Building loft in garage

[grabeb]

I am getting ready to have a 26' x 32' garage built. Originally, I was going to frame it myself as I have experience of several years, but it's been 20yrs ago. In any case, I think I found a builder that is going to do about 80% of the build and I'll finish up with getting overhead door installed, electrical and siding/painting to save a few $$.

The plan is 12' side walls with 8/12 pitch roof as I'm planning on installing a 4 post XL car lift and I have a Yukon XL that will be on lift when need be and I'll be storing a 1960 Suburban on it when not. I want the lift to go above my 6'2" head when stowed! In any case on the front of garage over the 8' overhead door I want to install a loft....I've thought of many different ways to accomplish this, but I think the best is to frame the sidewalls like the rest of garage with the scissor truss above. Then come in on the side and run an LVL beam from side to side, so 26' long. Then run joists off of this to the gable end above the overhead door. The loft will only be for storage of seasonal decoration, maybe some car parts, etc.

What I'm not sure of is what's the best way to accomplish this? Will I fame it just inside the wall like a normal header would be with the LVL coming out perpendicular to span the room and repeat on opposite wall? Doesn't seem like enough, but it's been years and I never had to figure that type of buildup out. The builder and I talked a bit about this, I might pay him extra to order the beam and install it and I just frame out the floor joist and install the floor. Might also give the overhead door people somewhere to install their tracks. Is the LVL the way to go? I'm guessing it'll span that distance.

 

[grabeb]

In the above, I'd imaging since it would be the header for the joist(s), it would need to be doubled up.

Another thought is maybe I Joists and span them 16"OC to create the framing side to side and not run anything back.

 

[FNM]

Hope it helps - I decided to go 13ft ceilings after factoring sheet rock, my light fixtures and lift specs saying a little over 12ft. Didn’t want to be limited. Going with a 4 post too and also 6ft 2.

also have high rails from overhead

 

[grabeb]

I'm going the 12' sidewall with the scissor truss roof. I can't recall off hand how much roof space I'll have, but it seems that with a 25' wide building, if I set the lift at 3' off the wall, I'd just have enough at full height to be a few inches under the roof line. That's with a Yukon XL up on the lift and full extension. I've been eyeing the BendPak HD9XW, which has a lift height of 100". I'm curious what lift you are looking at as well?

 

[FNM]

Cool! Mines a 24x26 so bit different but went TJIs as I have a full loft with knee walls above.
Lift wise I ordered the Direct Lift after many recommendations from my car forums and getting the rolling jack too. Bit of a back order so haven’t yet picked it up but a ‘little’ excited

this is the one I got:

Direct-Lift® Pro-Park 9 Plus Certified 4 Post Lift

This 4 post lift accommodates the height, length, & width to fit a crewcab long bed truck on top or underneath. Perfect for family & commercial shops.

www.derekweaver.com

 

[jack stand]

You know your guy will be sawing off a foot of all your studs. Why not go with 14' + any plates?

 

[wssix99]

I want the lift to go above my 6'2" head when stowed!

You need to do more math and prep. 12' probably isn't going to be enough. You'll want to check to see if you have any code limitations as to how close you can store things to the ceiling. As well, your floor will likely be sloped, so the height to the ceiling at the front of the garage is not going to be the same as the rear.

You might need more height.

 

[grabeb]

My truck is 76.8". Max lift to top off rail on lift is 86.5". That's 13.6' to top of my vehicle on lift. Side wall is 12'. 8/12 Scissor truss at 6/12 interior, I believe, means it should have 1-1/2' rise at 3' in from wall. Correct? So within an inch of clearance...i might have to move a few inches over and that's fine. I'm likely ok with 4' from wall.

The floor will be flat where the lift is going, I'll have slope to drain under overhead door. The lift will not be used under door. It'll be in back portion of garage.

Wasn't aware of any codes concerning height to ceiling for storage on lift. Please explain? Not sure i am too worried as i won't store it up there, my lowered 60 suburban might be but it's considerably shorter.

 

[grabeb]

You know your guy will be sawing off a foot of all your studs. Why not go with 14' + any plates?

I know he'll likely saw some off and if he thinks we can get away with the 12' plus places plates, I'm good with that and I'll gain my inches needed.... but that'll throw off the plywood....hmmm!!

Why not taller? Well i think it has to be under 23' (maybe 21'). 8/12 roof by 26' wide will put me at approximately 20.67'. Just getting really close add in I'm told they measure from grade, which will be 6" below slab, I'll be really pushing 21'. Then to further complicate, i have a power pole running down my side of alley that this is going off of and I'm only 3'-5' of the centerline of that pole. The secondary wires are 24.65' up off the ground..... probably best to not push things. I'm actually hoping i don't have to shrink garage down.

 

[grabeb]

Cool! Mines a 24x26 so bit different but went TJIs as I have a full loft with knee walls above.
Lift wise I ordered the Direct Lift after many recommendations from my car forums and getting the rolling jack too. Bit of a back order so haven’t yet picked it up but a ‘little’ excited

this is the one I got:

Direct-Lift® Pro-Park 9 Plus Certified 4 Post Lift

This 4 post lift accommodates the height, length, & width to fit a crewcab long bed truck on top or underneath. Perfect for family & commercial shops.

www.derekweaver.com

I'll have to check out that lift. Thanks!

 

[wssix99]

My truck is 76.8". Max lift to top off rail on lift is 86.5". That's 13.6' to top of my vehicle on lift. Side wall is 12'. 8/12 Scissor truss at 6/12 interior, I believe, means it should have 1-1/2' rise at 3' in from wall. Correct? So within an inch of clearance...i might have to move a few inches over and that's fine. I'm likely ok with 4' from wall.

I wouldn't trust my trigonometry or anyone elses' from the internet. lol

Even with a four post lift, you'll still need to center the weight of the vehicle, otherwise the adjustments you do for the locks and leveling of the lift can fall off. So, as you consider this, you'll want to figure out your center of mass and then place your vehicle on the footprint of the lift to figure out where you will sit.

The floor will be flat where the lift is going, I'll have slope to drain under overhead door. The lift will not be used under door. It'll be in back portion of garage.

I brought this up as some codes don't allow flat floors, depending on the municipality, if the garage is attached, etc. (BTW - The slope isn't for water drainage, it's for evacuation of heavier-than-air gasses, like leaking gasoline vapor.)

Wasn't aware of any codes concerning height to ceiling for storage on lift. Please explain? Not sure i am too worried as i won't store it up there, my lowered 60 suburban might be but it's considerably shorter.

This will vary based on local codes. Often some municipalities will require a 24" firefighting clearance to the ceiling for stored goods, but there could be different rules for garages with no other floors above, areas bordering side walls, etc. (I admit that I occasionally take liberties with my local requirements for short periods.)

 

[grabeb]

I wouldn't trust my trigonometry or anyone elses' from the internet. lol

Even with a four post lift, you'll still need to center the weight of the vehicle, otherwise the adjustments you do for the locks and leveling of the lift can fall off. So, as you consider this, you'll want to figure out your center of mass and then place your vehicle on the footprint of the lift to figure out where you will sit.


I brought this up as some codes don't allow flat floors, depending on the municipality, if the garage is attached, etc. (BTW - The slope isn't for water drainage, it's for evacuation of heavier-than-air gasses, like leaking gasoline vapor.)


This will vary based on local codes. Often some municipalities will require a 24" firefighting clearance to the ceiling for stored goods, but there could be different rules for garages with no other floors above, areas bordering side walls, etc. (I admit that I occasionally take liberties with my local requirements for short periods.)

I wouldn't trust my trig either, mainly because I never took it, but this is really simple math. Unless I'm missing something. A(Vehicle height) + B(Max lift height to top of deck on lift) = C(overall height). Then for the truss's I'm going off the engineered specs from the truss company. If they say the bottom of the truss is 6/12, you can bet it'll be 6/12. They all have to be the same. Again 'simple' math says 3' in on a 6/12 pitch is 1-1/2' of rise for that 3 foot of run. And like I said if I have to move in to 4' or 3-1/2' I'm good with that I believe. If not I just won't raise the Yukon XL to those heights. I want the lift partly for Maintainence and partly to store my 60 Burb on....the latter is when I'll want the height.

I am curious about how much centering there is on a 4 post, but I'm sure there is certainly some. I'm buying way more lift, poundage wise than I really need, but I would rather spend a grand more on a lift than loose a car and worse yet risk death/injury. I certainly know there is a LOT of balancing on a 2 post which is partly why I am not going that route. I'll learn more as I read more on them. I'm several months away from one as it is.

As for the flat, I've never heard that. Interesting! I've literally had two contractors out to quote this complete job and about 6 concrete guys out and they all said go flat for the lift and the lift concrete instructions say flat is definitely preferred. That said, I know most garage floors are sloped some and lifts are in those. This is also a detached structure!

Thanks for the info.....I was hoping to break ground back in March, so I've had an extra 6 months to think about things and they are finally moving forward. I sign with the contractor today. I am trying to plan for anything and everything!

 

[u2slow]

I know he'll likely saw some off and if he thinks we can get away with the 12' plus places plates, I'm good with that and I'll gain my inches needed.... but that'll throw off the plywood....hmmm!!

Why not taller? Well i think it has to be under 23' (maybe 21'). 8/12 roof by 26' wide will put me at approximately 20.67'. Just getting really close add in I'm told they measure from grade, which will be 6" below slab, I'll be really pushing 21'.

I did a concrete stem wall to get the lumber further away from grade. I wanted 2 feet, but had to settle for ~14" due to cost overrun. I went to full legal bylaw dimensions and did not worry about plywood cuts. Its not reasonable to add just a little extra later.

Also, my pitched roof was measured to the 'mean' height (i.e. halfway up the slope). My ceiling height is technically higher than max mean height. Since it is an overheight-access building, loft area will not be above the OH door.

 

[grabeb]

I did a concrete stem wall to get the lumber further away from grade. I wanted 2 feet, but had to settle for ~14" due to cost overrun. I went to full legal bylaw dimensions and did not worry about plywood cuts. Its not reasonable to add just a little extra later.

Also, my pitched roof was measured to the 'mean' height (i.e. halfway up the slope). My ceiling height is technically higher than max mean height. Since it is an overheight-access building, loft area will not be above the OH door.

I've debated long and hard on a stem wall. Neighbor, who is a brick mason, built a garage a few years back and his grade is too low and takes on some water off alley when it rains a lot. He regrets not running a course or two of concrete block....our houses are on block foundations. I really, really debated that, but both contractors and even several of the concrete guys said they'd do, but didn't recommend with my lot. By the time they pour the slab I'll be 5-1/2" to 6" above grade at the high point, which will eventually get a 'sidewalk' run along it to keep the space between the property line from being a mud hole between the building and the fence. That means the low side, which is the only side to get landscaped will likely be 6-10" above grade. I'll also be ~5" above the alley, so water from alley will not run into my garage.

I'm also a bit concerned there might be too much slope from alley to garage, as it'll be a pretty short approach, for me to easily pull my lowered 60 C10 Suburban into the garage. I'll worry about that later!

I think the 12' sidewall and the 8/12 roof will dominate the back yard, but it shouldn't look too out of place I hope. My house has 9' ceilings, as I mentioned it's built on block foundation, which stands proud 4 courses as they built our houses up due to flooding 100yrs ago. They have since taken care of that issue about 50+ years ago, but due to all of that, it is 11' to the bottom of my roofline on the single story parts of house. I worry that too much taller and it wouldn't look right. Plus it'll eventually likely be tied into my existing 100yr old garage, which is only 8' ceiling height....can't recall it's pitch!

 

[wssix99]

I am curious about how much centering there is on a 4 post, but I'm sure there is certainly some. I'm buying way more lift, poundage wise than I really need, but I would rather spend a grand more on a lift than loose a car and worse yet risk death/injury. I certainly know there is a LOT of balancing on a 2 post which is partly why I am not going that route. I'll learn more as I read more on them. I'm several months away from one as it is.

You don't have to be as exacting with the 4 post, but the weight is still carried by steel cables which stretch. No matter how strong the lift is, the 4 corners will raise differentially if the load is off-center. (Before you put anything on it, the instructions will take you through a leveling process across the four corners so the locks engage together on all four posts.) If the weight is off, the locks engage differently, which can be a pain to set the load down on the locks and can cause issues all the way at the top position of the lift.

As for the flat, I've never heard that. Interesting! I've literally had two contractors out to quote this complete job and about 6 concrete guys out and they all said go flat for the lift and the lift concrete instructions say flat is definitely preferred. That said, I know most garage floors are sloped some and lifts are in those. This is also a detached structure!

This is true. You can go slope-flat-slope and create a level portion in the middle for the lift. The lift instructions do prefer that... (So they don't have to provide you with an infinite amount of massive shims.)

^ If you do this, it's important that you do have the slope ahead of and behind the lift. Otherwise gasses move forward and get trapped in parts of the building where you really don't want them. If you go slope-flat-slope, they will eventually work their way where you want them - out the door. (Even if not as quickly if the floor had a continuous slope.)

I did a continuous slope and ended up needing to cut some custom shims out of 1", 1/8", and 1/16" plate steel. They look great but it cost me several hundred dollars and was another thing to deal with, paint, etc.

 

[dfiler2]

Not sure if you got your question about the I-joists answered but I have an example close to yours. I used 26' I-joists for the ceiling in my shop, I have 3/4 T&G plywood glued and nailed with 8p ring shank nails. When I started loading it I made a mark in the center of the room on the ceiling and every now and then I measure the distance, in 6 years it hasn't moved at all. I have a lift to get items up there so I have some fairly heavy items stored up there. I would be very comfortable spanning the 26', if I remember right they are 16" on center and are 13" high.

 

[dhally]

It may be just as cost effective to make the building larger instead a loft. A real stairway eats up space, and a ladder makes the space almost unusable (based on what I've seen). The extra bay could be shorter.

 

[grabeb]

Not sure if you got your question about the I-joists answered but I have an example close to yours. I used 26' I-joists for the ceiling in my shop, I have 3/4 T&G plywood glued and nailed with 8p ring shank nails. When I started loading it I made a mark in the center of the room on the ceiling and every now and then I measure the distance, in 6 years it hasn't moved at all. I have a lift to get items up there so I have some fairly heavy items stored up there. I would be very comfortable spanning the 26', if I remember right they are 16" on center and are 13" high.

Do you recall what the i- jousts cost? Builder did the lvl will likely be about $800. He'll charge about $100 to install. I'd then come back and hang joists off that to the table wall.

My other option is the i hosts like you did. I'm good with either.

I'll likely install an attic ladder for access, or use the 4 post lift for heavy items if it's close enough.

 

[grabeb]

It may be just as cost effective to make the building larger instead a loft. A real stairway eats up space, and a ladder makes the space almost unusable (based on what I've seen). The extra bay could be shorter.

I'm pushing the limits on size already. But you are likely correct. I'll likely access with an attic ladder.

 

[dhally]

I'm pushing the limits on size already. But you are likely correct. I'll likely access with an attic ladder.

In my experience, the only things stored in a loft are things that never get used. I put that kind of stuff outside. Close to the dump pile.

 

[grabeb]

In my experience, the only things stored in a loft are things that never get used. I put that kind of stuff outside. Close to the dump pile.

In my experience, I want a place for seasonal decorations, which I'm not tossing! I also have a few other things that aren't used often but seasonally pull out. I want that stuff off my floor!

 

[dfiler2]

Sorry don't remember the cost was 6 years ago so the price has probably changed. It is a very useful space and well worth it in my opinion.

 

[FMB4]

Yep, don't sweat 'inches' when you can be sure with 14' rather than 12'.