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Building inspection bungle

The Money Pit

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Dec 6, 2005
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137
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Virginia
I had my final inspection today. There were several issues. The grade was too high on the outside. Not sure how they could tell that since it's too close to tell by just looking at it. The biggest thing is they said I needed a fire rated door where you can go to the "finished storage" space above the garage. I've got a door there now but it's an INTERIOR door that is not fire rated. They say since it's "finished occupiable" space there needes to be a fire rated door. The same inspector who did the final also did the final electrical who walked through that exact door several times and said NOTHING about needing a fire rated door along with 6 other inspectors who came for various other inspections months ago. The county I live in can't seem to get their regulations and codes straight at MY expense. I'm guessing that fire rated doors are larger than the one I have there now which would mean I would have to re-frame the wall, move the electrical switches and thermostat which would also mean more inspections and a lot more money. One inspector will tell you one thing then another will tell you something totally different. What were the other inspections for anyhow if they couldn't catch somthing that needed to be fixed before the final? I guess it depends on which inspector you get at the time... I'm a little more than frustrated if you can't tell. Now I've got to put something in writng, submit it to the building inspection administrator and see if they will make an exception.
 
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Defender Chassis

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Williamstown, WV
The door size should be fine. "Fire Rated" has to do with construction and not size.

I feel for you on these kinda issues. I deal with it everyday as it is what I do for a living. The inspectors will tell you that it is not their responsibility but yours. Just because they missed it does not relieve you of the responsibility to meet the applicable code.

I have a better one for you. I deal with a govering body that made a comment on a code review that they DISCOURAGE the use of XYZ. The applicable code allows it under certain conditions. I met those conditions on a project but was still dinged for it. Cost me over $5k to tear out and replace. If they do not want people to use xyz then the should not say discourage.

OK, Im done venting.
 

Bull

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MA
This is what makes the process annoying at best and the officials worthy of your hatred. Inefficient, contradictory, capricious, mechanically cold is how I would describe them in my opinion. On my final, the inspector noted items that had been present before, which she must have seen but said nothing about at that time. Thankfully, she did not fail me for these new observations of hers, just noted on the paperwork that they needed to be addressed. If she had failed me for what had been there before and which she had said nothing about, I would have gone ape.

My town has two building inspectors. I called one over to look at something part way into the build...he's the "junior" member of the team but still an inspector and still paid for by my tax dollars. He told me that what I was asking about was fine as far as he was concerned, but that I had better check with the woman (who is the chief) to be sure, since she might not agree. Thing is, she was on vacation. I asked him why I'd have to wait for her to come back from vacation and approve something I was waiting on when he was standing right there in front of me as a paid official of the town!

I disliked the whole process. If inspections weren't run like they were a big cluster-f monkey show, then I'd be able to appreciate that they are designed to keep people safe.
 

slicktoptt

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Nov 26, 2007
Messages
228
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North Florida
Building a house is one the most stressful things you can do in life. What I leared about inspectors is that regardless of it being their job they often get tunnel vision and don't see every little detail of the house in one visit. And what may seem obvious to you may not be as obvious to them.

Perhaps that door was on a room that was not finished in the several times he and others saw it before. Maybe they thought the room was going to remain unfinished and that a fire rated door was not necessary until they saw the room finally finished and useable as living space (not that you would use it that way, but it could be).

I failed my final because the window in front of my claw footed tub was not tempered. Inspector had seen it several times but not with the tub in front of it until the final. We installed the tub as one of the very last items so it would not get damaged. Sure he should have looked at the plans and the builder should have been more aware. **** happens and there's not much you can do about it.

What you have listed seems pretty minor. A fire rated door is a simple fix...it's just a solid door that withstands a certain temperature for a certain time. Same size as the one you have in there. Grading may be too high right at the slab of the house. Has to be so many inches from the walls of the house and then drop off by so many inches as you get further from the house. Sometimes you can eyeball at the slab and know it's too high.

It's a wonder I did not make the evening news for taking out inspectors, contractors, local electric company, cable company and anyone who looked at me funny while I was building my house. I would only wish that kind of stress on my worst enemies.
 

GeorgiaHybrid

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Sep 9, 2008
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Extreme NW Georgia
I feel lucky compared to what you guys are going thru. No permit required for building, the septic system required a perk test and then a quick lookover (5 minutes). The electrical was looked at by the power company and they only inspected the load center.

My big problem was that I had two 200 amp load centers side by side and he charged me an extra $15.00 to inspect the second one. He wanted to charge the full $45.00 inspection fee but I told him if that was the way he wanted to play, he could come back the next day and spend his time and gas money to inspect the second one.

He decided that $15.00 was OK for it....

We even moved into the house while it was under a constrution loan and closed on the final mortgage 5 months later...:)
 

brownbagg

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Mar 20, 2006
Messages
5,208
fire rated doors are in the fire code and is very common of garages attach to living area. Its not the code enforcer job to educate you on building code. The contractor is suppose to be knowelgable in this, even if its you. These are minimum codes so you can exspect what some people try to get away with. just bite the bullet and buy another door. It be a metal door.
 

mikeyr

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Santa Barbara, CA
I had issues during my garage build with the inspectors but luckily they were all during the build and nothing major, just the kind of things "fix that before I come back" and most were fixed before he even left the property, that easy.

I did have one issue with the electrical since my electrician never connected the ufer ground to the panel and I was worried about it as I noticed it late in the construction and it was going to require extra work (the sub panel was already in and signed off but the city wanted a ufer ground when I poured the slab), I had other issues that I was very concerned about including a section of the roof that was "forgotten about" the roofer never came back to finish that section.

I stressed and stressed for days prepping for the final. Day of the final its pouring down rain, inspector drives up the driveway, flashes his lights, I go out and he asks "is it all ready to go ?", I say yes and he gets out and runs into the garage, spends less than 1 minute in the garage and signs off the permit and runs back to his car. He never looked outside, he never checked anything, just signed it and off he went. Of course this is the same inspector that 2 weeks earlier had told me I was building a awfully nice garage for my cars but I still expected him to look around a second time.
 
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The Money Pit

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Virginia
My issue is the inconsistency with the inspectors and the permits office. EVERY inspector (other than this last one) has seen and known it was additional space we could use as storage or watch tv in etc. NOT live in. They made it perfectly clear that by no means could anyone live in that room above the garage. NOW it's an issue and is concidedred "occupiable finished" space. They need to stick to one thing and stay with it rather than change it at the VERY LAST INSPECTION. NOTHING had been changed as far as the permits had gone since August 2005. That should be plenty of time to let me know if I needed to do somthing different to the garage. IE install a fire rated door. That's what burns me up. And no, the room had been sheetrocked, painted, had the HVAC and carpet installed for over a year and it was the last time the same inspector walked up there to do the final electrical inspection.

I'm going to check and see how much fire rated doors are and make sure they can be put in the same opening without tearing everything all to hell and then I'll write a letter to the building inspection administrator to appeal the fire door rejection.
 

slicktoptt

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North Florida
Not trying to take the inspectors side but you are fighting over something trivial that could save a life or property. A year between when you hung the door and final inspection is a really long time (at least where I'm from). Maybe the inspector never touched the door to make sure it was a fire rated door on the previous trips...but at the final he did. Maybe he thought you got the wrong door and were going to replace it before final (a lot can happen in a year). At the end of the day it's called a final inspection to make sure things like this get caught. I know it ***** but you are likely to lose your appeal if the space is occupiable and it's only going to cost maybe $200 to remedy. (Not sure how fancy your interior doors are)
 

InPrimer

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Jul 10, 2007
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lake Havasu AZ
a thought, you can find metal doors with a slight dent& scratch section at your local lumber yard, all hinges are in the same place , I R&R a wood door for a steel door for $10.00 take a look
 

Newbeme

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Jul 11, 2006
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I've been lurking for quite awhile, but this one touched a nerve so I figured I start posting.

I feel for you. I'm in the process of adding 20x24 onto my 24x24 detached garage and I'm having a blast dealing with the inspector. Our city just went to a code with in this year and they are learning it as they go. It started off that I had to have a wall between the two. Then it was I could leave an opening, but it couldn't be big enough to drive a vehicle through. Then it had to be a man door with a fire proof rating and a fire resistant wall sheet rocked on one side. Now the wall has to be sheet rocked on both sides. At this point I said "if I was adding this size room addition to my house, say to the front room, would I have to do all this ?, and the answer was no. What the heck?! I figure a couple months down the road after it is inspected I'll "remodel" the garage the way I want it to be. I love this figure it out as we go at MY expense concept. They called growing pains at City Hall.
 

brownbagg

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Mar 20, 2006
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inspectors are people that cant get a job at wally world so somebody brother in law hires him as an inspector. They have no exprience or training and told to follow a book. Then they give them a badge to make them feel important. But we do need codes, there are the minimum and they are written down. I have myself fought the inspection office and won. But you have to know the codes
 

mikeyr

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Santa Barbara, CA
It started off that I had to have a wall between the two. Then it was I could leave an opening, but it couldn't be big enough to drive a vehicle through.

Wow, sounds like my town where I went through the same thing when I added my 22x24 extension to my existing garage. I wanted one big room (one big garage) but the city said I could not. My zoning said I could have a 500 sq. ft. garage AND a 500 sq. ft. workshop but they could be combined. What they meant by combined is that I could not drive my car from one to the other so a wall had to put up between the two. I chose a 4ft. wall with a shelf on it that way all the structural work of the back wall removal was done and inspected. That shelf, my wife called it a bar and kept wanting to put bar stools next to it, was awfully easy to remove but it met the rules that I could drive from one to the other.

At least they did not make me have sheetrock floor-to-ceiling as that would have meant me doing structural work after the inspector left.
 

W-Cummins

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Jan 9, 2006
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Iowa
Well if you need a fire door you will need to replace the whole door and jam as there are made as a fire rated assembly, and they will be stamped as such. The normal rating required is 20 min, for an opening in an one hour wall. They make wooden as well as steel 20 min rated doors. It could be that the door appeared to be rated but when he looked for the tag there wasn't one so it failed inspection... BTW my 1hr rated door/s cost over $1k and that didn't include the 2, $75 to $200 each, UL approved door closers. So your getting off cheap yours will probably only cost $200 or so. William.....
 

porschedude996TT

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Oct 28, 2007
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2,384
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Santa Maria, California
I too get upset with building inspectors, but I am an aerospace designer and a design checker. Which means that I check other engineer’s designs. You would not believe the redlines that I make on some of these engineer’s drawings. Typically they go thru check 3 to 4 times because there is so much wrong with them. I feel for the inspectors in some cases because these buildings are sometimes have an overwhelming amount of things to see and remember and they are only human. I can see when he is called out for an electrical inspection that he could be concentrating on just the electrical and that they might not see that the door was not fire rated. It is a process and each building is different and the levels of experience are different. Sometimes when you are focused in so close to one thing you see nothing else.
 

4-RunDog

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Mar 12, 2009
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55
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Oregon City
The problem I have ran into is the inspectors interpitation of the codes. Or the old "as a rule of thumb" stuff thats not written anywere. The reason for the inspectors is to bring revenue to the city or county. I think doing things properly is important but they can get a little carried away. Saftey is important so I try to play by the rules.
 

4-RunDog

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Mar 12, 2009
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Oregon City
I wanted to add, I have a relative that is an inspector. Very freindly easy to work with guy. You should hear some of the stories he has told. You would be amazed at the lengths people go to to not do things the right way. At a rental the other day he pointed out the railing on the second floor deck was only held in with a couple small finish nails from the outside. If a kid fell into it they could go rite on thru. It looked good but could not have been more wrong.
 
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The Money Pit

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Virginia
I went to Lowes and they have a steel exterior door for about $170. I would have to take down the old door, install the new one, caulk and paint. I will have to check with an inspector to make sure it's ok to use since it doesn't actually say "fire rated" on the door.

It's a catch 22. If I comply and install the new door, then they can say I willingly admit it's occupiable space (which it isn't) and could make me put 5/8" sheetrock along the wall the door is on AND have me tear out all the flex for the HVAC downstairs. Then they can tax me on ALL the space and not just the square footage for the footprint of the garage. They are treating it like it's a seperate residence. They are saying it's liveable space above the garage and the garage is attached to that liveable space. That's not what it says on my building permit or anywhere in the paperwork. They are trying to change it from "storage space" to "occupiable space" even though I did not apply for an occupiable permit. Just because it has all the characteristics of liveable space doesn't mean that's what it's being used for. It's just a nice area above the garage. No one is living or going to live up there. If I do contest it and they change their mind so I don't have to replace the door, then my taxes won't go through the roof. It's just screwed up any way you look at it.
 
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tcianci

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Walpole, Ma
Well as you guys already know, I'm a remodeler in MA and if I didn't chuckle at what you are all going through, I would cry. With the economy being what it is, building departments are big revenue generators for towns. I just contracted to build a pool cabana in a town near me... The pool company was providing the slab for the building and they submitted plans for the whole project and received a building permit. Now when you apply for a permit for a project, you need to break down the project cost by subcontract labor as well, so the pool company included figures for the plumbing and electrical work.
Now the plumber and electrician still need to apply for and pay for their own respective permits on top of the general building permit. And I needed to apply for a permit to build the cabana. When I submitted my documentation for my permit, they told me they couldn't process the permit without the plumbing and electrical costs in my figures. I explained that I was only hired to build the box and was not the general contractor..no dice... I had to add the cost of plumbing and electrical to my permit as well, it doubled the permit cost!
Then I resubmitted the documents at which point they told me that I had to go through the sewer department and then the board of health. So off I go the water and sewer department, they hand me more forms because the pool cabana has a bathroom and they wanted engineered drawings of the sewer and the tie in. I explained again that there was a plumber on the job not associated with me in any way and that he had a permit, and the underground inspection was complete and the trench had been backfilled. They went nuts, at which point I called the plumber and he came to the sewer department and they read him the riot act even though the sewer connection was just into an existing sewer in the main house. The sewer official backed down some when he realized that the plumber did have permits and had the work inspected and he told the plumber that the plumbing inspector should have known that they needed a sewer permit.
Well since the plumber had the permit he needed and I didn't...I had to fork over another 300 bucks for the sewer permit and the plumber had to provide an as-built to the sewer department. I came back with the completed permit application and a check for 300.00 and they told me "we can't take your check, we're not bonded to accept money". So I had to drive across town to the town cashiers office and pay the bill there. ( Funny, the building department which is 6 feet from the sewer department accepts checks all the time, hmmmm). I return with the receipt and they tell me that they can't even enter my application in to the computer because the plumber hasn't provided his drawing!
Finally I do get a sewer permit and then I need to go to the board of health where they inform me that if I was going to renovate any existing exterior walls, I would need a signed affidavit from a certified pest inspector because I may displace rats into other folks homes. Thankfully, I wasn't.
So, off I go to the building department with my paperwork and a check for 50 bucks (the APPLICATION fee, not the permit fee) where they tell me that they can accept my paperwork and the check but it will take at least another week because the secretary was on vacation!
A week later, I get a call from the secretary because I don't have a plot plan. I explained that they have it on file from the original application by the pool company. She was surprised but I told her that the inspector had actually pulled the plot plan and showed it to me when I originally came up to talk to him about the project a month before. But she said that she needed to have a separate one from me showing the location of the cabana. I explained that the pool company located the cabana and provided the slab so how was it my problem? Stupid question, so I call the pool company, they provide me with a drawing showing the pool cabana location and then 3 days and another 200 bucks later, I get a permit. Total elapsed time: 1 month! Total hours on my part: about 14
Total trips to the building dept.:7 Total cost $550.00 for a 10x14 building!!!!!
Ant to top it all off, when I finally did get everything straightened out, the inspector looked at me with a big smirk on his face and said "all this for a lousy pool house."

Thanks for letting me vent
 
Last edited:

GearBeer

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Jun 12, 2009
Messages
252
MP, I'd go ahead and talk to the inspectors some more. You might be able to get out of the whole thing. However, they will typically fit you into the most expensive category that is applicable.

I think the inspector thing, like so many other service jobs, depend 100% on who the inspector is and how he's feeling that day. If he just got engaged or got a raise (or whatever) he'll probably let some minor things slip. However, if he's in the middle of a divorce he's not going to be so amiable.

When the electrical inspector came out earlier this week for my garage build he found a whole bunch of things that he failed to notice the first time around. We have to separate all the commons and grounds in the breaker boxes, install those stupid green ground wire nuts on all of the recepticles and run a ground wire to the nearest water pipe. Now, the water pipe I understand. My friend tells me that's national electric code, but why couldn't he have told me that the first time he was out at my house?

Call me cynical, but I did notice the $40 reinspection fee on the permit application.
 

Bull

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:tantrum2::tantrum2:

I'd say it was a surprising story of stupidity, but now that I know you live in MA, I am not surprised at all. If this state breaks apart from the continent and drifts out to sea, it'd be for the best for the nation. Bad for me, though, since I'm stuck here.

You out east, central, or west?

Well as you guys already know, I'm a remodeler in MA and if I didn't chuckle at what you are all going through, I would cry. With the economy being what it is, building departments are big revenue generators for towns. I just contracted to build a pool cabana in a town near me... The pool company was providing the slab for the building and they submitted plans for the whole project and received a building permit. Now when you apply for a permit for a project, you need to break down the project cost by subcontract labor as well, so the pool company included figures for the plumbing and electrical work.
Now the plumber and electrician still need to apply for and pay for their own respective permits on top of the general building permit. And I needed to apply for a permit to build the cabana. When I submitted my documentation for my permit, they told me they couldn't process the permit without the plumbing and electrical costs in my figures. I explained that I was only hired to build the box and was not the general contractor..no dice... I had to add the cost of plumbing and electrical to my permit as well, it doubled the permit cost!
Then I resubmitted the documents at which point they told me that I had to go through the sewer department and then the board of health. So off I go the water and sewer department, they hand me more forms because the pool cabana has a bathroom and they wanted engineered drawings of the sewer and the tie in. I explained again that there was a plumber on the job not associated with me in any way and that he had a permit, and the underground inspection was complete and the trench had been backfilled. They went nuts, at which point I called the plumber and he came to the sewer department and they read him the riot act even though the sewer connection was just into an existing sewer in the main house. The sewer official backed down some when he realized that the plumber did have permits and had the work inspected and he told the plumber that the plumbing inspector should have known that they needed a sewer permit.
Well since the plumber had the permit he needed and I didn't...I had to fork over another 300 bucks for the sewer permit and the plumber had to provide an as-built to the sewer department. I came back with the completed permit application and a check for 300.00 and they told me "we can't take your check, we're not bonded to accept money". So I had to drive across town to the town cashiers office and pay the bill there. ( Funny, the building department which is 6 feet from the sewer department accepts checks all the time, hmmmm). I return with the receipt and they tell me that they can't even enter my application in to the computer because the plumber hasn't provided his drawing!
Finally I do get a sewer permit and then I need to go to the board of health where they inform me that if I was going to renovate any existing exterior walls, I would need a signed affidavit from a certified pest inspector because I may displace rats into other folks homes. Thankfully, I wasn't.
So, off I go to the building department with my paperwork and a check for 50 bucks (the APPLICATION fee, not the permit fee) where they tell me that they can accept my paperwork and the check but it will take at least another week because the secretary was on vacation!
A week later, I get a call from the secretary because I don't have a plot plan. I explained that they have it on file from the original application by the pool company. She was surprised but I told her that the inspector had actually pulled the plot plan and showed it to me when I originally came up to talk to him about the project a month before. But she said that she needed to have a separate one from me showing the location of the cabana. I explained that the pool company located the cabana and provided the slab so how was it my problem? Stupid question, so I call the pool company, they provide me with a drawing showing the pool cabana location and then 3 days and another 200 bucks later, I get a permit. Total elapsed time: 1 month! Total hours on my part: about 14
Total trips to the building dept.:7 Total cost $550.00 for a 10x14 building!!!!!
Ant to top it all off, when I finally did get everything straightened out, the inspector looked at me with a big smirk on his face and said "all this for a lousy pool house."

Thanks for letting me vent
 

jay50

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Your problem started when you applied for the permit. It should have specified clearly that the building is for STORAGE.

When I built my shop....eh..."storage building", it only had the one light and one receptacle required by code. After the final inspection was signed off and the dumba$$ inspectors were out of my way, I went to town and upgraded all the electrial with outlets everywhere and pulled in 220 for a welder. I even had it plumbed for water/toilet before the final inspection...hid that very well....:lol_hitti

I like my shop...eh...storage building....

Inspections are just a means to keep goberment employees on the payroll eating up your tax dollars...:thumbup:
 

fireguy

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May 25, 2008
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530
At least the inspectors showed up. My last inspection in my community, was made with the senior building inspector. It made absolutly no difference that I had already had and passed the inspection on that job a year before. The guy did not show up at the agreed upon time. I gave him 10 minutes and called his cell phone. He had forgotten about the inspection entirely. He came in and we did the inspection, again and again passed. After the inspection, I asked why he was late and why he did not give me a courtesy call. He wanted to know who I made hte appointment with, I replied wiht him, the day before. I was told I made a mistake by talking to him and not to make appointmens with him. He further wanted to know why we did the inspection as he knew I passed before. To date, his office has not kept any appointments w/me, but he has been on the job site when we did not have an inspection appointment. They have filed my applications, and not acted upon them. Each inspection appointment not kept cost me time & money.

I have had fire inspectors not pass an inspection because "I have never seen it done that way". I always have a copy of the current code books on the job and have had inspectors refuse to look at the book. Of course, they do not have a copy in their posession, nor can they find the applicable code unless I point to it.

In fairness, I must point to Inspections Inc in Ontario, OR. They are always on time, they return phone calls and they are very knowlagble. If we have disagreements, we can discuss them and work out our differences. I just wish more inspectors were like them.
 

jay50

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I'm with you Jay.. But tell me, assume for argument's sake that you decide to sell someday... Do we just play dumb and pretend everything was permitted all along, or that we just don't know? (<<< that's what I'd do)

No plans to sell; I'll be carried out feet first from here when it's my time to go.:thumbup:

BTW, around here, permits are not checked as a normal practice when property is sold. Anyway, home owner can do all electrical work here without a permit.:thumbup: I just did a "few" upgrades, that's all....:lol_hitti
 

rieferman

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Collegeville PA (30 min west of Philly)
I'll be carried out feet first from here when it's my time to go

ha ha, the more I fix my place up, the more I realize that finding a place in as good of condition (so I don't have to do all this work AGAIN) is going to be tough. Therefore, I may be in your boat too :)

BTW, around here, permits are not checked as a normal practice when property is sold

same here I believe.. all the more reason that I'm with you on this one! :beer:
 
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The Money Pit

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Virginia
Your problem started when you applied for the permit. It should have specified clearly that the building is for STORAGE.

When I built my shop....eh..."storage building", it only had the one light and one receptacle required by code. After the final inspection was signed off and the dumba$$ inspectors were out of my way, I went to town and upgraded all the electrial with outlets everywhere and pulled in 220 for a welder. I even had it plumbed for water/toilet before the final inspection...hid that very well....:lol_hitti

I like my shop...eh...storage building....

Inspections are just a means to keep goberment employees on the payroll eating up your tax dollars...:thumbup:

It does specify and it says "finished storage". Too bad the inspectors can't tell the difference between storage and occupiable. They are the ones saying it's "occupiable" even though there's no where on the permit or anywhere else that says we are going to be living/occupying that space above the garage. I've gotten to the point where I'm just going to get the door, fix the other things they had failed it for, get the final and forget about it. It's going to be too much of a headache to fight them. I'm sure if they looked really hard, they could make me change more things and really be a thorn in my side. I'm sure they will tax the heck out of me. Probably a lot more than if it was "storage".
 

rwhite692

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Central Valley, CA
One thing that my builder does that he shared with me, is that, since he knows which inspectors are the reasonable/fair/straightforward ones to deal with, (there are only two meeting that description in our town), He does everything possible to stick with one inspector throughout the whole process, which means that he stayed in close contact with that inspector, and accommodated his schedule, no matter what. (Example, the inspector went on vacation for a week, so rather than just have any available inspector from the town be dispatched to our project, we waited an extra week on an inspection, until he got back).

When multiple different inspectors get involved in a project, there is usually a tendency for them to pick on things so that they can show the other inspector (or, show off to their boss, etc) that they are "better" because they noted something that the other one "missed", or they simply are trying to show that they are "doing their job and finding things"

(Of course, sometimes you have no choice other than to deal with multiple inspectors...)
 

tcianci

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
4,242
Location
Walpole, Ma
A couple of things...If you call for an appointment for an inspection, your code usually stipulates a time frame in which the building department needs to respond. I believe if they blow you off, you are in the clear to go to the next phase of the project. Now that being said, if you piss them off you are dirt until the whole current inspections department retires on 80% salary. So my 2nd point...they are ALWAYS RIGHT. If you know full well what you did meets code or exceeds it, just chalk it up to their stupidity and kiss his sneakers.
A short but true story: when I built my house 30 years ago, I was younger and less to lose than I do now so when I called for a foundation inspection, and waited, and called again, and waited several times...I happened to be in the town hall for something else and spotted the building inspector so I asked him when he was going to inspect my foundstion. He said "I'll be there tomorrow". I said great! Bring a shovel, I backfilled it last week!
 

brownbagg

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
5,208
best way to do an inspection is not be there. "Hey had to run out, leave me a list of what bad, be back soon" they dont like people hoving over them so they will overlook little stuff if by themselves.
 

JerseyJim

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
111
Location
Central NJ
I have a lot of dealings with inspectors both on a personal and professional level. Some are good. Some not so good. Just like the rest of us humans. One point I'd like to make here is that the space in question has been finished. It is painted, has carpeting, and apparently central heating and air conditioning. This certainly would pass the smell test as being finished space and potentially being suitable for living space. You even refer to the fact that people may watch television there.

Just because we call it storage space doesn't mean that is what it is. Some of the garages seen on this website certainly border on being finished and borderline-livable by definition. Some of them are nicer than many people's homes. But all of this represents a judgment call for the inspector. Many areas including the one that I live in do not allow two story garages. Mine is physically two stories high but is not in violation because the second story is unfinished. Thus it is considered a one story building with unfinished storage above it.

Keep in mind that the inspector not only has to consider what you say the purpose of the area is. But also what might be done with it over the course of its life. What you now say is storage, to the next owner may look like the perfect place to shelter an unwelcome mother-in-law.
 

redsky49

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
582
Location
near the coast in eastern North Carolina
I went to Lowes and they have a steel exterior door for about $170. I would have to take down the old door, install the new one, caulk and paint. I will have to check with an inspector to make sure it's ok to use since it doesn't actually say "fire rated" on the door.

It's a catch 22. If I comply and install the new door, then they can say I willingly admit it's occupiable space (which it isn't) and could make me put 5/8" sheetrock along the wall the door is on AND have me tear out all the flex for the HVAC downstairs. Then they can tax me on ALL the space and not just the square footage for the footprint of the garage. They are treating it like it's a seperate residence. They are saying it's liveable space above the garage and the garage is attached to that liveable space. That's not what it says on my building permit or anywhere in the paperwork. They are trying to change it from "storage space" to "occupiable space" even though I did not apply for an occupiable permit. Just because it has all the characteristics of liveable space doesn't mean that's what it's being used for. It's just a nice area above the garage. No one is living or going to live up there. If I do contest it and they change their mind so I don't have to replace the door, then my taxes won't go through the roof. It's just screwed up any way you look at it.

Hold your horses there Moneypit. It wouldn't be the first time that someone tried to get past a code violation by creatively labeling a room or space as something other than what it actually will be used for. Inspectors are naturally suspicious. To an Inspector, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it is probably a duck. Despite your intent, if the room could reasonably be viewed as occupiable space, that is what the room construction has to adhere to. You could change your mind as to use, or the next owner could use the room differently, etc. That's not unreasonable. You said it yourself above.

Every Inspector is different, come from different backgrounds, and naturally sees different things when they inspect a project. Despite your inconvenience, lets cut the guy some slack. If you are in violation of code, don't blame the inspector. It's your responsibility to comply with all applicable building codes.

Your rated door should be researched a bit. The rating of the door is in relation to the rating of the wall. A 1 Hr. rated partition will usually have a 20 minute door rating. If you look at the inside (hinge) edge of the door you should see a label stating the UL rating of the door. It need not be a metal door, though it will take a solid core wood door to qualify.

You also can get into trouble by creating too large a storage area. Based on the actual size, you could be liable for smoke/fire dampers or even sprinklers. Generally this will only apply to commercial projects, but the final word, as always, is subject to local interpretation - how they view your use of the space.

No doubt there are more than a few jerks out there, but I am a firm supporter of building codes, and there is no other way to ensure compliance than to inspect at various stages of completion. Codes are compiled by experts in the field and are arrived at by consensus after a lengthy period of comment and modifications. That doesn't make them perfect, and often there are code revisions and modifications made, even prior to the next scheduled code publication.

Even though some item may not have been flagged by Plan Review prior to start of construction, the Inspector has the final word. Your best bet is to confirm that this is the sole issue, make the modification and request that the same Inspector revisit the site to confirm compliance. Save the old door for another project in the future.

As always, offered only as opinion
 

flesburg

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
105
Location
Pontiac, IL
AND, there are people in this country that want to turn our medical (not health) insurance over to people like the building inspectors, and think things will get better.

I went through some really silly issues with my garage too. The guy was really concerned that I was going to put a shower in my garage half baths, which could mean I was going to rent out the space as an apartment.
 

tcianci

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
4,242
Location
Walpole, Ma
It has been interesting to see the comments of those who attempt to get inside the mind of an inspector. It would be even more interesting to see if there are any real building inspectors here on GJ. Maybe they could log in under an assumed name, and comment and then disappear again so folks won't bug them about code issues forever and a day. I know what that's like, everyone wants free design and costing at every social event I go to. From now on I am introduced as a proctologist with a long history of Mal-practice issues.
But seriously, you can take the comments and stories re-counted here as anecdotal data about the phenomena we call the building department. There's got to be a reason for the universal impression we have of those characters. I would offer that a lot of inspectors are guys who couldn't make it on their own in the business and enjoy making life un-necessarily difficult for everyone around them. As a contractor, I have significantly more exposure to them than the DIY guys on here, lucky you. Try going through everything that has been written here and getting a paycheck at the same time.

Sorry if i seem to have lumped the good guys (and there are plenty) with the bad but as Cronkite used to say (till last week)..."And that's the way it is"
 

Chris Adams

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,117
On the flip side, many earthquake victims in China are wishing there was some type of building code enforced in their community.

You do know that they HAVE building inspectors?
More than we do, and they have more power than ours.
The buildings were inspected and passed.
It just happened that the bribes paid to the higher officials outweighed the bribes paid to the lower officials. Or the inspectors couldn’t find the buildings, and passed them anyway. I’ve seen both.
I take it you have never been in a socialist country.
The incompetent idiot who 'pretends' to be a building inspector has full authority, except when the incompetent thieving idiot who is a local 'czar' of buildings accepts a bigger bribe, or has a financial interest in overruling the lower incompetent.

No building in China built since 46 has ever been completed without lots of 'squeeze' and lots of politics. Remember, those building belong to the 'people' i.e. the government.
 

Chris Adams

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
2,117
AND, there are people in this country that want to turn our medical (not health) insurance over to people like the building inspectors, and think things will get better.

I went through some really silly issues with my garage too. The guy was really concerned that I was going to put a shower in my garage half baths, which could mean I was going to rent out the space as an apartment.

Nonsense.
Building inspectors are much more competent than the bureaucrats
that will OWN your healthcare.
Dealing with inspectors is like dealing the DMV. Why is that, I wonder?
 

uncleaud

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
6
Arguing with us building inspectors is like wrestling witha pig in the mud. After while you start to realize that the pig kinda likes it:)
 
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