Building new house, electrical needs

[datsunfan]

I am about to sign the contract for my new house to be built on a 1-acre lot that I already own. The builder says his standard electrical service is 200 amps but for $100 extra he will upgrade to 400 amps so I will have "plenty of power" for a shop I want to add later (30x40 pole barn).

Also the proposal says $750.00 for 100 amp sub-panel for future shop/garage. Is this a good idea? Would it cost alot more if I waited until I actually build the shop (after selling my existing house) to add this sub-panel?

AND I would like to have a transfer switch on the house so if the power goes out I can hook up a portable generator that I already own to run some essential items on the house only. The builder has not given me a price on this yet. If I decide to wait and add that feature later, does the cost get
alot higher, to the point where I can no longer afford it? What kind of pricing should I expect on something like this?

Thank You!

 

[Zeke]

I would think you'd want the sub panel for the 'future' garage in that garage. But, you can stub out the conduit so it will be neat and clean when you do build the garage.

As for the transfer switch, maybe panels can come equipped with them? If not, make sure you have surface space adjacent to your load center to install the thing. Again, if you go with a flush panel, stub out for any accessories.

Can't comment on prices. Planning for the future shouldn't cost much.

 

[Teken]

I have no clue where you live but if someone only asked $100.00 to upgrade from 200 amps to 400 amps.

By God, do it man . . .

I know when I asked to upgrade my main service from a tiny 100 amp, to 200 amp main panel it was some insane number like $1200 plus. I truly felt I got raped but at the end of the day its in the house now and I have plenty of space to expand into the future.

Now, that $750.00 for that 100 amp sub panel, again. I would be all over it in a heat beat!

Unless you know you can do it for less, and acquire the equipment for less, than wait and see but make sure all the rough in and wiring is all done for you.

Teken . . .

 

[Gunslinger99]

Go with the 400 amp main panel. You'll want that if you add a shop to it. Keep in mind the wire to the 400 amp panel from the power company is bigger then the wire ran to a 200 amp panel and will be more money.

I'd probably go for 200 amp sub-panel for the future shop/garage but that is just me. It's actually what I did for my shop/garage area. Depends on what you are going to run in there too. Welders, saws, 220v electric heaters, car lift, etc.... can start to add up. You'll need to access what is going in there and determine if the 200 amp is necessary. Again the panel's themselves are not a huge price difference between 100-200, but the wire is and can get expensive. Especially over long runs.

Seems like everything is more expensive to do later. The generator sub-panel would definitely be more money to do later. And in some cases not feasible to do because of the amount of work it would take to run the wire to the sub-panel from the outside. Unless, you won't have an inside panel for the house?

Sieman's makes a generator ready sub-panel-->
http://w3.usa.siemens.com/powerdist...rs/generator-ready/pages/generator-ready.aspx

You can google the part number and get some online costs for parts only to get an idea of some costs. Labor will probably be as much as the parts. Seems like it usually works out that way. Material is about 50% and labor makes up the other 40% and the builder usually gets the other 10%.

Might be a way to go. I almost went this way then didn't mainly because we haven't seen the power go off much were we live (knock on wood) and didn't feel it would be worth the added costs as we didn't feel we would use it enough to justify the cost.

I don't understand how you would install a sub-panel for a future shop/garage when the building isn't even there???? That's just not making sense......

 

[Gunslinger99]

By the way, they wanted $1750 to upgrade to a 400 amp panel on the bid I got for the electrical on my house.... for $100 that is a steal......... do it!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Can your power company actually deliver 400A ?

 

[Rob_b]

WOW...having a 400amp service...400/500mcm cable feeds to a home...100amp to the shop... man, did the sky open to this incredibly bright light...if you can do it, then by all mean do it. You'll never be able to beat that price...ever!! Have him install a transfer switch whiles he's at it. Much easier during new construction.

 

[wssix99]

Also the proposal says $750.00 for 100 amp sub-panel for future shop/garage. Is this a good idea? Would it cost alot more if I waited until I actually build the shop (after selling my existing house) to add this sub-panel?

It's not the full story. $100 may buy you a 400 amp panel, but it won't cover the service from the electric company. That part of the equation is MUCH more expensive.

IMO - Wait until you need the power to upgrade. You'll have to pay so much money to the electrical company for the upgrade, thicker wires on your drop, etc. you won't even notice the extra money for the box.

I was just looking at this for my in-progress garage. If I had 10 guys working in it with me, I'd need the xtra power - otherwise I'm fine on a normal service. I may install a 30amp appliance here, a 40A appliance there, etc. but if its only me in the shop - I'll only be running one tool/device at a time! Theoretically, you can have 400A of breakers on a 200A service. The catch is that you can't actually use more than 200A of it at any one time.

 

[Norcal]

It's not the full story. $100 may buy you a 400 amp panel, but it won't cover the service from the electric company. That part of the equation is MUCH more expensive.

IMO - Wait until you need the power to upgrade. You'll have to pay so much money to the electrical company for the upgrade, thicker wires on your drop, etc. you won't even notice the extra money for the box.

I was just looking at this for my in-progress garage. If I had 10 guys working in it with me, I'd need the xtra power - otherwise I'm fine on a normal service. I may install a 30amp appliance here, a 40A appliance there, etc. but if its only me in the shop - I'll only be running one tool/device at a time! Theoretically, you can have 400A of breakers on a 200A service. The catch is that you can't actually use more than 200A of it at any one time.[/QUOTE]

The combined ratings of circuit breakers is totally irrelevant, what matters is the calculated load.

 

[KLRCraig]

The max the power co told me I could have to my house was 320 amps last year when I built my new house. Then after construction started I added a 1500 sq shop at the back of the lot and the contractor put 200 on the shop and 200 on the house but no 3 phase I asked and begged.

 

[aandpdan]

You may/may not need the 400 amp service. Due a load calculation.

Consider an interlock for your generator. You can run any circuit using one.

Whatever panel you buy get the OEM interlock - many are less than $50, not the aftermarket brand for $150 or more.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OP- Are u sure u need 400a service? Most of the time, people over estimate the amount of power they actually need!

Have u done load calcs?
How big is your house going to be?
What electric appliances will u have in your house?
What kind of tools will you be running in your shop and will this be a solo shop or will there be multiple people working in there?

And I wouldnt be surprised if the $100 to upgrade to 400a doesn't include the cost to upgrade the drop/feeder from the PoCo!

 

[walleye catcher]

Do a load calculation. What is the main source of heating ? If gas is available you would be spending a lot of extra $ for nothing. Don't over build not worth it.

 

[matt151617]

400 amp service is usually needed only for crazy power needs (full shop with multiple people working) or electric heating.

Do everything you want now, as they are building the house. It'll be much easier to integrate the boxes, panels, wiring, etc into the framing/siding/drywall as it's being built instead of after.

 

[AZ Garage]

$100 is a STEAL!!!

However, as stated, determine what your actual needs are. 400A is a LOT of juice, I've seen MANY small commercial outfits do fine with only 200A, but unless you anticipate requiring a lot of extra power, go for the 400A!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

400amps is nice. Ask how many breakers will go in the box, the more breakers the more circuits you can have in the house.

By all means get the "right cutover switch" for the generator NOW. Get the house wired RIGHT. Check with the building inspector to see what they have for requirements, the might have none. But we've heard some really weird local requirements on this forum.

The installation of the 400amp service might not be the only cost of 400amp service. Check with your utility and find out if they charge MORE base, monthly charge for 400amp over 200amp.

What are you going to use in the shop? Do you need 3 phase power? If so, now is the time.

If the cost isn't prohibitive, I would go 400amps in a heart beat and also put the generator cutover switch in right up front. You will never, every do any of these things any cheaper.

Where is "Green Country"? Do you get snow? Have the potential for ice dams in your gutters? If so, next to EVERY downspout, wire a 20amp outside outlet on an inside switch. You might need more than one circuit; check the power requirements of the heating tapes and the lengths of the gutter, downspout, and valley you need to heat. I would go as far as a separate switch for each outlet, tied back to a single switch panel in a utility room. Then use the outlets to power the heat tapes that you can put in gutters and up the valleys to melt the snow and ice and prevent ice dams.

Also think about switched outside outlets for holiday lights.

Put double boxes with four outlets on either side of the beds (get ahead of power strips and special multi-outlet adapters).

Wire the kitchen counter with two or three 20 amp circuits. Anywhere you MIGHT plug in a cell phone or smart phone or device that uses a USB cord to charge, install some of those new powered USB outlets.

Anywhere you're going to have a TV or entertainment equipment or a computer or a router or any of that stuff put in at least a double or even triple or quad boxes with four, six or eight outlets. Eliminate power strips and special adapters.

In the bathrooms, I would wire the outlet next to each sink on its OWN dedicated 20 amp GFI circuit in a double box with four outlets. That way the women can plug in just about anything and not blow the circuits.

I like outlets with little pilot lights so I know if the outlet has juice without having to run downstairs to the breaker panel.

Be liberal with outlets in the garage ... double boxes, four 20 amp outlets to a box. Put them high 52" above the floor so you can lean a 4' piece of plywood against the wall and still find the outlet. If you're going to have a bench in the garage ... four outlets every 32".

Put a ceiling light in over the breaker panel so you can see the breaker numbers and read the legend.

I've heard an argument that EVERY outlet should be on a 20amp circuit, no exceptions.

So ... get a panel with a TON of breakers.

I know I'll get flamed for over wiring, but now is the time. You will NEVER put this stuff in any cheaper.

 

[sselander]

Think about putting a panel on the 2nd floor in addition to the primary one. Makes things easier.

 

[datsunfan]

400amps is nice. Ask how many breakers will go in the box, the more breakers the more circuits you can have in the house.

By all means get the "right cutover switch" for the generator NOW. Get the house wired RIGHT. Check with the building inspector to see what they have for requirements, the might have none. But we've heard some really weird local requirements on this forum.

The installation of the 400amp service might not be the only cost of 400amp service. Check with your utility and find out if they charge MORE base, monthly charge for 400amp over 200amp.

What are you going to use in the shop? Do you need 3 phase power? If so, now is the time.

If the cost isn't prohibitive, I would go 400amps in a heart beat and also put the generator cutover switch in right up front. You will never, every do any of these things any cheaper.

Where is "Green Country"? Do you get snow? Have the potential for ice dams in your gutters? If so, next to EVERY downspout, wire a 20amp outside outlet on an inside switch. You might need more than one circuit; check the power requirements of the heating tapes and the lengths of the gutter, downspout, and valley you need to heat. I would go as far as a separate switch for each outlet, tied back to a single switch panel in a utility room. Then use the outlets to power the heat tapes that you can put in gutters and up the valleys to melt the snow and ice and prevent ice dams.

Also think about switched outside outlets for holiday lights.

Put double boxes with four outlets on either side of the beds (get ahead of power strips and special multi-outlet adapters).

Wire the kitchen counter with two or three 20 amp circuits. Anywhere you MIGHT plug in a cell phone or smart phone or device that uses a USB cord to charge, install some of those new powered USB outlets.

Anywhere you're going to have a TV or entertainment equipment or a computer or a router or any of that stuff put in at least a double or even triple or quad boxes with four, six or eight outlets. Eliminate power strips and special adapters.

In the bathrooms, I would wire the outlet next to each sink on its OWN dedicated 20 amp GFI circuit in a double box with four outlets. That way the women can plug in just about anything and not blow the circuits.

I like outlets with little pilot lights so I know if the outlet has juice without having to run downstairs to the breaker panel.

Be liberal with outlets in the garage ... double boxes, four 20 amp outlets to a box. Put them high 52" above the floor so you can lean a 4' piece of plywood against the wall and still find the outlet. If you're going to have a bench in the garage ... four outlets every 32".

Put a ceiling light in over the breaker panel so you can see the breaker numbers and read the legend.

I've heard an argument that EVERY outlet should be on a 20amp circuit, no exceptions.

So ... get a panel with a TON of breakers.

I know I'll get flamed for over wiring, but now is the time. You will NEVER put this stuff in any cheaper.

Some great advice here, never would have thought of those things! Thanks!

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

OP ... where is Green Country? Will you have a basement with this house?

 

[datsunfan]

OP ... where is Green Country? Will you have a basement with this house?

Northeastern Oklahoma. No basement on my house. Few houses have basements here.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Another suggestion. Are you going to have glass in the door between the house and the garage? If not, put a light someone in the house that is on when the light(s) in the garage is(are) on. That way you won't leave those lights on accidently at night.

 

[ddawg16]

Answer a few questions.....

1. Is your heat electric?
2. Water heater electric?
3. Are you allergic to CFL or LED bulbs?
4. Will your house have occupancy sensors?
5. Will you be running a kiln in your garage?
6. Is solar and option in your area?

 

[datsunfan]

Another suggestion. Are you going to have glass in the door between the house and the garage? If not, put a light someone in the house that is on when the light(s) in the garage is(are) on. That way you won't leave those lights on accidently at night.

Good Idea! Thanks!

 

[datsunfan]

Answer a few questions.....

1. Is your heat electric?
2. Water heater electric?
3. Are you allergic to CFL or LED bulbs?
4. Will your house have occupancy sensors?
5. Will you be running a kiln in your garage?
6. Is solar and option in your area?

1,2, and 3, no. 4, I'm not sure, are you referring to the alarm sensors? 5, no. 6, maybe but I'm probably not going to go that route.