Building Code Question for 2nd Story I-joist Direction

[ToolsRCool]

In

Negative with TJI's.

Watch this video to understand how to properly use TJI's with balloon framing. How to Frame Floors Like a Pro in Balloon-Frame Construction

Thanks for the clip. Interesting the LVL's they are attaching the joists and hangers to is not cut into the studs. Just shear strength of screws supporting it.

 

[manwithtools]

In

Thanks for the clip. Interesting the LVL's they are attaching the joists and hangers to is not cut into the studs. Just shear strength of screws supporting it.

With the advancement in structural screw technology and testing it eliminates the need to "let -in" the ledger. This saves time (labor) and does not sacrifice insulation space or weaken the stud in any way. Building techniques and codes are changing all the time and keeping up with those changes is important. Doing something because "that's the way we've always done it" does not lend itself to advancing one's knowledge.

That particular YouTube channel is very good about explaining the rationale and logic behind their methods. They frequently have guests such as engineers, architects, manufacturers, etc. to further explain the topic. They are not just idiots with a "channel", I'd recommend watching a few more of their videos. Search their channel for topics related to your build, there is a lot to learn from them.

 

[Hank11]

What you’re doing is a bit out of the ordinary and I hope you’re right about it working out. But I would not count on the city inspectors becoming your engineers. You really do have a slightly complex problem to solve and I suggest you look for an engineer to sign off on it. Getting stopped part half way through will be an unpleasant experience and perhaps expensive to remedy.

 

[ToolsRCool]

I think I should be able to have all aspects worked out for approval ahead of time, and will detail anything obscure when submitting for my building permit. I hope any questions are caught there instead of once the framing is done, as you are saying. At this point, Weyerhaeuser online software sized the I-joists for the span, loading specs, and target OC spacing. Same with sizing of a ridge beam. My local lumber yard ran the OHD header sizing including point loading of one end of the ridge beam.

Looks like the only 2 items remaining is to determine and show best support and attachment method for I-joists into the balloon framed gable end walls, as well as re-run the OHD header sizing to now include the I-joists over it as well. It may drive the OHD header to become a steel I-beam rather than a wood header, we'll see. I still may "let in" the ledger boards which will support the ledger boards. With 2x6 wall framing, there will be plenty of meat available to cut in a 1.5" thick 2x6 or whatever they will rest upon. Will study up on that more.

I appreciate everybody's input on this, some great info and tips came from it, as desired.

 

[billconner]

I was wondering if a let in ribbon plus one across face wouldn't provide enough bearing for the TJIs. On the other hand, you may need fire blocking so could have let in to ribbon and 2x6 blocking flat on top of it.

My experience was a two story garage with stairs against gable wall, balloon framing that wall for obvious reasons, and learning I had to fireblock it. It was also less than 3' from property line so had 5/8 drywall both sides, no openings, and fibreglass to achieve a one hour rating.

 

[manwithtools]

I still may "let in" the ledger boards which will support the ledger boards. With 2x6 wall framing, there will be plenty of meat available to cut in a 1.5" thick 2x6 or whatever they will rest upon.

I was wondering if a let in ribbon plus one across face wouldn't provide enough bearing for the TJIs.

Come on guys! Why would you go to the trouble of "letting in" a framing member if structural screws would do the job? It's a lot of work to create a dado large enough to accommodated the ledger across the entire wall of studs, vs. 2 screws at each stud to hold the ledger.

On the gable walls, your "let-in" would be interfering with the vertical studs that need to transfer the ridge beam load to the garage door header or the foundation on the back wall. Build the gable walls and screw the ledger to it with the proper screws, use the proper hangers for TJI's, done!

I struggle with why anyone would want to make things more complicated than necessary just because...

 

[billconner]

For me, appearance for one. Which is why I like the blocking rather than second board on surface. The two-by on the surface doesn't look as good. I realize appearance and style don't matter to some. And do you propose finding a three-by screwed on to get enough bearing?

I think with 2x6 walls, there will still be plenty of room for the column supporting the ridge beam.

 

[manwithtools]

And do you propose finding a three-by screwed on to get enough bearing?

No, I said a proper ledger and TJI hanger!

Funny how once shown the manufactures specification for bearing, that is now part of the discussion.

Appearance in a framing application...?

I'm beginning to understand what I'm up against here, so sorry for not getting this earlier. It's clear you have outwitted me. My deep apologies to you both.

 

[C-S-H]

Always use platform framing when the floor shear plate is present at that level. Balloon framing is obsolete for good reasons. The second floor shear plate needs to be adequately connected to both the gable end wall shear plate and the roof shear plates. This is easy to do using typical platform framing details.

I am not fond of your proposal to run the second floor load and the roof load to the gable end wall with the garage opening. That puts high demand on the pitiful width of wall and its foundation at that gable end. These are the type of residential structures that fall down in high wind and EQ. A primary goal in wooden structure design is to create high member redundancy in carrying the loads to the ground whenever possible. Let the truss company design your second floor. There will be no ridge beam or TJIs.

 

[billconner]

. Let the truss company design your second floor. There will be no ridge beam or TJIs.

And a lot less useable space.

 

[billconner]

I'm beginning to understand what I'm up against here, so sorry for not getting this earlier. It's clear you have outwitted me. My deep apologies to you both.

My interest and activity in building is purely for the enjoyment. I'd rather build a garage or addition than go on vacation. I don't care if it takes longer to achieve some look that's important to me. And I especially like trying new ways of doing things and seeing what can be discovered. It's as much about the journey as the destination.

 

[ToolsRCool]

I do like the design challenge of trying to get what I want. Trusses would be way easier and faster, but I do think due to their angle and vertical supports would chop into the total amount of usable attic space as well, plus I don't know if they can incorporate dormers as well. I really need to ask them vs guess, you're right. I don't have a large building like others have, so that forces me to try and take advantage of nearly every useful inch of volume I can. She's 26' wide by 24' deep, and that's it. Example on space utilization, I'll likely have 10' wall racking with a rolling library ladder.

It will be a lot of load over the large garage door opening, and I don't yet want to change to two single doors instead. I think if I simply change the header over the large roll up door to be a steel I-beam, it can take whatever floor, roof, and wall loads I put atop of it. Just annoying to fasten wood to.

This will not be a living space ordeal, so fire-blocking won't apply, I think.......

I still do appreciate all of the input from various angles and perspectives, I published this because I wanted to hear about good ideas, and things I have not considered. It is not a fight, battle of wits, and nobody is really right or wrong. We all have different experiences.

 

[C-S-H]

Trusses would be way easier and faster, but I do think due to their angle and vertical supports would chop into the total amount of usable attic space as well, plus I don't know if they can incorporate dormers as well.

The trusses would be at the floor joist level, plus rafters and dormer studs. No space lost.

It will be a lot of load over the large garage door opening, and I don't yet want to change to two single doors instead. I think if I simply change the header over the large roll up door to be a steel I-beam, it can take whatever floor, roof, and wall loads I put atop of it. Just annoying to fasten wood to.

The header is easy to design. It is the lateral load resisting system, and stability, that is the design challenge.

This will not be a living space ordeal, so fire-blocking won't apply, I think.......

But they are needed for shear plate connectivity, stability of studs, attachment of wall board, etc. in balloon framing.