Building a shop in city limits

[CaptainYARRR]

Hey all,

I'm shopping around to have someone install a 40x50 shop at my new home in Cedar Park TX within the city limits. So far it seems that the couple barn builders that can handle the entire job are afraid of building in city limits.

Cedar Park seems very reasonable on their requirements for things like size and height.

They say that the construction must conform to these standards:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/code/362/6072312
2012 International Residential Building Codes

Reading it over, nothing seems too crazy. Am I missing something that is a show stopper? I'm not an engineer so much of it is greek to me. Their main concern seems to be the slab. In these codes is building a wooden building without a slab acceptable and I just pour that later?

 

[Falcon67]

http://www.cedarparktexas.gov/home/showdocument?id=4194

Which leads here
http://z2.franklinlegal.net/frankli...set&collection=cedarpark&documentid=1227#1227

Size limits
F. The total of accessory buildings cannot exceed twenty (20) percent coverage of the backyard of a single-family or duplex residence, not to exceed two thousand (2,000) square feet, and not to exceed the size of the principal structure.

G. For any lot of five (5) acres or greater, the total square footage of accessory buildings shall not exceed four thousand (4,000) square feet, with exception of a private airplane hanger [hangar] as provided in this section. For property located within one thousand (1,000) feet of an airport landing strip, a private airplane hangar for the sole purpose of airplane storage is permitted, however, only for the owner or lessee of the principal building.

I didn't find a foundation plan (something we have available locally) so you'd have to ask more about that. The IRC can be pretty generic, so it helps if the city has some documents that spell out "this is what we expect for an accessory building foundation plan". "Wat we'us wanna see 'round hee-ya" in local speak.

 

[jackson1701]

My thoughts, and you'll receive many here, would be to take your plans to the town building where they issue the permits. every town has their own codes. Talk to the inspector and see exactly what you need. I have seen many times where guys some advise from others and do the job, then find out the inspector will not pass it. It may save a lot of headache and aggravation fro you and your builder. I'm sure the builder will the appreciate advice from the town inspector...

 

[CrashmanS]

People want to avoid the inspector or compliance officers like the plaque. But I've found these people will offer very sound advise and information that will keep you from making a very expensive mistake.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[Randy in Maine]

People want to avoid the inspector or compliance officers like the plaque. But I've found these people will offer very sound advise and information that will keep you from making a very expensive mistake.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

X2. Plus they know likely who does good work and who doesn't. I got very good advice from my local codes guys.

 

[matt_i]

I would also add that the inspection department is not there to "coach" you thru the process either. In my mind, approaching them with the attitude of "I want to build a 40x50, what do I do first?" is not going to get very far. But having done some research, made some sketches and/or drawings and ask specific questions, they will give you the answers. Sometimes its cryptic information like dealing with the Oracle at Delphi, because they will just recite the building code and leave the interpretation of the statement up to you. It can be painful at times but also serves to protect homeowners from unscrupulous builders.

 

[kbs2244]

Any zoning areas involved?

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

People want to avoid the inspector or compliance officers like the plaque. But I've found these people will offer very sound advise and information that will keep you from making a very expensive mistake.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Yes I agree....as a contractor I am constantly dealing with a lot of different towns building departments. Yes there are a couple jerks, however most of them are extremely friendly. Besides you're going to have to take the plans to them before you even start so they can review it before you get a permit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CaptainYARRR]

Any zoning areas involved?

Yes I spoke to zoning and the only limits that seem to be an issue for my design are height. I wanted 16' tall and they can only allow 15'. So it looks like mostly good as far as zoning is concerned.

 

[CaptainYARRR]

I would also add that the inspection department is not there to "coach" you thru the process either. In my mind, approaching them with the attitude of "I want to build a 40x50, what do I do first?" is not going to get very far. But having done some research, made some sketches and/or drawings and ask specific questions, they will give you the answers. Sometimes its cryptic information like dealing with the Oracle at Delphi, because they will just recite the building code and leave the interpretation of the statement up to you. It can be painful at times but also serves to protect homeowners from unscrupulous builders.

I e-mailed the inspection department and he won't give me a straight answer on the foundation. He only says go read the 2012 Building Codes and gave me that link.

So I'm caught between the city that won't give me a direct answer and a builder that is scared of working with the city's parameters.

 

[matt_i]

What is the question regarding the foundation? I didn't see it above?

 

[racinfarmer]

I e-mailed the inspection department and he won't give me a straight answer on the foundation. He only says go read the 2012 Building Codes and gave me that link.

So I'm caught between the city that won't give me a direct answer and a builder that is scared of working with the city's parameters.

Found the reason the builders to asking are not fond of working in the city limits!

 

[brownbagg]

the icc code is very general, it not that bad, it will have the frost freeze foundation but if you are in a area without that its general just two number fives in footer

 

[MrSurly]

This post dovetails what I'm dealing with with the city of Longview, TX.
Let me start with this: Everyone at the city office has been super friendly and all have been eager to help.
I am trying to have a post frame 30 x 40x 14' with 4:12 and a 10' porch (gable extension) built in my back yard.

There is currently ONE post frame builder that has built in the city previously. I have selected a different company that builds them all around but not yet in this city. He gave me a better price, agreed to add certain elements that I preferred for extra strength, said he'd provide the required stamped drawings and, he'd deal with and make the city happy.
Before contracting with him, I went to the city with sketches, site plans, explained my plan, and obtained verbal permission/agreement on some key areas.
1. post frame is OK in the city
2. My proposed site was OK
3. They told me the needed setbacks
4. I'd had the power co. flag their R.O.W. and city OK'd it.
5. Environmental said no drainage issues
6. Zoning had no restriction issues in my area.
7. Zoning said there was no height restriction (within reason ~60' was example)
8. I obtained a 'development' permit in order to begin dirt work.

I contracted to get the pad built. If you have any slope on your site, consider getting the pad built (after confirming the location as thoroughly as possible) in order to get its cost determined. I found the hard way that nobody correctly estimates the dirt needed and you may not know the true cost until it's actually built. Mine went from 1500 est. to nearly 5 grand.
Yeah... I know.
Anyway, on another visit with the city I ran into hurdle #1: The Plans Examiner tells me that the concrete floor would have to be "engineered".
This would be ridiculous as of course, the concrete floor in a post frame is NOT structural and has nothing to do with holding the building up, as would be the case in either stick frame or red iron.
The Plans examiner was intransigent on this point, insisting that 'a slab is a slab is a slab'.... she took this position very nicely and politely, but she wouldn't budge.
I talked (separately) with different inspectors there and they agreed with me about this point. I then was able to escalate the topic to the top building Official (everyone's boss) and HE agreed that she was misinformed and that the concrete did not need to be engineered, in fact, it didn't need to BE, at all. The building, built to engineered, stamped plans, could have a dirt floor.

 

[MrSurly]

The next step; I contracted with the guy on the final design. He sent it to his engineer and his engineer drew it up, added some extra bracing as he saw fit and then, per my request, he included a detail drawing depicting where the concrete slab would be *IF* the customer chose to add future concrete; he noted that
1. the concrete was not part of the structure
2. was not being installed by the builder
3. COULD be added later, with no issues for the structure
4. was not required at any point
5. was not 'engineered', drawn or stamped by him.

This stamped drawing was given to me today.
The next is the contractor went the city today and got the info on a needed surety bond.
The bond will be in place in a few days and then he re-presents to the city and then we'll see what happens next!

Edited

 

[MrSurly]

The city has not stated any limits as to size or height or color or roof pitch or...anything, and I have asked all those questions.
With the actual permit application and drawings in hand, though, all those verbals are near worthless.

 

[ddurrett896]

People want to avoid the inspector or compliance officers like the plaque. But I've found these people will offer very sound advise and information that will keep you from making a very expensive mistake.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

This.

I roughed in plumbing for a laundry room and the inspector recommendation I add a drain in the middle of the floor that empty outside to a cow tounge flange in case the washer floods. So glad I have it!

 

[CaptainYARRR]

What is the question regarding the foundation? I didn't see it above?

My mistake, didn't cover that part fully. Lots of moving parts to this!

The builder I'm talking to is concerned about the slab. The only information that the city will give me is the building codes. Is this building code unusual or is that pretty much standard practice for pouring any slab?

The builder was also curious if they could just build the building without concrete and I do that later? They say that they build the building without pouring any kind of footer. They say the building is self supporting and can handle a 90 MPH gust. Is that BS and would that conform to the building code?

 

[Falcon67]

I e-mailed the inspection department and he won't give me a straight answer on the foundation. He only says go read the 2012 Building Codes and gave me that link.

So I'm caught between the city that won't give me a direct answer and a builder that is scared of working with the city's parameters.

Then research the type of soil in your area and apply the appropriate parameters from the 2012 code. Foundation layouts are based on type of soil and frost parameters - which in your case you can forget frost LOL. Example - here it's expansive clay and the minimums per UBC are 12x12 footer plus bar in the footer, 24" OC across the pad. Inspector asked for 18" OC and we compromised with that.

https://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/Should_I_be_concern_about_foundation_issues_on_-121782

Sales but a good quickie on what to watch for
http://www.permapier.com/about-us/texas-soil-experts/

http://www.eastaustinishome.com/blog/east-austin-home-foundations/

And so on

 

[ard]

My mistake, didn't cover that part fully. Lots of moving parts to this!

The builder I'm talking to is concerned about the slab. The only information that the city will give me is the building codes. Is this building code unusual or is that pretty much standard practice for pouring any slab?

The builder was also curious if they could just build the building without concrete and I do that later? They say that they build the building without pouring any kind of footer. They say the building is self supporting and can handle a 90 MPH gust. Is that BS and would that conform to the building code?

I would never speak to that "builder" again.

Sounds like he (a) doesn't know what he is doing, or (b) wants to cut some corners and wants to move the liability to you or however does the slab later.

 

[GMCGarage]

Hey all,

I'm shopping around to have someone install a 40x50 shop at my new home in Cedar Park TX within the city limits. So far it seems that the couple barn builders that can handle the entire job are afraid of building in city limits.

Cedar Park seems very reasonable on their requirements for things like size and height.

They say that the construction must conform to these standards:
https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/code/362/6072312
2012 International Residential Building Codes

Reading it over, nothing seems too crazy. Am I missing something that is a show stopper? I'm not an engineer so much of it is greek to me. Their main concern seems to be the slab. In these codes is building a wooden building without a slab acceptable and I just pour that later?

Based on the size, and requirements, I would hire a local Architect to do the plans and make sure you are within code. should be no more than 5% of construction cost.

As for builders that dont want to do 'city work' means they dont like to be inspected. Move on to the next.

 

[CaptainYARRR]

Does anyone here know if having a red iron weld up building would meet the Residential Building code if done properly? Or is it simpler just to buy an engineered building?

 

[ard]

What ever you build- "red iron weld up' or 'pole barn' or 'stick build'- has to meet code. Period.

This isnt hard....unless you are scraping the bottom of the 'build barrel' chasing after the wrong stuff.

You dont need to buy an 'engineered building' either. Just build to code.

Lets do this: WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET? 40x50, max height 15 feet..... will it be insulated/sealed? Do you have a preference for stick, pole or iron? If yes, why? What will it be used for?

You seem to be oddly stuck, not sure why....

 

[CaptainYARRR]

I'm just looking for anything that'll get by the city planners, had a few people raise a lot of concerns about building in the city and the city just says it has to pass that code with certain set back requirements. Doesn't sound crazy but I have builders acting like it is. So that's why I'm stuck.

According to the city, my max is 40'x50' with a peak height of 15'. I think I'd like to build to that max. It is in Texas so I think because of termites, I'd like some kind of steel building. Bolt up or weld up does not matter to me. I'd like to have two bays, one for storing my Donzi boat and another for working on cars. Insulated would be very nice as well. Budget is pretty open.

 

[K13]

If you are this vague with the builders it may be that they don't want to work with you no the city. Do some research and have a more defined idea of what you want. "I think I want to build to the max size, with some kind of building, with a pretty open budget" sounds like a nightmare in the making for a builder.

 

[buddyboy]

drive around your city, look for anything that looks like a garage/addition being built.

there should be a building permit within view of the street.

stop your car, get out and if there are people working ask for the boss and see if you can get a phone number or a time and person you could talk to about your project

if no one is working, look at the permit, most of the time the name/phone number of the GC is on it.

knock on the door, introduce yourself and ask the homeowner how they found someone to do the work and what their process was like.

you need an outfit that can DESIGN and BUILD for you. You just describe your wants and needs and budget and they'll tell you the most cost effective way to get it done. whether that's steel, pole, stick, mud, straw or brick.


good luck

 

[ptgarcia]

Based on the size, and requirements, I would hire a local Architect to do the plans and make sure you are within code. should be no more than 5% of construction cost.

I agree. If you know what you're doing, erecting a building is not that big of a deal. If you don't, you could be in for a world of hurt, so to speak.

As for builders that dont want to do 'city work' means they dont like to be inspected. Move on to the next.

Yep, that was my first thought, also.