Building a garage around septic system

[Kevin_b_c]

My plan has changed since last week when I was only planning on raising and building in my current carport to allow me to drive my trailer into the backyard. (My introductory thread)

I have abandoned that plan because it would put my shop directly beside 3 different bedrooms, and I like to tinker late into the night. Now, my plan is to leave the existing carport for now, and build a steel garage in the backyard. I'm looking at this style of steel building. Once the garage is complete, I will remove the existing carport.

I had a septic company come by yesterday to locate my distribution box and septic field. Unfortunately, it's location limits my garage site to a specific area and size.

(Grid lines every 4ft)

Now, I'm pretty sure I should be ok to build over the sewer line from the tank to the distribution box. My question is how close I can build to the tank hatch, or the distribution box. Could I build over the tank and allow an access hatch in the garage floor?

As it stands, the size of the shop would be 24w x 28d (which the above picture shows), or a 20w x 32d. Setback from property line needs to be 1.5m or 4.92ft.

Any comments or input is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Kevin.

 

[38Chevy454]

You don't want to build over the septic tank, what if you ever have a problem and need to dig it out? It is not just an access issue for pumping.

I have no idea on what it would cost, but how about moving the distribution point back and straightening the leach lines out? That would give potential for another 8-10 ft of depth. Stay 24 ft wide, 20 will be too tight.

 

[pattenp]

Are there any local restrictions as to how close or even if you're allowed to build over the septic line or tank?

 

[ForceFed70]

You'll want to relocate the septic line between the tank and the distribution box. Might be forced to anyway.

How are you going to get vehicles, etc back there? Through the carport?

 

[SARG]

My impression of your initial plans ........ "That guy is nuts".

Do not build over or near your septic system ....... It will require maintenance at some point.

From your sketch you should rerun your pipes to the leach field or forget the whole concept. And when you factor in the cost of the new septic piping with labor the price per foot has now gone way up.

 

[Steevo]

Is sewer service available in the area today?

Looking at your picture and diagram, you have a big-*** tree growing right on your main line, so it is probably toast anyway.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

You don't want to build over the septic tank, what if you ever have a problem and need to dig it out? It is not just an access issue for pumping.

I have no idea on what it would cost, but how about moving the distribution point back and straightening the leach lines out? That would give potential for another 8-10 ft of depth. Stay 24 ft wide, 20 will be too tight.

That's a good idea, moving the distribution box back would create more depth to work with, although, it would reduce the size of the field.

Is sewer service available in the area today?

Looking at your picture and diagram, you have a big-*** tree growing right on your main line, so it is probably toast anyway.

No service currently available. I'll post up my site plan with the trees marked on it. The trunk of that large Fir in that photo behind the carport is about 18feet away from the line from the tank to the distribution box. The whole septic system was inspected, and it is in very good condition.

My impression of your initial plans ........ "That guy is nuts".

Do not build over or near your septic system ....... It will require maintenance at some point.

From your sketch you should rerun your pipes to the leach field or forget the whole concept. And when you factor in the cost of the new septic piping with labor the price per foot has now gone way up.

The only parts of the septic system I could see having to have access to for maintenance would be the tank and the distribution box. If there were issues with the line between, i could always re-route it.

You'll want to relocate the septic line between the tank and the distribution box. Might be forced to anyway.

How are you going to get vehicles, etc back there? Through the carport?

That might be a good idea to look into now, rather than if/when it fails in the future.
Access for now, would be through the carport. I can open up the back wall/fence of the carport and drive through. After the garage is complete, I plan to be demolishing the carport.

Are there any local restrictions as to how close or even if you're allowed to build over the septic line or tank?

I am looking into that at the moment. I have to talk with the septic company.

Thanks for all the input. As you can see, I'm a bit limited on where the garage can be cited. I'm open to all suggestions.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Looking at your picture and diagram, you have a big-*** tree growing right on your main line, so it is probably toast anyway.

Here's the position of the trees on the lot. Both #1 (Fir) and #2 (Cherry) will have to be cut down to make this garage happen.

 

[Nowater]

Can you build behind the patio? Drive thru the carport for access?

 

[Angelfire]

Code here says no closer than 8 ft. I've been told by a number of folks to heed this and go further if at all possible.

 

[Steevo]

How about installing a new septic tank and re-routing the feed to the other end of your leach field like this:

 

[Jimmy_B]

Make sure anything is even possible permit wise. In my area you wouldn't be able to do anything. I have a working septic system but was still required to identify an alternative site should the current system fail in the future. If the newly identified site was to only buildable portion of my property the permit would have denied.

Good luck. Looks like you'll have a nice set up when it's all done.

 

[ishiboo]

Do not build over a tank or drainfield.

I would not mind building over the line, but realize if you crush or damage it you will have to pay to have a new one rerouted around your building.

Make sure the excavation/building crew knows EXACTLY where the drainfield is and does NOT run heavy equipment over it. Compacting this area with equipment (even a regular truck) will destroy the field and soil percolation and it's not an easy fix. You may not even be able to build a conventional system again so you may be stuck getting a $20,000 mound, depending on your location and local rules!

 

[Wastedwagesracing]

Not sure if this applies to your situation or not. But I had to plan an alternative site for a new drain field if I ever need one. So basically I have my drain field and then another site that I can not build on. Not a huge issue for me. But could be depending on the size of your lot.

 

[Kevin54]

I think you may be **** out of luck building in the back anywhere. I was told that when I built my garage, I had to have enough room to put in a new leach bed if the old one goes bad. Which they do at times. I had room to build my garage but none of my neighbors do because their leach bed is like yours. And when or if you put in a new septic system, most of the time, they will abandon the old leach bed and put in a new one. Also, and it may depend on location, but our type of system now requires that you have a perimeter tile and also a bypass valve so you can change from one set of tiles to another.

About the only thing you can really do is call your county and see what the rules and regs are today. Every place is different.

 

[Crusher47]

How about installing a new septic tank and re-routing the feed to the other end of your leach field like this:

+1 then build deep garage where carport is now, just twice as long

 

[Mattlt]

Not sure if this applies to your situation or not. But I had to plan an alternative site for a new drain field if I ever need one. So basically I have my drain field and then another site that I can not build on. Not a huge issue for me. But could be depending on the size of your lot.

Good advice. In my area, most "standard" drainfields are being replaced by "mound systems" when the original system fails or otherwise require replacement. How old is your current system? Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and replace it while building the new garage?

 

[Bobf]

I'll echo what several others have said, check your local code. When I wanted to build my garage (24X30) I was hit with the "must keep 100% reserve area available" and all lines must be 10' apart and away from structures and property lines. My 1 acre lot immediately shrunk to a very small area to build the garage, right in front of the existing house.

 

[grumpygator]

Why not build a two car garage where the carport is and install a third door on the back wall.That way you don't have to mess with the septic or the drainfield.
*********Just Saying***********Gator***************

 

[jpinca]

1. Get a copy of your DEH's septic system requirements. I'd be surprised is they don't require setting aside area for a replacement drainfield. My DEH actually required I install the second field.

2. it seems like you abandoned the original plan because of potential noise to the bedrooms. If so, then you may be way ahead working on a good soundproofing solution to to original plan.

 

[RPH]

I don't see how routing a new line to the end of the leach fields will work. Mine has a slight downhill run to it. Hard to get water to go up hill on it's own. Also have the set aside for future replacement is most likely and will be the killer.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Wow, thanks for all the input. I will look into the rules regarding setbacks from tank/distribution box and about having a replacement location set out. Even if its not a regulation, its a good idea to plan ahead.
I would have to guess at the age of the current septic system. The house was built in 1978, and the original septic plans shows it going out the opposite side of the house (I'll try to find that plan and post it). The tank was pumped and field flushed Nov. 2011, three months before we bought and moved in, and the report says everything is "very good". This last Wed, i had them flush and locate the field. The septic guys said it's still in great shape and draining very well. So I think it's safe to assume it has been replaced somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

1. Get a copy of your DEH's septic system requirements. I'd be surprised is they don't require setting aside area for a replacement drainfield. My DEH actually required I install the second field.

2. it seems like you abandoned the original plan because of potential noise to the bedrooms. If so, then you may be way ahead working on a good soundproofing solution to to original plan.

Why not build a two car garage where the carport is and install a third door on the back wall.That way you don't have to mess with the septic or the drainfield.
*********Just Saying***********Gator***************

The other reason for abandoning the Carport idea is because of the width i'd be limited to. I'd like to make the garage as large as I can.
I'll enquire about the rules next week sometime. I really hope I'll be able to build something in the backyard.
Our second child should be born any day now, so my mind is not 100% garage.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Scratch that, found them online. So if i read this correctly, I have to maintain a 3' setback from the tank, and 5' from the field.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

That was bad quality. Let me find a better one.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Here we go.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

I have talked with a Registered Waste Water Practitioner in my area. Aparently I can't build over the line between the tank and the distribution box, unless it was reenforced pipe. So I may have to relocate the line, and also my tank. Unfortunately, that's going to eat into my Garage fund.

To add to the cost of building a detached garage, the bylaws in my area limit the height of "detached accessory buildings" to 3.75m (or just over 12' 3"). This limit isn't going to work because I want to have 11'h garage doors to fit my travel trailer (10'6"h) in/through. So, to increase that bylaw limit, I would need to apply to the board of variance ($275 non refundable) to increase the max height. To successfully do that, I'd have to show "an indication of the ‘undue hardship’ that necessitates the application". Aaarg. Anyone on here have any experience with that?

So, now I am back to thinking about building off the side of my house where the carport is. If I do this, the height limit wouldn't be an issue, as the principal building height limit is about 7' over the roof of my house. The downside to this is my garage would be limited to about 13' 6" in width.
I could extend it into the backyard a bit, and maybe have it go wider at the back, but I could only go back about 12 feet before I come into issues with the pipe again.

So currently, I'm waiting to get a quote on the relocation of the tank & line or just the line. This is going to be the deciding factor of which option I can go with. I'll try to put together plans of the options I'm left with.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Green Area = Area possible to build
Red Area = Setbacks from septic

Option #1: Build off the side of the house.
The GOOD: No alterations to septic
The BAD: Width limited to 13'6". Noise issues with proximity to bedrooms.

Option #2: Build off the side of the house, then go wider at the back.
The GOOD: Wider area at the back possible (up to 24' possibly?)
The BAD: Alterations to septic needed. Noise issues with proximity to bedrooms.

Option #3: Build detached garage (With height limit approval from board of variance)
The GOOD: Build up to a 24'w x 32'deep garage.
The BAD: Alterations to septic needed.

 

[crf731]

If it was me, I'd put the garage in the back corner of your lot and look into either rebuilding your current septic system to facilitate tha garage or installing an aerobic or some other type of septic system.

 

[Kevin54]

If it was me, I'd put the garage in the back corner of your lot and look into either rebuilding your current septic system to facilitate tha garage or installing an aerobic or some other type of septic system.

That's about a $5000-$20,000 expenditure tight there. And in moving a septic system, chances are they will pit in a complete new one instead of screwing with an old one. Also new ones (around here) have to have a perimeter drain and a switch box to switch off every six months whick line are being fed. A few years back they redone a lot of stuff when it comes to septic. Then comes into consideration where the well is located. A septic system has to be located opposite the well on the property.

Kevin......have you gave it a though to add on to the back some, add on to the side, and do the majority of adding on to the front? *** on to the side and back for your camper then remodel the front for a two car garage. Ise isolation drywall between the house and garage to keep sound down.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

If it was me, I'd put the garage in the back corner of your lot and look into either rebuilding your current septic system to facilitate tha garage or installing an aerobic or some other type of septic system.

I'd consider that if the current septic system was in bad condition, but I'd probably spend a good chunk of my garage budget relocating it.

Then comes into consideration where the well is located. A septic system has to be located opposite the well on the property.

On city water here, so no wells to worry about.

Kevin......have you gave it a though to add on to the back some, add on to the side, and do the majority of adding on to the front? *** on to the side and back for your camper then remodel the front for a two car garage. Ise isolation drywall between the house and garage to keep sound down.

I wish I could build off the front. The bylaws in my area require setbacks of 7.5m (~24' 6") from the front lot line, and 1.5m (~5') from the side lot line.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Well, I am now contemplating replacing the septic system. I got a quote of$7-10,000 to replace & relocate it. I guess it could be worse.
I don't think I'd ever be happy with the size of the garage built off the side of the house. With the new septic system, I can size it to allow for a future suite with separate laundry in the house. It would also allow me to add a bathroom to the garage, and a sani-dump for my trailer.
Only thing is that will seriously cut into my budget for the garage.

The 24x32 garage kit I've been quoted is $15,520.
That includes:
Frame, Sheeting, Flashing 21 colors to choose from 25 year warranty, Roof and wall insulation and vapor barrier kit, 16 x 7 Insulated garage door, 1-36" pre-hung steel man door, Screws, Anchors, Gaskets, Delivery and unloading on site. Engineered Drawing includes concrete, Schedules B & C including two site inspections & Documentation for Permits.

This is now the lot plan I am thinking. Instead of the 16x7 garage door the kit comes with, I'll be putting in two 10w x 12h doors. This will allow me to pull my trailer through to a pad behind the garage that I will eventually cover with a carport.

 

[toyville]

I would build Option 2 as it helps with one of the biggest issues you have which is the building height restriction. Since this option is attched and you have a 2 story house you can easily high enough to clear your trailer and still have room to park the trailer and what ever else in the back yard.

Also since by the looks of your plans you want a bathroom and this option would be the easiest option to add that into your home water and sewer system.

Option 3 also means the least amount of change to the septic system and of coarse cost. which means you would have extra cash for things like a hoist since you would have the ceiling height.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

The plan as of today is back to square one. My original plan of raising my existing carport is now first on the list. It will make the rest of the jobs in the backyard go alot smoother without having the height restriction that the current height of the carport presents (7').

New Plan:
-Raise the existing carport
-Replace Septic
-Build garage in backyard

I'll start a new thread to get some ideas on rasing this attached carport.

So, to end this thread, there was no working around my septic system. Replacing it will be the best option in the end for my situation.

 

[Kevin_b_c]

Carport is down. Next will be the tree.

 

[Dustball]

If noise is still a concern- incorporate soundproofing techniques into the separating wall.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Well, I was going to suggest moving. That is what a friend had to do to get around the septic conflicts you are having and a difficult site. It helped that his wife did not like the house.

With the carport down you have no choice but to go ahead.

In the past, others here have gotten around detached building restrictions by connecting their shop/garage to the house with a breezeway.

Good luck.

 

[smokem2020]

I'd build a two story garage. Put my man cave up stairs. Have a fireman's pole.

 

[CNGsaves]

Depending on setback rules on left property line (you'll need to research your city/county rules), I'd go as BIG as possible.

Possible brainstorm idea - - - - Go UP and BACK (with drive-thru design). This will let you leave the septic system unchanged. The only thing you might need to do is cut down Fir tree # 1 (possibly).

See red area in pic 1 below where I'd propose you raise roof of carport up to height of house but change roofline the other way (ie like pic 2).

Go with a big tall door like 10'x12' as it looks like you have RV trailer that you might want to pull through to the back yard for storage. Thus, you'd have similar tall 10'x12' door in the back. With proper temporary support on ground, you could park trailer under simple aluminum carport that is behind garage, but near or on the septic lateral.

With real tall garage ceilings like 14' you could have a 4 post lift to store a car up top and effectively have a 3 car garage.

Likely not cheap, but it's an alternative if you can't buy property to left of house.

 

[Diesel Dan]

Well, I was going to suggest moving.

Same here, I was considering option #4.