Building garage - NEED ADVICE!

[vjarv]

Hello!
Long time lurker, first time poster. We are just starting to build a detached garage, 32x50. Had the earth work done ($$yikes) and concrete just got poured this week. Problem is…we do not have any idea what this build is going to cost (please, don’t come at me, I am completely aware that this is insane!) The builder is my SO’s childhood ‘buddy’ so price hasn’t really been discussed.
I’ve got so many questions, I don’t know where to begin. So I’ll just start.
For reference, we live in Mn (cold) we plan to heat and cool this garage, we need it for storage (vehicles and toys) and want an area for projects (no one is a woodworker, though).
1. Best type of insulation - do we spring for spray foam and is that the walls and ceiling? Is vapor barrier not needed if we go that route?
2. Garage door - we went with one 16’…mistake? Is 2 better? Either way, which brand is reasonable and will be reliable, what R-value should I be looking for?
Brand of garage door opener?
3. Lighting- What type and how many am I looking at for a garage this size? Fluorescent? LED? Any advice here would be appreciated!
4. Electrical - I’m guessing throw in more outlets than I could image ever needing. lol Any specific advice here is welcomed.
5. Organization - This is a big one for us! We have a LOT of **** that needs to get organized in this garage. Some stuff can be left in totes on nice, heavy-duty matching racks. A lot of stuff needs to come OUT of totes and be put into storage lockers/cabinets, etc. so it’s easily accessible and so I don’t break my back lifting a tote every time I need the WD-40! I’ve been looking at NewAge Pro as a possibility. I like the pricing of the Bold line, but it doesn’t sound like it’ll be sturdy enough for the amount of **** I have. We have tote after tote of fluids, sprays, car detailers, etc. then we currently have our tools just lying on shelving (which we need to get more of in the future). Recommendations on garage storage units/set-ups?
Does anyone have the NewAge (VersaRac, or similar) overhead storage? Like it? Suggestions on placement?
Suggestions on heavy-duty storage racks (for totes, etc)?
6. Window selection - SO said NO windows, afraid of looky-loo’s peering in at his Corvette. We live out in the country so I think we are ok throwing a few windows into this large cave. Our home currently has white JeldWen sliders (not our choice) but we would like to try get a cohesive look.
Go w/JeldWen or other suggestions? How about size/placement? He doesn’t want them low where anyone can see in. I don’t want such small ones that it looks ridiculous on a 32x50 building.
7. Any advice on slat wall brands (i.e. Proslat?) I am thinking we would put this on one wall. I honestly know NOTHING about it. I want something decent that won’t break when trying to install or use, has good amount of accessories and reasonably priced.
As far as install…do you typically put it in one area, up to the ceiling or no? What all can you hang on this stuff? We have all the typical shovels, garden tools, hoses, backpack blower, brooms, etc. but also some sports equipment (tennis racquets, helmets, whatnot). But then we also have (and want/need to get more) tools so do we also put an area of slat wall near the large organization unit, so it’s handy for working on projects?

I know, I know….this is WAY too much, I apologize in advance. You guys/gals just really seem to know your garages, so I figured this would be a safe place to come.
I’ll include a rough sketch of garage and my vehicles (which are all to scale). Maybe you will see something super obvious that I’m not aware of, like clearance needed for something, etc.
Any questions answered are greatly appreciated. Pics of examples are awesome too!

To try clarify a bit of my initial thoughts on layout…
Garage is 32x50:
Pickup truck and corvette with be parked next to each other at the front of the garage.
Left side wall - several heavy-duty storage shelving units. Possible overhead storage unit(s) somewhere?
Right side wall - man door then maybe start slat wall for hanging sh*t, run it until 2nd man door (about 30’)?? Is that excessive, reasonable?
‘L’ shaped work space area would begin past second man door.
Back wall - contain the majority of the storage/organization cabinets and work bench. Not sure on layout.
Disregard the crappy staircase in left, rear corner. We contemplated doing room in attic but I think it would be WAY too expensive, given the size of the garage.

Thank you!!

 

[Adaylate]

How tall are your walls?
What degree of finish, will it be rocked and painted?
What roofing material?
If this is a turn key, finished building, at 1600 square feet I would ask the builder how much per square ft a building like this typically costs.
$100. per square ft x 1600= $160k

Good luck!

 

[vjarv]

10’ walls, yes - rocked and painted, and shingles to match the house are from Menards - Atlas Castlebrook architectural shingle @ $33 a bundle.
Wow…that price is shocking! We do have the ability to do some things ourselves (minimal, to be honest) but we know some people who might be willing to help out to bring the cost down.
Thanks for your reply!

 

[manwithtools]

Welcome to Garage Journal! Your post asks a lot of questions that probably should have been asked sooner, but I think you know that. I'll try to answer a few of them, I'm sure others will chime in.

Costs, if you can hold it to $100 a sq ft for turn key, I'll be surprised. Prices have gone absolutely nuts. I'm just getting ready to start my build. I think I'll be around $85 a sq ft and I'll be doing quite a bit my self. Sounds like a nice shop space.

Insulation - Spray foam - closed cell will not require a vapor barrier, open cell will. Closed is more expensive and open cell takes more inches of thickness to match closed cell performance.

Garage doors - I think you'll want more than one door or you will play Tetris with vehicles and toys every time you need to get something in or out. Also if you place another door on the opposite wall, you will get a nice cross ventilation in the warmer months.

Windows - A building that big, I'd want natural light, so yes to windows. Get some graph paper and draw your building walls to scale, then you can play around with window sizes to see what might be the best fit.

Will let others comment further.

 

[vjarv]

Thanks for the welcome!
I absolutely understand your comment about these questions being asked now…not ideal whatsoever. I had thought this was going to be my SO’s project, so I just let him run with it. Turns out, he doesn’t like research! Lol
I inquired about 2 doors and he felt that center ‘sideroom’ area between the two often gets hit when backing up or whatever, so felt one wider door was better. I can definitely see both sides of it. I wondered about the possible ‘Tetris’ aspect of it to, honestly. There will be a rider, motorcycle, snowmobiles, wheeler. Lots of moving around. Once concrete has been poured, is it too late to change from 1 door to 2?

Thanks much for your reply!

 

[65ranchero]

I think 2 garage doors are better, make sure the width of the doors (most likely 9') will fit a normal sized truck without folding mirrors.
and check height requirements.
And FWIW there may be less of heat loss with only 9' door open vs. a 16'

 

[manwithtools]

Thanks for the welcome!
I absolutely understand your comment about these questions being asked now…not ideal whatsoever. I had thought this was going to be my SO’s project, so I just let him run with it. Turns out, he doesn’t like research! Lol
I inquired about 2 doors and he felt that center ‘sideroom’ area between the two often gets hit when backing up or whatever, so felt one wider door was better. I can definitely see both sides of it. I wondered about the possible ‘Tetris’ aspect of it to, honestly. There will be a rider, motorcycle, snowmobiles, wheeler. Lots of moving around. Once concrete has been poured, is it too late to change from 1 door to 2?

Thanks much for your reply!

I'm not suggesting changing the one large door to two smaller ones, I'm suggesting adding a second door. Even if it has to go on another wall. Adding a door later will be a challenge and expensive.

 

[bluedog225]

Or stop. Stop the project. Let the guy go work on another project. Make all your decisions. Price it out. Then start again.

Alternatively, price it out through getting it completely dried in. That is the exterior is done done. Then you can struggle with the rest of it as money and time permit.

 

[manwithtools]

Or stop. Stop the project. Let the guy go work on another project. Make all your decisions. Price it out. Then start again.

This is truly very good advise. There's lot's of good information available here that could avoid costly decisions that have to made "right now".

 

[Pennsylvania 39]

If the slab is already poured I guess there won't be any floor drains

 

[mepstein]

I would invite your builder over for a working luch, sit down with a pad of paper and pen, write out all your thoughts and questions and start talking with him. Even if you don’t have every detail worked out, you should be able to sketch out a lot of what you want, expect and a good ballpark for cost. The further you go with the build, the harder it is to change direction or budget the project. Personally, I’d be calling him today for a sit down on Monday.
Hey Mr Builder friend. I have a couple questions that I absolutely want to discuss with you before we do anything else on the build. Can you come over on Monday around 11. We’ll grab some sandwiches and sit down for 15-20 minutes.
It might take you two hours but you want to get him over, sit him down and talk big picture and pricing.
Make sure your SO is there and you and the so have talked about the budget, questions, wants and needs ahead of time. The Titanic wouldn’t have hit the iceberg if they knew about it ahead of time.

 

[billconner]

No attic, correct?

Based on what you've shared and it seeming you are hiring most work done vs diy, could be over $100/sq ft. Better to plan and scale back now rather than later.

 

[Adaylate]

Lots of good advice so far. I threw the $100 per square ft out there as a round number for the op to figure with.
For a 1600 square ft building, turn key in my area, he could could see 200k in the rear view mirror.

I'm building a 2500 square ft shouse now and have just over $100 k in the shell. This with a lot of diy.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Or stop. Stop the project. Let the guy go work on another project. Make all your decisions. Price it out. Then start again.

Alternatively, price it out through getting it completely dried in. That is the exterior is done done. Then you can struggle with the rest of it as money and time permit.

Very good advice.

If you don't get a handle on the project now, it will either cost way more than you ever imagined or won't get finished when the SO's contractor buddy wants to start getting paid in installments

 

[Stuart in MN]

As for lighting, go to the electrical section of the forum and look at the sticky notes at the top of the page about 'the best light fixture ever' and 'light fixture layouts', there's a lot of good advice in there. 4' LED strip fixtures are probably the best choice, these days they're widely available at the big box stores or online, and are pretty inexpensive. There are various light fixture layouts in the other thread, chances are there's one that will be pretty similar to your garage. Otherwise there are a number of calculators online where you can plug in the dimensions of the room, the amount of light you want in foot-candles, and they'll pop out a suggested layout.

 

[Joemctag]

FWIW, it seems to me that most people on this forum say they’re glad they went with one 16’ door or wish they did. It SEEMS that ( 2 ) 9’ doors make more sense, but when you have to live with it every day, one 16 footer is the way to go. Don’t think you’ll regret it. And good luck with everything else!

 

[CraigStu]

A few of your Qs. 120V outlets every 6ft at 4ft off the floor so they are above toolboxes workbenches and below wall cabinets. Figure where power will come into the building so you know about where your circuit breaker box will be. Think hard about things like air compressors, mini-splits, welders etc that will need 240V. Lighting probably the 4ft LEDs are the best bang for the $ so use lots of them. Also they use a LOT less current so extra lights almost just involve the initial cost. Put half on one switch and half on another, and maybe 2 on a 3rd switch. The two go centered on the 32 dimension and maybe 25-30ft apart on the 50 dimension. They will do a great job when you want to go there to grab some small item and don't need full shop light. You could also put them on a motion sensor as a handy light that doubles as a crude warning system. Remember electrical is easy to do before drywall so go extra on any questions. I HATE double doors but they are the 8ft wide type. For you, I'd look at the $ comparison between a single 20ft door vs two 10-12ft doors. Windows, YES at least a few. Will there be a somewhat central, most often in use, workbench on a wall. Maybe I am weird but I just really like being able to look out while at my workbench. My window looks out over our driveway so no grand view of a mountain and a lake but it is nice especially when I hear a car or truck. You can put windows in the top panel of a garage door which, depending on door height, will be high enough that casual looks won't be able to see inside but the light is really nice. BTW, put in the windows you think look good, go to L or HD and get that sticky back semi-clear plastic that makes the window look like it has frozen ice on it. Maybe just on the lower half. Bingo light and no looky-loos. Overall I like bluedog's idea. Get it dried in and hit pause. You need to make the big decisions on doors, windows, etc now for that to happen. But the rest can wait. Maybe do electrical, but no drywall, so you can work in there and get a feel for how everything fits. Then Qs about slat wall, shelves etc will be a lot easier.

 

[manwithtools]

Paragraph's?

 

[billconner]

FWIW, it seems to me that most people on this forum say they’re glad they went with one 16’ door or wish they did. It SEEMS that ( 2 ) 9’ doors make more sense, but when you have to live with it every day, one 16 footer is the way to go. Don’t think you’ll regret it. And good luck with everything else!

I like my two 10' x 8' overhead doors.

 

[billconner]

Many if not most folk here think of their garage as an auto repair shop with tool cabinets, work benches, some with lifts, and much more. Mine is for storing cars snow free and garden tools. Only you know what you expect in yours but it affects a lot of design choices like lighting and electrical, plumbing, height, etc. Just need to be clear about "projects".

 

[NUTTSGT]

I like my two 10' x 8' overhead doors.

I like my 9x8 doors as well. Space between them helps kei the distance between the vehicles inside.

 

[billconner]

I like my 9x8 doors as well. Space between them helps kei the distance between the vehicles inside.

Yeah, I wanted to be able to open car doors without concern of hitting the other car. I have 2' between them.

 

[CraigStu]

Yeah, but have you backed a trailer into a 9ft wide door?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Yeah, but have you backed a trailer into a 9ft wide door?

I had brought my open trailer in a couple of times. Truly a PITA, however, the garage wasn't built for the trailer. I just replaced what was there and matched the door on the addition to them as well.

If I was building a shop that was going include trailer storage, it would definitely have a wider door than that.

 

[Skyman]

I'm presently living with one 16-foot door, and one 8-foot door. I wish the 16-footer was at least 18 feet, and the 8-footer was at least 9 feet. Ideally, they'd be 20 and 10.

I can't get my full-size pickup through the 8-foot door without folding in one of the mirrors. Pulling two modest-sized cars in straight, or even angled, through the 16-footer places the cars too close together to fully open the cars' doors.

I didn't design the garage. It was here when we bought the place. If I were to design my own, bigger doors would be a requirement.

 

[manwithtools]

Yeah, but have you backed a trailer into a 9ft wide door?

That's why I'm putting 3 - 10' x10' doors in my new build. Oh, and an 8' x 8' int he back wall to get yard equipment in and out easily.

 

[pembol]

Not to pile on - but this is absolutely nuts to start a project of this magnitude without a complete plan, budget and a couple of bids. You need to put the breaks on this right now, spend the winter coming up with these things and then restart next year. As others have mentioned, this is likely to be at least $100/ sq ft, so $160K, and it is not going to go well without a plan.

 

[kwb]

Wide doors are good.

I would offset the door to one side. It is on a gable end so it would be easy to add a single wide door later if your use changes. This also lets you setup one side more as the "working" side and the other as parking/storage.

Scissor Trusses for Height/Volume if you aren't going to have a storage area above. If things change and you need to put a tall toy inside, the non-load bearing benefit of the gable end makes it possible to get a 12' tall door with 10' walls. It won't fit big 5th wheel trailer but most tow behind will go in. This would also let you put a small storage space into the peak area in the back of the building.

I don't have windows in my shop, I go back and forth on if I should have put a few in. If it is a nice day out I just open the big door. When I look at my walls inside - there really isn't a good place for them to be either. If you do decide to add them, put them in high, don't have them be too tall, and keep as much wall as you can below them

I am not a fan of adding a door for yard equipment - simply because the cost of the space doesn't warrant keeping that stuff in this class of space. A simple shed keeps that stuff secured and out of the elements.

If you are running water to this building for a sink a urinal might be worth a look. Depends on the setting, ease to tie to house sewer/septic, or fudging in a cheater drainage system.

 

[65ranchero]

Also add in the plan where the roof slopes down, will snow drop down in front of the doors for when it sheds off the roof.
Mine does, but I'm Ok with that because the first piece of equipment out is the UTV snow blower.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Ask your husband if he is willing to lose the friendship of his childhood buddy when the cost of this project gets out of control.

 

[racecougar]

If you're able to change things like overhead door widths at this point, I'll venture a guess that we're building directly on a slab (no stem wall)?

Agreed that it's nuts to have already poured the slab (and hopefully some sort of foundation or frost protection) without a complete building plan. Are permits not required in MN?

 

[vjarv]

If the slab is already poured I guess there won't be any floor drains

We actually did have a drain put in.

 

[vjarv]

If you're able to change things like overhead door widths at this point, I'll venture a guess that we're building directly on a slab (no stem wall)?

Agreed that it's nuts to have already poured the slab (and hopefully some sort of foundation or frost protection) without a complete building plan. Are permits not required in MN?

We live in a township where only a basic building permit is required.

 

[dcg9381]

Yeah, but have you backed a trailer into a 9ft wide door?

I've got an 8.5' x 16' trailer. Gotta be careful with a 9 ft door.

For "residential" garages I always go with an 8' door height. Modern trucks "barely" fit in a 7' high door. My '81 Toyota wouldn't go in a 7' high garage entry after a lift and 35" tires.

For "shop" doors, 10' wide minimum. If you've got the height, with a 14' high door, if it goes down the road, it goes in the shop...

Roll up doors ****. Biggest mistake I made on the shop.

1. Best type of insulation - do we spring for spray foam and is that the walls and ceiling? Is vapor barrier not needed if we go that route?

IMHO, spray foam is the best insulation you can buy. Around here, it's a swing of about 300% over traditional bat insulation. My home has a standard vapor barrier on the outside and spray foam inside the walls. Your attic becomes heated/cooled space with spray foam, big advantage if your air handler is in the attic.

My shop (steel) has no vapor barrier, straight spray foam to walls and roof. Mini-splits for heat/cooling.

Closed cell is much more dense, more expensive. You use it where you have limited space. Otherwise use open cell.

There are great "hybrid" insulation solutions, IE, 1" of closed cell to seal the envelope and then combination of traditional insulation.

 

[JimH74]

I have an 18 ft door and a 12 ft. Love em.

 

[racecougar]

We live in a township where only a basic building permit is required.

Shocked that the AHJ didn't require a plan in order to issue the permit.

So is this on a slab without a stem wall? Does it have a foundation or thickened edge?

 

[vjarv]

I've got an 8.5' x 16' trailer. Gotta be careful with a 9 ft door.

For "residential" garages I always go with an 8' door height. Modern trucks "barely" fit in a 7' high door. My '81 Toyota wouldn't go in a 7' high garage entry after a lift and 35" tires.

For "shop" doors, 10' wide minimum. If you've got the height, with a 14' high door, if it goes down the road, it goes in the shop...

Roll up doors ****. Biggest mistake I made on the shop.


IMHO, spray foam is the best insulation you can buy. Around here, it's a swing of about 300% over traditional bat insulation. My home has a standard vapor barrier on the outside and spray foam inside the walls. Your attic becomes heated/cooled space with spray foam, big advantage if your air handler is in the attic.

My shop (steel) has no vapor barrier, straight spray foam to walls and roof. Mini-splits for heat/cooling.

Closed cell is much more dense, more expensive. You use it where you have limited space. Otherwise use open cell.

There are great "hybrid" insulation solutions, IE, 1" of closed cell to seal the envelope and then combination of traditional insulation.

Thanks so much for your input. Very helpful!

 

[vjarv]

Also add in the plan where the roof slopes down, will snow drop down in front of the doors for when it sheds off the roof.
Mine does, but I'm Ok with that because the first piece of equipment out is the UTV snow blower.

Thought of that one….we have the garage door on the gable end, so we should be good.

Thanks!

 

[vjarv]

Or stop. Stop the project. Let the guy go work on another project. Make all your decisions. Price it out. Then start again.

Alternatively, price it out through getting it completely dried in. That is the exterior is done done. Then you can struggle with the rest of it as money and time permit.

They are not currently working on it. Builder has a few projects going on, we have time to evaluate/get advice, make decisions and move forward.
Thank you for your advice.

 

[vjarv]

I have an 18 ft door and a 12 ft. Love em.

Sounds awesome!!