Building a new garage Suggestions

[Diese1nut]

Hello all,

Well after taking two years to secure the land, I am planning a new garage build. I am really open for suggestion on construction type. I have no zoning restrictions or concerns. I am building on 2 acres of fairly flat land. I hope to get the tree cutting done over the winter and begin construction in the spring.

I am retired but love to work on my own stuff. I also flip trucks, boats and motorcycles for extra cash. My goal is to have my dream garage on the first floor and 2 possibly 4 apartments on the second floor to pay the bills. Incorporating the stairs to the second floor is a bit of a challenge because I hate to loose the inside garage space but don't want them outside due to snow and ice.

Here is my wish list:
Size 40x60 +- two story with open first floor space.
16' ceiling
One 14'x14' door and two or three smaller garage doors.

Inside I hope to have one two post lift and one four post. Also one motorcycle lift.
Outside I want to have a loading dock at the back and a pit to wash the bottom of vehicles.

I have been researching buildings for a long time and still haven't decided on the construction. The problem is that all the good contractors are busy and are hard to find. I am open to wood frame, metal bldg, even cement block if we can make it look right.

The last garage I built was 35x35 two story wood construction. I designed it myself with an I beam through the middle with a trolley and It became too small very quickly.

The timber frame and BarnPro buildings are nice but I really need the open floor plan.

Well this is just the beginning. I look forward to all of the input.

Thank you,
Bob

 

[matt_i]

Unless you are opposed to the look of it I would build a straight shot exterior staircase to a common hallway that accessed all of your apartments. Everything would be very easy to move in and out, from furniture to the materials to build the building. Parking lot right next to the end of the stairs for your tenants.

As far as the exterior stairs, just build a simple unheated shell around it. Could even be a roof-only pole structure if you make it wide enough.

Once you get into kitchens and bathrooms, HVAC and water/sewer the cost goes way up but you probably already knew that.

 

[6768rogues]

I would build the apartments in a separate building or make them abut the side of the shop. A building with 16 foot ceilings and a second floor is going to be really tall, and you will have to frame the ceiling/floor assembly to take the load. Do you have a building code? How does it treat emergency egress from an apartment whose windows are 20 feet from the ground? Will you need a fire resistant separation between the shop and the apartments? Will tenants want to climb what is the equivalent of two flights of stairs for access to the apartments? How will you mitigate fumes and noise migrating from the shop to the apartments? If there is a shortage of housing in your area it might rent, but I wouldn't want to live up there.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I would build the apartments in a separate building or make them abut the side of the shop. A building with 16 foot ceilings and a second floor is going to be really tall, and you will have to frame the ceiling/floor assembly to take the load. Do you have a building code? How does it treat emergency egress from an apartment whose windows are 20 feet from the ground? Will you need a fire resistant separation between the shop and the apartments? Will tenants want to climb what is the equivalent of two flights of stairs for access to the apartments? How will you mitigate fumes and noise migrating from the shop to the apartments? If there is a shortage of housing in your area it might rent, but I wouldn't want to live up there.

All valid concerns. I don't know that I'd want to live above a shop where there was a lot of noise and smells.

 

[gunguy]

Is anything else going on your 2-acre lot?

Jim

 

[James-W]

Re: Building a new garage Suggestions

All valid concerns. I don't know that I'd want to live above a shop where there was a lot of noise and smells.

I agree. I have no idea how strict the building rules/codes are where the opening poster is, but around here if you have living quarters above a garage there are VERY strict rules/codes about how you do it. I realize the opening poster said that he has no zoning restrictions or concerns, but this isn't really the same thing.

 

[Diese1nut]

Thanks for the input. Yes even though we don't have zoning we do need to follow State building codes.

I have considered the climb. Once I get the lot cleared I will have a better picture of my options. Ideally I would like to get the garage portion recessed about 3/4 of the way in the ground on two sides. If I can get enough slope to make that happen there would only be a handful of steps up to the living quarters.

I have worked in several commercial buildings that were noisy with either offices or living quarters above without a noise issue. Yes it will require noise suppression and fire rated ceiling.

I have not ruled out making the building even longer with ground level quarters on one end.

There are no other structures planned on the lot at this time.

 

[sberry]

My neighbor just built a 56/60. This IS something to shoot for. He figured out he could do it all thru 1 bigger door. You will find the 3 other small doors to be a brain fart, you might use 1. A dock is a big expence, I do understand to want to wash under, had 1 I did the other day by pulling up to the edge of the dock, was wishing for some extensions to get the wheels farther ahead, its pretty rare I need it though and in the summer I put heavy plank to a truck bed as a bridge.
I actually have a paint fan in my dock door, used it as a traditional dock once in 25 years and it was for special job most would never have. I use it outside quite a bit, mostly loading tractors on flat bed, again, something not common to many.
Go for more sq ft on the ground and less expense on second floor. 10 ft wider makes a huge difference, if your old 35 wide filled fast a 40 isnt much difference.

 

[Augus7us]

Sounds like a lot of head ache for what should be a nice pleasant hobby shop to enjoy your retirement.

I wouldn't want the headache of tenants anywhere near a place like what you want. Too much to worry about, as mentioned above. Plus all your tools, cars and everything are on display to your tenants. One bad apple seeing all your stuff and you could be the victim of theft. Fire is also a concern, been a few recent posts of tenants burning someone's rental down.

Personally I'd build two separate buildings on two different pieces of land if I was set on doing this.

 

[Copymutt]

One thing you'll never regret doing is installing two OH doors so you can drive through. Great for trailers, boats, snowmobiles etc. easy in easy out.

 

[Diese1nut]

All good points. The reason for the apartments is the tax rate is pretty high, so if I can get those and the utility's covered it would be nice. I will probably only have two apartments and they will be small one bedroom non smoking. Tenants will not have access to the garage area at all. I know it's still a risk.

The loading dock can be away from the building. I have a 45' storage trailer that is nice to drive into with forks. I will use it for loading tractors and such on flat beds as well.

I can live with one maybe two overhead doors. I didn't really think about driving through but that's a nice idea.

Now you all have me thinking. There is a local welding shop here and it is a large steel building maybe 50x80 and they have an apartment on one end up on a mezzanine with access from the outside. They also use the space underneath for there office and tool room. As it is only a tall one story building the stairway to the apartment is not that high, only half of the height. This type would let me get the garage up and then build out the apartment after.

 

[matt_i]

This type would let me get the garage up and then build out the apartment after.

One central theme I see is that you need to plan for the 2nd floor loads while building the foundation.

If it were a wood framed building I believe you need a footing pad set below the frost line and concrete stem wall going up. Or a frost protected foundation. But you need the large concrete pad to distribute the 2nd floor loads plus roof loads into the soil.

A red-iron building is slightly different, but you'd already have 5 figures into concrete, but in my opinion you'd need to add provisions into the steel framing for easy attachment, and to have those loads considered in the foundation design.

One question, I'm guessing this type of build is low end $100/sqft. So that's around $240k. Is that inline with what you were expecting to pay for it? You never mentioned building septic system + drainfield or drilling a well (or city-supplied services) because those also cost extra.

 

[bad_idea]

2 acres is a lot of land. What's the issue with building a separate apartment building at the front of the property and the shop in the back? Put a fence across the property to separate the apartment building from the shop. I could see tenants walking across the lot and being struck by a forklift. Dumber things have happened. With a fenced off area it keeps them out of your shop area (not only the building but the yard around it).

Another question, hope this doesn't come across as morbid. How long you planning to live? How much will the additional cost of the apartment add to the over all build? How long will it take for the apartment to pay for itself and then begin to pay for the taxes/utilities on the property. Once you sort that math, is it worth it?

 

[Diese1nut]

I understand taking the load into consideration is upmost important. We also have a snow load to deal with and snow unloading as well.

As far as budget it is not unlimited so I will do quite a bit myself. I will sub out the tree work, and concrete. For the site work, I can do most myself with help from friends. Septic and drainage I will have to pay for a design but can do the install. Well water. The water table is not to deep as researched in the area, so I am planning on a dug well.

I am 60 years old so I am hoping to use it for a fair amount of time. I am also trying to lay it out as a commercial property should I need to sell in the future. The apartments could be converted into offices. If I totally clear the lot it has great exposure being a corner lot in a fairly busy area. I have tried to attach a picture of the lot.

I am a big fan of security and plan total video surveillance.

 

[Charlie51]

Be sure that the foundation on that flat land is sited high enough to preclude water entering the building. That can be from extra-heavy rains or from the spring thaw after an exceptionally snowy winter.

 

[Diese1nut]

Re: Building a new garage

Thanks to everyone for the input. It has been almost a year since my last posting.

It is finally happening. The lot is cleared and the foundation is in. I ended up with a 48' x 80' footprint. Have a 10" footing with 4' frost wall. Exterior will be 8" below top of wall and interior 4" below top of wall. Have one 14x14 door on north end with a walk in door in the corner. I have one 10x10 door on the west side 30' from the south end.
I decided to go with a Morton Building with the cold weather package. The building is scheduled to be delivered the last week in January and construction will immediately follow. They expect completion in 3 to 4 weeks from delivery.
I have attached a picture of the foundation and a poor quality picture of the plan.
On the south end there are windows and doors placed for either offices or living quarters on both levels. The south 22' x 48' is layed out for a future build out. The garage area is 48'x58'x16'8"
Morton has provided the appropriate headers around the south end to accommodate a 22' mezzanine across the end. The roof pitch is 4/12 with snow retention over the side doors. The east side and garage areas have higher windows for sunlight only.
The frost wall and footing are fully insulated as I am installing radiant heat throughout. I will have many questions to follow on the heating.
Hope to get the electrical main line run to building soon if the frost allows. I have done all the site work and preparation myself to save money but had to bring in about 2500 yards of fill to get the elevation were it needed to be.
I am probably going to be living there myself and rent out the condo where I am now. That way I won't need to worry about tenants around the garage.
It has been a very laborious task to this point but well worth the effort.

I will have many more questions and try to keep everyone posted.