To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Building a Deck

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
So, my idea of a fun (company-wide email inspired) vacation is to bust my body building a deck. No relaxing by the lake, sipping pints, smoking smokes, chatting to friends, arguing politics or napping at 2pm. No, I decide to sweat and hurt. I guess it needed doing... I've remembered muscles I'd forgotten I had.

The Backstory.

What we started from last year. The part of the house that's been stripped of siding used to be a kennel. The part just to the right of that was a connecting room that housed a shower for washing dogs, a couple of laundry sinks, a cabinet and lots of unused or poorly used space.

IMG_3570.jpg


Notice the lovely yellow door. The PO had painted the inside of the kennel (doors and trim anway) this gorgeous neon yellow. Ack! That got rectified in about 2 days time. Nice thing was, this was an exterior door that was mounted inside between the house and kennel - no outside time at all! The "deck" was the original entry deck/pad just spun 90deg, raised and some scraps used for railings. All of an hour went into this fine example of construction.

IMG_3603.jpg


The bulk of the reno was completed last fall/winter and we enjoyed that fine "deck" for several months. It's done its duty to God and country, time for it to go.

First order of business - rip out that pad! Don't need it, don't want to rebuild the retaining wall that's rotting away. Time for this useless lump to take a hike. Oh... but the concrete is over 10" thick and reinforced with rebar!! Backhoe can't break it, so I take the day off work, rent a saw and after a while of this and hauling off the retaining wall logs that were pulled out, my back says "I'm on vacation" and leaves me feeling nearly crippled for the next couple of weeks. Ouch!

IMG_4549.jpg


A little chip off the corner when the pad was being moved out from the house.

IMG_4550.jpg


Finito! She's gone! Just need some grass in there now!

IMG_4567.jpg


Someone enjoyed checking out the "Big digger!".

IMG_4553.jpg


Now, I hire a mason to fix things up - repair the corner, parge the bare spots, heck, run around the house and fix all the loose and cracked parging which you're at it! Nice job (can be seen in the next pics).

The Present.

Time to run a new phone line to the shop. The existing line stopped working a couple of years ago and I've not gotten around to replacing it yet. So, I order 150' of direct-burial CAT5e (might as well extend the network to the shop if I'm running a wire anyway) and get to work on digging up the shop power/phone line where it exits the house.

IMG_4907.jpg


Ah, I see why the phone line stopped working (it's not an outdoor wire):

IMG_4908.jpg


K, new cable installed through the old silly-cone and sealed with tar:

IMG_4909.jpg


Stake marks where the cable transitions from driveway to lawn:

IMG_4910.jpg


About 20':

IMG_4912.jpg

IMG_4913.jpg


Project supervisor yelling at me (he's a bit hard to see in the window... look for the eyes):

IMG_4916.jpg


I needed a 4' level to ensure that I had the correct slope from the house and that long spans were level, etc. HD has a $20 cheapie aluminum level, imported form Lord knows where, that was super cheap (crappy). Soft aluminum, really twisty and had a 1yr warranty. For $23 more, I picked up this nice level. Very rigid, made in USA and carries a lifetime warranty. Accurate to .0005". I hate crappy tools, esp those whose accuracy you require so the extra money spent was well worth it.

IMG_4920.jpg

IMG_4919.jpg


Blocks in place, carefully positioned, levelled and aligned:

IMG_4921.jpg


Beams in place. Beams are constructed from a 2x12 and a 2x10 sistered together then slipped into the notch of a deck block (the 2x10 had to be slightly shimmed to avoid falling forward).

IMG_4922.jpg


Frame was assembled on the ground then muscled into place. Whoops.. beams are too close, frame of deck rocks. Have to space them further apart. Muscle fame off beams, have smoke, drink pint, reposition blocks and bleams, muscle frame back on.

IMG_4923.jpg


Peanut gallery is overseeing the construction, offering much needed advice and soliciting vast quantities of information:

IMG_4930.jpg


Ah, project supervisor showed up again, late, to check on progress. He's not happy that the front corner of the deck feels a bit spongy so his minion (me) has a smoke and a pint and enjoys a Plato moment.

IMG_4932.jpg


It was around 3pm on Wed now. I head over to the sawmill to pick up some cedar. Well, turns out I know nothing about sawmills or how they work. Next time for cutting (at this one anyway) is next week, and he didn't have much stockpiled. Okay, head over to another fella I know. He cuts more often but won't have it ready for a day or so. Okay, lesson learned, local sawmills are not like HD - gotta plan and order in advance. S'okay, I have much grass to mow anway.

Thu, I touch base, no wood sawn today on account of being called out on township duty. Will be ready tomorrow (Fri). Friday noon-ish, I pick up the cedar. Very nice stuff! Planed on one side to 1.5" thick and it just smells awesome!

The deck structure is now in place, blocking is installed for the perimeter deck boards, cross braces are in place between the beams to prevent them from racking and a mini-beam is in place to shore up the front. She's solid as a rock now!

IMG_4958.jpg


Cross brace detail. Once these were plugged in, all movement stopped.

IMG_4959.jpg


Now... the monsoons were forecast for the weekend. I'd had enough delays this week that I needed to get the deck boards installed. So, my Dad and I were up to past 3am last night getting the decking installed. All but two boards are in place. These I shall rip down to size (soas to avoid a very noticeable thin board by the house) and screw down.

As she sat this morning:

IMG_4961.jpg

IMG_4963.jpg

IMG_4965.jpg


The deck does have a bit of slope away from the door (about 3/8" over the 8' depth) but the siding makes it look like a lot more... contractor didn't install it level.

Still need to get the last two boards in place, then construct the stairs, add the railing and enclose the bottom in some lattice. Coming together... might take some more time off this week to wrap it up.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Treeman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
550
Location
Michigan
Nice job!

I am not familiar with the concrete block "foundation" system. I assume the deck floats, and is not attached to the house? Will those blocks frost heave and/or settle much?
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Nice job!

I am not familiar with the concrete block "foundation" system. I assume the deck floats, and is not attached to the house? Will those blocks frost heave and/or settle much?

Thanks! That's right, the deck is free-floating, not attached to the house in any way. I didn't want to get into the hassle of cutting open the siding and installing a ledger and worrying about waterproofing the whole thing. This way, I don't worry about house rot. The blocks are sitting on a few inches of 3/4" crushed stone so I don't think anything is going to wash out from underneath. If I have to, I can jack up the deck and reposition a block to re-level it. Had to do that a couple of times when I was fiddling with getting it all shored up. The block in the corner would be a bit of a PITA to get at, but if needed, I'd just pull up a board or three, do the work then screw them down again. There's a larger deck in the backyard (not built by me) that's sitting on blocks and it hasn't changed position much over the years (and those blocks are just sitting on soil).
 

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
No shutoff or meter or am I missing all of that?

No, it's the regulator for the gas service entry to the house. I had to provide 6" clearance from the regulator to any structure and I will construct a box to fit over the hole to hide it. Stick a flowerpot on top.
 

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
I am doing the same thing with my deck.

I figure look at garden/yard sheds, most of the time they are sitting right on the ground and they don't seem to move around too much.

Thanks! That's right, the deck is free-floating, not attached to the house in any way. I didn't want to get into the hassle of cutting open the siding and installing a ledger and worrying about waterproofing the whole thing. This way, I don't worry about house rot. The blocks are sitting on a few inches of 3/4" crushed stone so I don't think anything is going to wash out from underneath. If I have to, I can jack up the deck and reposition a block to re-level it. Had to do that a couple of times when I was fiddling with getting it all shored up. The block in the corner would be a bit of a PITA to get at, but if needed, I'd just pull up a board or three, do the work then screw them down again. There's a larger deck in the backyard (not built by me) that's sitting on blocks and it hasn't changed position much over the years (and those blocks are just sitting on soil).
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Any reason you just didn't move it over? Not doable because of the dryer vent?

Gas code requires 36" clearance from the regulator (vent) to the dryer. It also would have been closer to the garage door (ie: more likely to whack it with something). This way actually works out nicer (though more fiddling is involved) since I can fully hide it.

I'd actually asked my new propane suppier if they could lay it on its side so I could fully hide it (and just make an access hatch to get at it). Dunno why (they never really explained why) but they wouldn't do that.
 
Last edited:

Jack Olsen

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
6,678
Location
Los Angeles
The deck itself looks plenty sturdy. I think in your shoes I would have bitten the bullet and drilled out four holes and run concrete down below the frost line. But I guess with a floating deck, that's always an option (so long as you have the manpower to lift it away) if you have trouble with the soil shifting or heaving.
 

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
Gotcha!

Now that I look at your pics, that regulator wouldn't even be allowed on that wall here. Has to be 36" from any door or window.

Gas code requires 36" clearance from the regulator (vent) to the dryer. It also would have been closer to the garage door (ie: more likely to whack it with something). This way actually works out nicer (though more fiddling is involved) since I can fully hide it.

I'd actually asked my new propane supplier if they could lay it on its side so I could fully hide it (and just make an access hatch to get at it). Dunno why (they never really explained why) but they wouldn't do that.
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
The deck itself looks plenty sturdy. I think in your shoes I would have bitten the bullet and drilled out four holes and run concrete down below the frost line. But I guess with a floating deck, that's always an option (so long as you have the manpower to lift it away) if you have trouble with the soil shifting or heaving.

Originally, I was going to do that, but with the gas and shop power being underground (I know where they are at the house, but a few feet out, who knows), I didn't want to risk hitting either. I also didn't want to hand dig the holes (4' to the frost line). As the deck is only 10x8, the blocks seemed the most reasonable option.

Gotcha!

Now that I look at your pics, that regulator wouldn't even be allowed on that wall here. Has to be 36" from any door or window.

When the GC put the dryer vent in last year, he didn't put it in 36" from the regulator vent. My supplier wasn't going to pass the installation until the gas tech I hired to install the wall heater and dryer told me that, according to the code book, the vent can be extended to give the 36" clearance. He explained that to the supplier's tech who then installed an extension and passed everything. :)

The only other gripes from the supplier were the doorbell and wall plug - they have to be 10' from the regulator as they are an "ignition source" (so they disconnected them to give me the pass). I think the code needs to be clarified here since they obviously have NG in mind. NG, being lighter than air, would require this clearance, however, propane, heavier than air, will sink and thus should not require such a vast clearance to plugs, etc that are well above the vent. The code is always changing so maybe this will be updated one day.
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Much progress. The intervening weekend was rainy so I ended up taking a couple more days off this past week and got it mostly complete (certainly, it's functional).

After reading a bunch on railing posts, I decided to notch them anyway (despite various claims that the notches weaken the post - I've seen many decks built with notched posts and they seem to perform just fine) but I also decided to reinforce the structure using plates [to reinforce the 45 deg angle where the stair will attach] and lag screws on the blocking or joist connections near where the posts will attach. Much of Thu was spent pulling up the appropriate boards and adding the reinforcements. Feeling more confident now that the posts won't twist the rim joists when pressure is applied to the top rail.

First real task was to lay the stones for the stair landing. Three 2'x2' stones laid and levelled.

IMG_4971.jpg

IMG_4972.jpg


Stairs framed and exposed surfaces treated with creosote (I had it so I used it). Tread is 14" run, 6.5" rise. We both like a nice, wide tread.

IMG_4973.jpg


Welp, after dropping the stairs into place, the darn thing is 1" too high. :mad: Okay, (too) much of Fri is spent fiddling with the stones, lowering the overall height and trying to get 'em levelled. Nope, front is low. Lift (the 50lb stone), fiddle with filler, lay it down, still too low. Lift, fiddle, re-lay, too high. Repeat, too low. Repeat, wobbles corner to corner. This occupied a lot of time! I think I added a few new words to the language in the process, but in the end, they were laid and levelled. I think that pouring concrete would have been FAR easier.

Stairs finally attached to deck (plastic is to prevent creosote from staining the blocks).

IMG_4974.jpg


Deck boards, 3 wide, each ripped to 5", on each tread. I then took the router and a 1/2 corner round bit to smooth the leading edge of the treads (I'd already given this treatment to the main deck surface).

IMG_4979.jpg

IMG_4980.jpg

IMG_4978.jpg


Sat, I cut and fitted the fascia boards between the stair treads and along the sides. The fellow who runs the mill knew I was covering a 2x10 so rather than give me two 6" boards, he found and ripped a 10" wide board. Nice!

IMG_4997.jpg

IMG_4999.jpg

IMG_4998.jpg

IMG_5003.jpg


Sat night, we had a campfire party so Sunday saw me making only a half-assed attempt at working on it. Just chopped notches in posts for railings.

Mon, I first screwed up two posts by snipping the tops too short. :mad:

So, more time wasted re-doing two posts to the correct height. Couldn't believe it... I was p**ed at myself for such a stupid mistake. Anyway, got the main deck posts and rails on.

IMG_5000.jpg

IMG_5001.jpg

IMG_5002.jpg

IMG_5004.jpg


Fellow from whom I'd ordered the ballusters decided, without calling me, to not deliver them ("No money in it for me.") That, after I arrived at the lumber yard, on time, to pick up my order which was to have been made ready by noon that day and after I was told that they would be delivered to my home (which was a bit of a journey away, but the fellow was on the phone when I arrived and said he'd do it). One thing I really hate is crappy customer service and such an obvious lack of respect for not even bothering to call to tell me. Anyway, another fellow in a local burg is making up some ballusters for me but I won't have them till next week.

Outstanding: Stair posts and railings, ballusters all round and lattice to hide the framing. This coming weekend is not looking good, weather-wise, however.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

W_KY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
458
Location
Bowling Green, KY
Looks good. So the stones the runners set on seem stable. How big a deck do you think you could do with those instead of setting posts? I'm also considering a deck that is not attached to my house. I have a brick home and in the event it ever needed to be removed, I think if it wasn't attached, it would make things easier.
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Looks good. So the stones the runners set on seem stable. How big a deck do you think you could do with those instead of setting posts? I'm also considering a deck that is not attached to my house. I have a brick home and in the event it ever needed to be removed, I think if it wasn't attached, it would make things easier.

I'm sure there are others here with more experience in construction than I, who can speak better to that question, but from what I understand, you could build pretty much any size you want using blocks. Personally, I would only build a ground hugger (ie: around 24-26" or less) using blocks. If I were building anything with significant height and/or that was to support a large weight (ie: hottub), I'd go to the extra effort of sinking posts. I'd still build it detached from the house though. Using a ledger is a great way to save time and costs while building (don't need that exta beam) but to me, it just seems like a timebomb of rot waiting to happen. After seeing photos of old decks being replaced and the resultant years of water damage, I asked myself: which is easier to repair? I'd rather the deck rot than the house.
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Well, the deck is finished! It was actually finished about three weeks ago or so but I didn't have the camera downloaded so I only took pics in the last few days. Leaves are dropping like crazy now so please excuse the mess. :)

There was a bit of a delay while I sourced white cedar balusters but I had things to do in the meantime. The railings were constructed using 4x4 cedar posts notched for the mounting point and the railings themselves. Once those were bolted on, the railings were cut and fit. Finally, I had the wait for the balusters but they went on quickly with a bit of cutting and some elementary math (for spacing).

The lattice also went in easier than I thought, though it did require some fiddling to get the homemade panels to fit just right. They're not perfect, but I like how they turned out and they do the job. I used the extra material I'd ripped off the decking boards for the steps to make the panel frames. A bit of further ripping and cutting and screwing and I had sturdy panels to mount. I attached some blocking to the joists to provide a mounting point for the panels. Unfortunately, I only have pics of the final job, not of the intervening steps described above but really, all that up there is pretty straightforward stuff.

I wouldn't do notched posts again: 1. they're time consuming to get right, particularly when the material is not milled precisely (more like a rhombus than a square) and 2. they're weaker than unnotched, bolted-on posts. I'd have to do some not-so-insignificant jiggery-pokery to make full posts work with this design, which I neither have the time nor the inclination to do at this point. Next deck though...

IMG_5099.jpg

IMG_5101.jpg

IMG_5102.jpg

IMG_5103.jpg

IMG_5100.jpg

IMG_5104.jpg
 

akdiesel

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
2,617
Location
Wasilla, AK
Very nice work for any finish or non finish worker.
I have one ?.
Do you think you will have any issues with the ceder decking on the stairs and the outer edge pieces with no spacing?
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Thanks guys. I'm not a finish worker (so many of the "tricks of the trade" I either learned late or missed entirely) but I took my time and tried to work as carefully as I could.

I left gaps (nail-width) in the decking material but made the stair boards tight. The fellow from whom I purchased the wood said that the boards would shrink (since the wood is fairly fresh) and so I should **** them up tight. I still wanted good drainage off the deck itself, so I made gaps there).

I'm hoping for no issues.. being cedar, I figure, if it's going to rot, it'll do so slowly. I've pulled posts that were in the ground for 15yrs and only the outer layer (maybe 1cm or so) of the in-ground portion was rotted (anything above ground was in good, albeit weathered, shape). I'll stain it next spring once it's good and dry and that should help it last.
 

metal1313

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
3,416
Location
clinton NJ
it depends, in my area if you leave a gap using pt decking by the next year the gaps will be 3/8-1/2 inch. you gotta **** it up tight if the wood is wet.

assuming the cedar is dried spacing is appropiate, and it will still shrink a bit so the stairs will be fine
 

chrislehr

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
1,704
Location
Portland, OR
Looks AWESOME

questions -

why not dig and bury posts as opposed to what you did?
Whats creosole? whats that do?
Is the deck ledgered to the house? If not, why not go that route?
 
OP
B

babzog

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,117
Location
Eastern Ontario, Canada
Thanks everyone for the nice comments. :)

I decided not to attach it to the house, primarily because I didn't want to cut into the siding and run the risk of future water damage to the house structure (ie: rot). Figured it's cheaper for the deck to rot and be replaced in 20 years than it is to repair the house in that time. As well, if it shifts at all during the freeze/thaw cycle, the level is easy enough to fix (jack it up, adjust the level, set it back down). Around here, free floating decks really are the preferred choice for construction (where applicable, obviously).

I decided to put it on blocks vs posts for a couple of reasons. 1. There's a gas service line in the way that I'd have to design around and dig to find. 2. It's only a couple of feet off the ground. 3. It's not big at only 8x10. Four (or two, if I ledgered it to the house) posts are almost overkill though it would certainly be solid (not that I find any bounce in the deck). 4. Time & Cost - cheaper to use blocks rather than posts and certainly fit better with the limited time I had to complete this. I went back and forth a few times and was this >< close to renting the post hole digger and going for it.

Creosote - the black oil in which (for example) telephone poles are soaked. It's a terrific wood preservative - Dad used to paint the in-ground portion of all fenceposts with it when my parents were building fences for the horse pastures. It stinks but it works.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom