As my roofer friend says, you can ice/water shield the entire roof if you want...that buys you a fair amount of time to complete the siding and shingles. I have passed buildings that appeared to live 2 full years under housewrap before the siding finally went on. Not saying its ideal but if pushed it could make it.

Thanks Matt

Good tip on the ice shield. May do that for peace of mind if I can;t guarantee getting the shingles up in a reasonable time. I also found heavy duty 30' x 50' tarps with grommet holes that I could possible use on the roof for protection

 

[RoyBell]

The biggest key is having everything ready and lined up. I put a small addition on my house (9x25), but required demo work. I had hired some carpenters I knew on the side and they knocked it out fast. I had the material dropped the day before and the windows I had sitting in the garage. Dumpster was on site and all I needed was carpenters.

Saturday they demoed the side of the house that it attached to and the floor (second floor addition) They got all the walls up. Sunday they got the roof built and plywooded up. I stick built vs truss since it was a narrow area. I had the roofers lined up for the Monday and By the time I got home from work Monday I had an enclosed. The following weekend they got the interior walls up.

The house wrap was fine for a couple weeks until they got the siding up.

Make sure you check and double check everything and have all your materials on site and ready to roll.

 

[rsnip988]

Was looking at your thread. looks good. had a question about the hurricane ties. I have to use them on the front and back wall. In this thread I see yours:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4831896&postcount=23

I was trying to figure out if they go under or over the sheathing. if under, doesn't that stop you being able to nail the last foot of the sheathing? If figure if they went over you could secure the strap and sheathing with the same nails.

I'm in the middle of NC, so yes kinda prone to hurricane winds and rain... The only hurricane clips I had to put on were the diamond shaped ones when the trusses were mounted... (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-...lvanized-18-Gauge-Hurricane-Tie-H1Z/100374935)
like these and straight ones on the gable end...

I went with 2/3 scissor trusses and 1/3 attic trusses (rated for 50lb psf) for storage/man cave on one end and scissor for a lift to be installed later!

 

[gtae07]

Was looking at your thread. looks good. had a question about the hurricane ties. I have to use them on the front and back wall. In this thread I see yours:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4831896&postcount=23

I was trying to figure out if they go under or over the sheathing. if under, doesn't that stop you being able to nail the last foot of the sheathing? If figure if they went over you could secure the strap and sheathing with the same nails.

The strap is sized for the 2x6s, so it goes under the sheathing. You just work around it--you're only missing two or three nails at that point.

 

[mark2457]

The strap is sized for the 2x6s, so it goes under the sheathing. You just work around it--you're only missing two or three nails at that point.

Thanks

 

[mark2457]

The strap is sized for the 2x6s, so it goes under the sheathing. You just work around it--you're only missing two or three nails at that point.

And you only put those on gable ends right?

 

[ExxWhy]

Thanks Matt

Good tip on the ice shield. May do that for peace of mind if I can;t guarantee getting the shingles up in a reasonable time. I also found heavy duty 30' x 50' tarps with grommet holes that I could possible use on the roof for protection

I used something called Grace Tri Flex synthetic underlayment on my roof. It was on 5-6 weeks without shingles. Survived a few gusty T-storms, 50-60 MPH winds. Barely a few drips inside. Simple to install (nail points are marked right on the sheets), just takes a lot of cap nails. Really good product that will protect the roof for a while.

 

[mark2457]

I used something called Grace Tri Flex synthetic underlayment on my roof. It was on 5-6 weeks without shingles. Survived a few gusty T-storms, 50-60 MPH winds. Barely a few drips inside. Simple to install (nail points are marked right on the sheets), just takes a lot of cap nails. Really good product that will protect the roof for a while.

Thanks

 

[chiyota]

If, you are in skokie, I am not to far from you in the city. I built my garage 24'x25' x 14' ( flat roof) around this time of year, two years ago. Depending on who is delivering your trusses, this is what I was able to have done. I had the lumber dropped off on 3 different days. 2"x6" for framing the first delivery. OSB and plywood the second, they could now set this "inside" and when it came time for the trusses to be delivered I had them set them right on top of the garage. Looks like we are going to have some mild weather entering into November, you might have lucked out.

 

[mark2457]

If, you are in skokie, I am not to far from you in the city. I built my garage 24'x25' x 14' ( flat roof) around this time of year, two years ago. Depending on who is delivering your trusses, this is what I was able to have done. I had the lumber dropped off on 3 different days. 2"x6" for framing the first delivery. OSB and plywood the second, they could now set this "inside" and when it came time for the trusses to be delivered I had them set them right on top of the garage. Looks like we are going to have some mild weather entering into November, you might have lucked out.

I've got studs and sheathing for walls being delivered on thursday. Will lay out sill plates on Friday and start framing Saturday. Garage is 24 foot wide and walls are 9 foot, so if i get sheets dropped in center, near apron, I should have enough space to build the side and back walls