Building a Bench for a Large Tool

[machine_punk]

Hello! I am getting a large piece of manually-operated bench equipment for The Aerodrome Studio soon. I've got a few questions that I'm sure a few of you have dealt with in the past...

1. How do you design a bench to hold a VERY heavy piece of equipment (This isn't a 'structural' question...I can easily make it 'strong enough,' I am more interested in 'how do you design a bench which won't tip over). I suspect that this is a 'center of gravity' issue...as in, get the center of gravity below a certain point and the likelihood of tipping during normal use approaches 'zero.'

Here are the parameters I am working with...
- It weighs 1200 pounds (550 kg). (plus up to a potential of around 150 pounds of materials, which might be processed on this machine) (68 kg)
- The top of the bench needs to be approximately 56" by 15" (142 cm x 38 cm)
- I will build a fairly tall bench (34", or 85 cm)
- It is manually operated (like a sheet metal roller or sheet metal brake).

Is there some calculation for figuring out how wide I need to make the base, to keep from tipping over? (I know that is a little vague, and that is on purpose...I don't want someone else to pull the rug out from under my deal. If someone definitely knows the answer, I'd be willing to PM that person with more details. I am definitely looking for general answers at this time)

2. How do I get this machine into the garage? Or, more accurately, how do I get it into the garage, without spending more than I paid for the piece of equipment and shipping?

- I am having it delivered to a local freight yard, where they will lift it into the back of a rental truck or rental trailer. (even if I pay for residential delivery and lift gate service, in my experience, that just gets it to street level. I have to get it into the garage. Even if I get it into the garage on the floor, I still have to get it up on top of the bench I build.)

- The distance from the street to the garage door is minimal, approx 15 feet / 5 meters. There is, however a gradual rise to the driveway, which is painful enough when I am trying to roll the fully-loaded, 5-drawer, service cart on it, much less an object weighing a little over half a ton.


Thanks! I'm open to pretty much any idea here, other than, "well, don't buy it, then it won't be a problem."

I am looking forward to seeing how others have solved this problem...

M_P

 

[rsieracki]

I'm not sure exactly what this machine is but if it uses specialized tooling. And obviously forms or cuts some type of material why not a rollercab /toolchest? That way you get storage and mobility (unless castors are a draw back them remove them and lag bolt /anchor into floor or wall) I've seen this idea work with a small lathe.

Once again I'm not sure what this machine is or does so take my idea with a grain of salt

 

[Zeke]

Well, by your post you already know 15" wide won't do. You need to look at a beefy sawhorse design. The trusses and bracing are key to building something with angled legs.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This is a photo of the base I built for my 150 drill press. It's just regular old construction grade 2x4s but I splayed out the legs, and even though the whole assembly is top heavy it's very stable. I forget the angle, I think the legs are at maybe 10 degrees in both directions.

 

[Dustball]

As for the bench- are you able to bolt it to the floor?

As for lifting/moving the machine onto the bench- an engine hoist can easily handle that.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The way to get it in the garage is a wrecker or roll back tow truck. I have several 4000+ pound machines in my garage that is on a hill with a standard flip up garage door( 71" door height). As for what to put it on; you really have to be a bit more direct with what it is, PM me if you like, this is NOT a big deal.

Steve

 

[gorilla]

Make a scale drawing of the bench and the tool, make your best estimate of the center of gravity and scribe an arc from the centerline of the bottom of the bench to the center of gravity. The legs need to be just outside of the arc. If you anchor it to a wall or to the floor the spread can be smaller. A good engine hoist should be able to lift it. Usual practice is to build to at least 2X estimated load. Pm me if you need more.

 

[EdT]

Aw c'mon. What is it?? The details of the bench depend a lot on what it is and how it's used. If, for example, it's a lathe there is very little force when in use trying to tip the thing over. On the other hand, if it's a big combo sheet metal machine with a shear and a brake and a slip roll, there's going to be a big 3' long lever with you hanging on it to try to cut something too thick. That's a lot of torque and the bench and its mounting should be designed to accommodate it. It might be worthwhile to look at the bench you can probably get from the manufacturer just to see how they deal with whatever it is. I think most big heavy things like that, regardless of their method of employ, are recommended to be bolted to something. The floor, the wall, something to reduce the likelihood of a catastrophic tip over.

 

[machine_punk]

RSIERACKI: That is a fabulous idea...I probably won't have the money to do that right now, after buying the machine and having it shipped, but I may just consider that in the future. That is why I post questions like this, because someone is bound to come up with something I wasn't even thinking about.

ZEKE: Thanks! I was heading that way in my mind, and still might.

STUART IN MN: Thanks for posting a pic! Similar to Zeke's idea and I just might go that route.

DUSTBALL: No, I won't want to bolt the bench to the floor. I think it is possible to design a bench that, combined with the weight of the machine, will be VERY difficult to tip over...just curious what others have done. The machine WILL, however, be bolted to the bench, which will, essentially, make it a floor-mounted machine.

Thanks for the confirmation on the engine hoist...I had that in the back of my mind (I've seen people lift the full-size tool boxes with them, but I don't have any personal experience with them).

STEVE IN SOCAL: That is brilliant! Why didn't I think of that?!?! Hire someone who is relatively inexpensive and has heavy lifting equipment to come out and assist. This might just be the winning idea!

EDT: Sorry EdT, no more details forthcoming at this time, it is far too good of a deal to give any hints on this big of a forum. However, your post has some valuable nuggets in it (as your posts always do...I appreciate your ideas about my main The Aerodrome Studio thread. I have gone back to the manufacturer's site to see how they build a base for similar machines and actually they seem to be even simpler than I was planning on.

EVERYONE: Thanks for taking the time to look and post. I'll keep you updated with pictures as things progress (hopefully within the next couple of weeks).

M_P

 

[RVDan]

yes on the engine hoist, as long it will go the height you need, 1200 lbs is not a significant load on a good engine hoist, I use mine regularly to lift half of my Jeep up off the ground

 

[bad_idea]

Another vote for engine hoist. I would build a stout bench and bolt it to the floor. I do not like to worry about tipping heavy equipment on myself. Bolt it down and you never have to worry about that.

If bolting down is absolutely not in the cards, build the bench out of steel and weld the bench to a sheet of steel laying on the floor. That gives a larger foot print without affecting the size of the bench so much. Maybe a 3'x5'x1/2" piece of plate.

 

[Kevin54]

Just remember the lower the center of gravity the more stable it is. 15" is not very wide. A good rule of thumb is build it as deep as you are building it tall. So if you are building it to free stand at 34" tall, I'd build it at 3' deep. Besides that, one can never have too much bench space. You also want to make it stout. With 1200lbs on top you are talking the weight of two big block engines, so you don't want a bench that is nailed or screwed together. Use 4x4's for your legs, lag bolts or carriage bolts and at least 2x6's for the top framework with adequate bracing underneath the top. I'd also double up some 3/4 ply for the benchtop. Now if you have access to a welder and some tubing, then that is a different ballgame as far as bench assembly.

As far as unloading it, If you know someone that has a skidsteer (a farmer possibly) ask them for a favor for a few bucks out of your pocket. If there is any construction going on around you, ask if they have a skidsteer. At 1200 lbs. an engine hoist should be able to move it. If you have a rental company close check to see what they have. Just remember, if you don't have a lot of ceiling height in your garage or building, a towmotor will not work due to the fact the part that runs the forks will start to go up at a certain height. You might not have the headroom to get the machinery up to the height you want. Also if you know someone that has a compact tractor with a bucket, you may be able to go that route. I know that with my CUT I can raise the bucket all the way up against my ceiling in my garage without anything else interfering.

Good luck and be sure to post some pics!!!

 

[machine_punk]

Just remember the lower the center of gravity the more stable it is. 15" is not very wide. A good rule of thumb is build it as deep as you are building it tall. So if you are building it to free stand at 34" tall, I'd build it at 3' deep. Besides that, one can never have too much bench space. You also want to make it stout. With 1200lbs on top you are talking the weight of two big block engines, so you don't want a bench that is nailed or screwed together. Use 4x4's for your legs, lag bolts or carriage bolts and at least 2x6's for the top framework with adequate bracing underneath the top. I'd also double up some 3/4 ply for the benchtop. Now if you have access to a welder and some tubing, then that is a different ballgame as far as bench assembly.

As far as unloading it, If you know someone that has a skidsteer (a farmer possibly) ask them for a favor for a few bucks out of your pocket. If there is any construction going on around you, ask if they have a skidsteer. At 1200 lbs. an engine hoist should be able to move it. If you have a rental company close check to see what they have. Just remember, if you don't have a lot of ceiling height in your garage or building, a towmotor will not work due to the fact the part that runs the forks will start to go up at a certain height. You might not have the headroom to get the machinery up to the height you want. Also if you know someone that has a compact tractor with a bucket, you may be able to go that route. I know that with my CUT I can raise the bucket all the way up against my ceiling in my garage without anything else interfering.

Good luck and be sure to post some pics!!!

Thanks! That's pretty much where I was going with the bench. I plan to use double 2x6 legs and 2x6 frame top and double 3/4" ply top. I will also use plenty of 3/4" ply as gussets, anywhere framework comes together.

I think I've decided on a 72" x 28" top, with the legs going straight down. The similar machines with legs that I see on the manufacturer's site don't seem to flare too much--so I think going from 14.5" at the machine base to 28" at the floor will be enough. For now, I think I'll start with something pretty basic, then design and build something fancier later. I just need to get the bench built, since the money should be available in a few days and it will be less than a week of shipping from the manufacturer (and I'm working an unbelievable number of days during that time).

I suspect that renting a bobcat/other lift is going to be prohibitively expensive. If I can at least get a tow truck to lift it from the street to the garage floor, then I am confident I can get it on the bench with an engine hoist (which I will likely buy, with the money I saved on shipping). If the hoist doesn't give enough headroom, I'll likely build a temporary frame of 4x4's and get a chain hoist to lift the machine onto the bench.

THANKS for all the great ideas, everyone...you have really helped me put the task into perspective and given me a couple of ideas I wasn't thinking about. I really appreciate it.

I'll definitely take pictures as I go!

M_P

 

[rsanter]

you need to look at the center of gravity of the machine and the center of gravity of the base...then the combined

put as much weight in the base down low. this is done by filling the lower portions of the base tubes with sand or cement. if the machine can be subject to vibrations you can mix some oil in with the sand to help dampen some of the vibrations.

a base that is not on wheels is generally more stable than one on wheels so unless it is sufficiently wide and deep then leave the wheels off. when designing a base without wheels concider how you may lift it to put it on a cart, this can be done with good placement of crossmembers that can be lift points for a jack.

depending on the size (height, width, depth) of the base you should look at incorperating drawers in the base by using mid chests, or base cabinets

it would greatly help to knos what is it....so post it when you can

bob

 

[machine_punk]

Thanks, RSANTER, for more good advice.

Believe me, as soon as the deal is done, and the equipment is on the way, you guys will be the FIRST to know!

 

[machine_punk]

Baileigh

OK! I can finally reveal some of the details...

Here is what I am getting:
The Baileigh Brake Roller Shear- SBR-5216
A combination machine with a capacity of 16 gauge cold rolled steel at 52"

You can see it here and watch the video:
http://www.baileighindustrial.com/shears/sbr-5216.php

The 'deal' part of it is that it is a 'scratch & dent.' It received some minor damage in shipping...so the sheet metal cover for the rollers is damaged (not a big deal...I can make a new one WITH this machine). There are also some chips on the paint (also not a big deal, I plan to paint all of my equipment to match my shop colors eventually anyway--fudgescicle brown and pale yellow. I'll hit the rough spots with primer in the meantime, just to prevent rust).

So, the machine is essentially 'half price.' Woohoo! With shipping and a tow truck to move it from my truck to the garage, I'll still come in less than the original price of the machine...and likely come in near the price of the smaller machine (the 20 gauge machine).

Cool.

More info as I get it...now I need to get out in the garage and get it in shape to fit the new machine.

 

[Nuts]

I would make a metal legged bench just a bit wider than the unit, angled legs to a wider base about 32 inches wide, with a shelf up 4in or so for being able to tuck your toes under.

Lots of weighty items stored on the shelf or shelves for a lower center of gravity.

Guys that have used this type of equipment will know more, but it looks like to me you need access to both front and back of the machine when in use.

Also if you put temporary casters on the bench, they can be removed when in place.

 

[admranger]

www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm may give you some insight into what the top of your bench will need to support the load without sagging...

 

[Dustball]

Why couldn't you make a standard depth bench and simply mount the brake towards the front edge?

That's how they show it mounted in their video.

 

[Steevo]

Seems like a lot of drama for nothing.

 

[BWS]

Sorta agree Steevo....but it seems to be a big deal for him?


To OP,steel 2,2 1/2 or 3" angle......no splay on ends,cause there isn't any forces to speak of in that direction(so why make the footprint larger).But splay the welded endframes,fwd/backwds a bit.Then I'd bolt vs welding the connecting horizantal parts.IOWs,weld up a frame section for top....same for shelf....then bolt these sections in.Bolt in braces.Drill holes in endframes for bolting to flr.


IF,you wanted to "fancy it up a bit"........figure in the design stage how to best utilize sheet metal into design.By doing this you can often use smaller angle/framing.BW

 

[Mike_C]

I would contact Baileigh and ask them what they recommend for a stand.

 

[machine_punk]

I got a machine which normally sells for $2K for $1K and all I have to do is make a new roller cover (which is exactly the sort of thing this machine does) and touch up the paint. I thought that was a pretty good deal.

Considering that I just got back into metalworking about 5 months ago and this is my largest (and heaviest) tool purchase so far, I was excited (well, I still am). I suppose this pales to the sort of machines you guys deal with every day--in fact, I'm sures some of you wouldn't even let a combination machine like this in your shop--but my day job has nothing to do with machines or repairing things. After the air compressor, this machine will make the largest difference in the sort of work I can do in my garage.

Thanks for the input, everyone! I'm looking forward to getting the machine in a few days and you have been helpful in figuring out what I should do for a bench.

 

[BWS]

Hell Machine,didn't mean to ruffle ya.......Just sayin,machine bases are a breeze.Copy,ripoff...steal every idea you can.Heck,I just got a Baliegh catalog at the welding joint.....NOT for their equip.But to study & ripoff industrial design,IN THEIR STANDS.

Go on evil-bay and start searching for old Pexto's and Diacro's.Look at their stands.....then look at the new chit.Somewhere 'round the 1970's you'll see a change in design from roundy round,sculpture'd/cast to the square'ish "slick" look.


But,all the design fancy stuff still has to abide to basic engineering or structural elements.On any equip that can be hauled in a PU....meeting structural requirements IS rather "easy"....or no big deal.

Combo machines are fine....heck,we got an old one.It ain't up to the gauges of material that they're rated for......but thats pretty much the case with practically everything these days.So keep the material thickness in mind.Good luck,BW

 

[Doctor_Ink]

as for the bench- are you able to bolt it to the floor?

As for lifting/moving the machine onto the bench- an engine hoist can easily handle that.

x2 ^

 

[Wingnut65]

Congrats on the new investment in the Aerodrome. With all the sheet metal work that you do, that will come in handy.

I think Kevin covered it well on a wood workbench. Those above are on track for steel. A wider bench would be more stable and safer. As for the bending in the bench top, it looks like the shear has the loads on the two legs. So putting the legs of the bench directly below them, or close to them, there should not be any load on the actual workbench top at all. In fact, if you build the 2x6 legs to carry the legs of the shear, the workbench top can be a few inches lower for tool or material storage. Add a few more shelves a couple inches high and you would have plenty of spare material storage.

+1 on the engine hoist. I was going to suggest using mover dollys (2 @1000lbs capacity would work) and then lift in smaller increments and using blocking, sawhorses, etc to hold it. But 34" may be too high to do that safely. Go with the engine hoist.

Congrats on the score!

 

[RRmech]

I built my work bench out of 2" x 4" lumber AND heavy-gauge angle iron, all tied together with 5/16" bolts.
I built a shelf on the bottom with additional 2 x 4's that....if needed....I can add bags of sand for addition weight/stability.
The top of the work bench consists of TWO sheets of 3/4" hardwood ply.

Steve

 

[GarageEnvy]

I've looked for quite some time for a deal on a SBR5216. Congrats on the find and good call on not posting details (especially since I'm in CA too). I've seen a lot of standard angle iron construction benches for these machines. At a max of 16 gauge I don't think you're going to have too much leverage unless you're dealing with full sheets. Even then, they're going to be supported. If/when I find my deal on this machine I plan on just a caster type angle iron stand with some feet to keep it in place.

Many years ago I built a lateral file drawer that would tip if the drawer was full and extended. I ended up throwing some metal weight plates (like on a tractor) in the base for ballast. You could always do something like that if you've got issues with tipping.

 

[machine_punk]

Thanks for all the posts, guys!

I think I am going to make the new bench very similar to my old bench, which you can see on the left in these pictures (there is a little bit of water damage on the top, from the years it spent in storage)...
View media item 11627
View media item 11628
This bench only has about a 24"-wide base (front to back) and even with just 3 benchtop tools on it, I just about cannot tip it by just pushing on it. I think I am going to shoot for about a 24" base on the new bench (the mounting bolt holes are 14.5" from front to back). Most of the machine bases I have seen do not significantly widen the footprint of the machines.

While I have been trained to weld, I don't have a welder yet. In the long run, I will eventually build a sheet metal/riveted base for this machine (I already have a lot of ideas for that!). Right now, just to give it a home where it can start working for me, I plan to build a wooden bench, which can be used for other things later.

Here are my plans:
- Double 2x6 legs (bolted together outside of a 2x10" horizontal piece, which will serve as a jacking point).

- 2x10" apron all the way around the bottom of the table top, 3" in from the edge.

- 2x2" ledge, bolted to the inside, bottom edge of the apron, to support the weight of...

- 2x6" 'joists' under the...

- Double layer of 3/4" plywood for the top.

All of this will be through-bolted together (carriage bolts are sold by-the-piece here, I can buy a box of bolts cheaper). The top will be screwed down (with countersunk holes), since it will always be in compression and never be in shear.

I was going to build fixed casters into the legs on one end and figure out a removable-caster situation for the other end. That got WAY too complicated, so I decided to just go with the car-mover dollies (the V-shaped dollies meant to cradle a car's tires, for moving your project around the shop). I will build jacking points into each set of legs, so I can lift the bench with my 20-ton, air-over-hydraulic jack, and place or remove the tire dollies on each leg. I'll put smal 45-degree cuts in the legs, to keep the legs in place on the tire dollies.

So, this allows me to go ahead and get the HF 2-ton engine hoist and tire dollies. I will probably also get the load leveler (to widen the grip on the machine) and a couple of load-lifting straps.

The new bench is going to go on the right of the above pictures, where you see the two, large, yellow bins, on top of the library book cart.

I suppose, in the end, I'd be OK with bolting it to the floor, I just don't think it is going to be necessary.

Now that I am done with this huge stretch of work days, I can actually get out into the garage, clear some room, and get working on the bench. The machine should be on its way.

GARAGENVY: Sorry to cause more 'Garage Envy,' with my SBR 5216. They didn't list it on the web site under used machines, I had to call the sales person, with the intent of ordering a brand new one, to find out that they had a slightly-damaged one available.


More pictures when I have 'em...

M_P

 

[BD1]

hi, if its not too late , what about a lift cart ???

http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=lift+cart&qpvt=lift+cart&FORM=HURE#x0y0

 

[factorten]

This is a photo of the base I built for my 150 drill press. It's just regular old construction grade 2x4s but I splayed out the legs, and even though the whole assembly is top heavy it's very stable. I forget the angle, I think the legs are at maybe 10 degrees in both directions.

lol, I have the same drill press. Picked it up a few years ago for $50 at a garage sale. Pulled it apart and greased it, works like a champ.