Building a shop crane into the foundation.

[dreamingmuscle]

Like the title says want to put a custom home built shop crane in my son's new shop.

Been watching Paul Cox on YouTube. Fabrats is his channel, funny guy builds mostly rock crawler stuff, and making repairs to family vehicles. Nothing he does is pretty cool but not pretty LOL.

Any way when he built his shop he put a two ton truck axle into the floor. He built a crane on top of the hub and uses a semi cage brake to hold it in place. Works like a charm.

Well two ton truck axles are in short supply around here. So I was thinking of using a Trailer axle. 3500 pound axles are plentiful and cheap but a Little too small I think. Any thing above 3500 pounds almost doubles the price. Mobil home axles are plentiful but not so cheap also.

So any suggestions?

Video of said shop crane here. It's only a 9 minute vid and the crane is at about 1:45

 

[LopezBart]

Historically, I think most shop cranes were jib cranes, with the building walls providing the horizontal strength. Now that shops no longer have dirt floors, self-supporting cranes are much easier. Here's an old thread on the subject:

Home made jib crane with photos

Hi I have been reading her for a while and thought I'd put somthing back, I have been having a hard time lifting things on and off the mill and the lathe for some time and usually had to get a hand off someone (usually my son) to give me a lift. The problem is not age but a broken disc in my...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Historically, I think most shop cranes were jib cranes, with the building walls providing the horizontal strength. Now that shops no longer have dirt floors, self-supporting cranes are much easier. Here's an old thread on the subject:

Home made jib crane with photos

Hi I have been reading her for a while and thought I'd put somthing back, I have been having a hard time lifting things on and off the mill and the lathe for some time and usually had to get a hand off someone (usually my son) to give me a lift. The problem is not age but a broken disc in my...

www.garagejournal.com

That's a nice build but very limited in range and height. I think it could have been built with a little more reach though.

 

[LopezBart]

Whatever you end up doing, get someone with a solid engineering background to validate the design. A nice fat factor safety factor is a good idea. If I get a crane, I'll go with a portable gantry since it can go with me on the equipment trailer. If I get a 10' wide unit, it will span the trailer.

 

[zkdiesel]

Just go buy a used job crane. Cheap to buy!

Foundation is key.

I have 4 jibs. All have proper foundations.
Your reach makes it scary for the forces applied

What he has is very sketchy

 

[rancherbill]

Take the advice in this thread and get professional help. Don't' take advice from a guy that just has one. It is not rated, or properly designed, or a hundred other things. It, at this point, cannot be described as 'works great", it can described as "works so far."

 

[zkdiesel]

Take the advice in this thread and get professional help. Don't' take advice from a guy that just has one. It is not rated, or properly designed, or a hundred other things. It at this point cannot be described as 'works great", is described as "works so far."

Only thing I liked in section of video I watched was the air can brake but there’s many ways to do that

 

[Hakeem]

Forgive me if I underestimate your capabilities but Rigging up a cantilevered crane from an old truck axle sounds insanely dangerous. A two-post hoist type of thing would be safer but I don’t think this is the kind of thing you want to be making yourself. The risk:benefit ratio is totally unfavorable

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Forgive me if I underestimate your capabilities but Rigging up a cantilevered crane from an old truck axle sounds insanely dangerous. A two-post hoist type of thing would be safer but I don’t think this is the kind of thing you want to be making yourself. The risk:benefit ratio is totally unfavorable

Why? A two ton axle is designed to hold a lot more then let's say a engine. Axles are are also designed for impact loads stresses too.

This will just be lifting static loads of what 400-600 pounds or so. Not counting the jib crane materials weight.

He's not going to building tanks here.

 

[racecougar]

You're discounting the effect of the lever arm length.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Used Jib cranes do seem to be plenty plentiful. So might as well not reinvent the wheel here.

 

[mike93lx]

I am confused on what an axle has to do with this, but I am also confused on how the loads imparted on a jib crane are comparable to what an axle is designed for.

Very few people are going to encourage someone to cobble together a hoisting device

 

[racecougar]

I am confused on what an axle has to do with this, but I am also confused on how the loads imparted on a jib crane are comparable to what an axle is designed for.

The video in the OP shows/mentions a 2-ton truck axle embedded in the floor as the base of a jib crane. The OP was looking to do the same with a 3500lb trailer axle.

 

[zkdiesel]

Used Jib cranes do seem to be plenty plentiful. So might as well not reinvent the wheel here.

Your best idea yet

 

[mike93lx]

The video in the OP shows/mentions a 2-ton truck axle embedded in the floor as the base of a jib crane. The OP was looking to do the same with a 3500lb trailer axle.

Using the flange for the mount? Or as some sort of reinforcement?

 

[zkdiesel]

Using the flange for the mount? Or as some sort of reinforcement?

A 305 would bend that up

 

[racecougar]

Using the flange for the mount? Or as some sort of reinforcement?

As the embedded column base.

 

[loganb]

Used Jib cranes do seem to be plenty plentiful. So might as well not reinvent the wheel here.

Yes. They're cheap, biggest challenge is going to be moving them. You can often get them at factory/company close out auctions for pennies a pound, but they have to be removed by an insured rigger. They'll normally have a rigging contact on the auction you can call to get a price quote to take down and load on a trailer.

Once you get it home, as ZK mentions the foundation is critical so that part needs done right. Depth, soil prep, reinforcement. It's not necessarily "hard" but the forces on a jib crane are often under estimated

A cheaper option for a new build can also be a single axis trolley crane. A properly sized steel beam, supported on both ends with a steel post on the proper foundation may be easier to put in, but can be less useful cause it only goes in 1 direction.

Don't think I have any pictures on this computer of the foundation for this crane in the farm shop, but it's big. It was placed there so we could use it to swing over the welding/machining area as well as 2 bays where equipment would often be

 

[mike93lx]

As the embedded column base.

That's nuts

 

[racecougar]

That's nuts

Yep.

 

[cvairwerks]

The 24' tall jibs we had at work were rated for 500 pounds at the tip of the boom. Boom was 12' in length. The sockets for the columns were set in 10' cubes of concrete, and rebar spiked to the existing floor, which which was 24" thick in that area.

 

[wssix99]

Just go buy a used job crane. Cheap to buy!

Foundation is key.

I have 4 jibs. All have proper foundations.
Your reach makes it scary for the forces applied

What he has is very sketchy

Indeed. The guy in the video is benefiting from some dome luck in his placement of his "foundation". A proper foundation is isolated from the slab, which keeps things from cracking all to hell. The guy in the video placed the crane at the corner of a controlled section and got lucky that things didn't crack up.

... and the rig in the video will never be able to withstand the forces that can be put on the end of that arm. That a contraption I won't stand under or near.

 

[dura eagle]

Yes. They're cheap, biggest challenge is going to be moving them. You can often get them at factory/company close out auctions for pennies a pound, but they have to be removed by an insured rigger. They'll normally have a rigging contact on the auction you can call to get a price quote to take down and load on a trailer.

Once you get it home, as ZK mentions the foundation is critical so that part needs done right. Depth, soil prep, reinforcement. It's not necessarily "hard" but the forces on a jib crane are often under estimated

A cheaper option for a new build can also be a single axis trolley crane. A properly sized steel beam, supported on both ends with a steel post on the proper foundation may be easier to put in, but can be less useful cause it only goes in 1 direction.

Don't think I have any pictures on this computer of the foundation for this crane in the farm shop, but it's big. It was placed there so we could use it to swing over the welding/machining area as well as 2 bays where equipment would often be

That photo looks very familiar your dads buddy form western Kansas now in Missouri here.

 

[PoorUB]

Any way when he built his shop he put a two ton truck axle into the floor. He built a crane on top of the hub and uses a semi cage brake to hold it in place. Works like a charm.

I might be wrong, but I would assume he has the top of the column for that crane supported from the structure of the building. The bending load on the bearing in the floor on a jib crane is crazy without a top support.

I could do the math, but he is about ten feet up, and another 8-10 feet over with the arm. Hang 500 pounds at the end of the arm and the bending load at the floor is huge.

I worked at a machine shop and we had two 500 pound jib cranes that we built. The upper end on both was tied into the building.

 

[loganb]

That photo looks very familiar your dads buddy form western Kansas now in Missouri here.

LOL

Hi! Good luck with your move....it came up in a conversation last night!

 

[LopezBart]

I worked at a machine shop and we had two 500 pound jib cranes that we built. The upper end on both was tied into the building.

If the building is designed with adequate shear strength in the walls and they're properly fastened to the foundation against uplift, this works well, since the size of the wall panels can reduce the reaction loads to reasonable levels. The antique machine shops I've seen used cranes like this.

For me, moving heavy things is rare enough that I'm willing to spend time rigging temporary lifting mechanisms. When I pulled the boiler out of our smaller steamboat, I didn't have a good lifting point high enough, so I bought some long 4x4s, and fashioned a tripod that would straddle our boat; I then lifted the boiler, and slid the boat out from under.

 

[LopezBart]

The DOD has lots of info about temporary lifting rigs; take a look at https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/5-125/fm5-125.pdf.

 

[speed bump]

You don't want the rotation mechanism at the bottom.

If you don't want a big base then you will end up putting a bunch of concrete in for a base. I was visiting with one of our contractors and they put in a piece of 16" sch 30 42 inches in the ground and poured a 4x4 block of concrete around it then added stiffeners at the top of the concrete. That for them will handle a 10 ft swing at ~3000 lbs

My quick and dirty idea for a while has been a piece of 6-8 inch pipe with a Super duty unit bearing in the top and some cheap roller bearings for the lower support. Use a 6-7ish ft piece of S6 for the rail. Then at the base go roughly 30x30 of half inch plate the base with a bunch of stiffeners. Set on 6" of concrete with epoxy anchors that will do most of whatever the home gamer will do with a jib crane at 8 ft. I haven't ran the numbers yet so certain parts of that may change when I decide it's time to build one but that's in the ball park of what an existing commercial unit looks like.

 

[racecougar]

You don't want the rotation mechanism at the bottom.

Bingo.

 

[zkdiesel]

You don't want the rotation mechanism at the bottom.

If you don't want a big base then you will end up putting a bunch of concrete in for a base. I was visiting with one of our contractors and they put in a piece of 16" sch 30 42 inches in the ground and poured a 4x4 block of concrete around it then added stiffeners at the top of the concrete. That for them will handle a 10 ft swing at ~3000 lbs

My quick and dirty idea for a while has been a piece of 6-8 inch pipe with a Super duty unit bearing in the top and some cheap roller bearings for the lower support. Use a 6-7ish ft piece of S6 for the rail. Then at the base go roughly 30x30 of half inch plate the base with a bunch of stiffeners. Set on 6" of concrete with epoxy anchors that will do most of whatever the home gamer will do with a jib crane at 8 ft. I haven't ran the numbers yet so certain parts of that may change when I decide it's time to build one but that's in the ball park of what an existing commercial unit looks like.

But used commercial units can be bought so cheap or free it’s not worth it

 

[backupbeeper]

Is just get a used overhead crane
Or a portable one


I see em for sale all the time .

 

[speed bump]

But used commercial units can be bought so cheap or free it’s not worth it

Depends on where you are. Here they rarely come up for sale and they are priced in accordance. If that was the case I would have a jib crane off the side of my driveway already. For building one I have access to a plasma table and a scrap bin that occasionally has a salvageable piece of pipe that is the right size so other than design and assembly I can build one pretty cheap.