Building new house with 3 car attached. Suggestions?

[zacm829]

Building what will be our home for hopefully the next 20+ years. The plan is to do a deteached eventually but with kids in the future I could see that being a decade away at least. I have negotiated with the wife to get a decent sized 3 car with the option for a 2 post lift.

This is where I need your help to decide if there is anything I can do prebuild to optmize the space or any inexpensive changes you would do before we break ground. The garage will be home to my 1987 Bmw 325i project car, a motorcycle/seadoo spark on a cart plus the wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee. I will have a workbench and tool chest plus would love a sink.

I'm including a picture of the plan for the first floor. Thanks in advance for any input, trying to make this liveable for the next decade!

Firstfloorplan by Zachary Murray, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Balor]

Nice zac.

 

[CombatNinja]

Unless there is something dictating your door configuration, I would swap the position of the large and small doors. With project vehicles and potentially backing trailers in, etc I would rather the small door be up where you have that little extra wall and where all of your tools and cabinets will doubtlessly end up. The big bay can then have that long wall that you can keep 'slick' for ease of parking. Your mileage may vary, but that is how I would set up that door config in that space.

 

[Cougar]

Deeper if possible, 28-32'.

 

[astroracer]

Agree on the deeper if possible. At least 28'. That way you don't have to keep that long wall "slick". You can then use it for benches and shelving and still have room to walk around the front of a car.
Also position the OH doors so there is at least 4' from the door edge to the inside wall, for the same reason as above.
Remember your dimensions are usually to the outside of the building so you will lose whatever the finished wall thickness is on the inside dimensions
Mark.

 

[CombatNinja]

I knew 8 out of 10 suggestions here were going to be "Build it bigger". I disagreee in the case of an attached triple. You already have it oversized compared to what you would get in a 'cookie cutter' tract built house in which the triple would be a small double only 20' deep with a tiny single grafted on the side, usually with just a small interior door connecting them. You have spec'd it plenty big, don't listen to these guys on here. The 'build it bigger' crowd would have you build your home to the point that it would have 14' high garage doors, 20' ceilings, 3 16' wide doors and dwarf the house. Oh, and it would cost $200K.

That said, one other thing I did notice is the location of that service door out to the backyard. I don't like putting those doors in corners because when it comes to workbenches and cabinets, corners is where you can make your money on storing large items. Unless you have some predetermined setup for that long wall with uninterrupted cabinets or benches, I would put that service door in the middle of that wall instead to preserve the corner for a nice bench setup.

 

[Moosefire]

24 foot would probably be doable. A 19' suburban is under 19 foot long, so add in a 2 foot deep workbench and theres still just enough room to walk behind there. Not optimal but definitely doable. It gets better with the smaller your vehicle is as well

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[matt_i]

This is going to be strange on GJ but I think the kitchen is too small.

 

[astroracer]

The OP asked the question... "This is where I need your help to decide if there is anything I can do prebuild to optmize the space or any inexpensive changes you would do before we break ground."

The issue here is not just parking a car... If that was all the OP intended 23' (or less) would be plenty. It sounds like he intends to also work on a vehicle as well so 23' is just enough room to get really frustrated trying to work and maneuver tools around a non-movable object.
With a lift involved 12' ceilings is a minimum to get full use of it. Keeping the lift at least three feet off the interior wall so you can walk and work around it is also an "optimization".
Making suggestions to increase the size is coming from years of experience in my case. Trying to "optimize the space" as he requested... Of course, what he does with the suggestions is entirely up to him... All we are doing is trying to help... I am very sorry if this has upset some of the other posters but he did ask...
Mark

 

[AZ Pete]

I would go deeper. Not much cost, and you cannot do it later. 2' deeper would give you a lot more space to work around.

 

[BB Sig]

This is going to be strange on GJ but I think the kitchen is too small.

I agree!

Make the garage depth 26' or more. 26' is my bare minimum for a garage.

Barry
North Florida

 

[yeldogt]

The OP does not mention the conditions of the build -- there can be many limitations. If this is a development, any alterations can get expensive ... even if a design/ build the cost of engineering set plans can be prohibitive. What to many are simple upgrades .. get crazy expensive.

Have you made sure a lift has the proper height available ...?

Get good garage doors -- make sure they install heavy duty tracks and hardware. You will get 20 years of trouble free service that way.

I think having the small door for the wife in the front is logical -- driver door of car near house door. easy for her. You have the back project area out of the way with the long wall for benches and tools.

Personally -- I would eliminate the service door to the back. I never build with one and never used the door when I bought a house with one. The garage door is there. This will get you 3' of space .. space you really can use. With the depth you are working with you will have limited space in front of the vehicles -- that's going to require tool boxes and bench on the only wall available -- the back.

Unrelated: Are you sure you want the tub design in the bath? Strange layout and tubs like that are so rarely used. Everybody is has or is ripping them out ... they were huge in the 90's. The kitchen is small ... with the footprint available. I would rework the living dinning kitchen space

 

[MFolks]

Getting an air compressor? Think of having it out of the garage in it's own lockable enclosure for noise control,maybe? Power and airlines through the enclosure to the garage,and FRL(Filter,Regulator,Lubricators) where needed? A disconnect switch in the enclosure for maint. work when needed.

 

[MJK]

I have a very similar garage layout to that. my $.02

* go a little deeper if you can. I like having the back wall for work bench, fridge, storage, etc still with plenty of room to walk around a larger car or truck. I'd reserve 5' of depth of 27' total for this.
* flip the doors and put the lift in single bay and proximal to tools.
* get rid of the man door to the back yard (I'd rather have the wall space and walk a little further)
* plan for lots of lighting (primarily between the cars and over work benches)
* route air and electrical drops to the middle of the ceiling between the single and double days and mount a reel each there.
* if you plan on welding or working in a 220v compressor, plan for it and IMO put it in/near a corner (easier to isolate and keep away from wind)
* don't forget about storage. I like to put table saws, pressure washers, miter saws and larger tools under the bench. I put smaller tools in plastic bins on shelves up high on side walls and store them with extra oil, etc.
* I like a TV/computer combo in the garage for looking stuff up and listening to music. Where can you see it best? Put power there.
* I have 8' doors and RJOs. I love both. I wish I had AC.
* I don't have any water in mine, and wish I did. Primarily for a sink and fridge. See also, floor drain.

Etc. Basically what I am saying is think about how YOU are going to use it and IMO preserve the option of having bigger cars in there.

 

[AZ Pete]

re: man door. I would not be without mine, it provides direct access to the back yard without opening an overhead door or yard gate. I use mine more than the double door on our garage, and do not miss the 40" of available wall space.

Good catch on the lack of a sink, that is another item that we use very often.

 

[Moman01]

Deeper, let the architect talk me into shortening mine to 22’ and would not do it again.

 

[wssix99]

24 foot would probably be doable. A 19' suburban is under 19 foot long, so add in a 2 foot deep workbench and theres still just enough room to walk behind there. Not optimal but definitely doable. It gets better with the smaller your vehicle is as well

I don't think this depth works well with a 2 post lift. It's way too shallow.

The 2 poster could be situated in a place that will fit a balanced large truck, but when the car goes on, it could be in a really odd place (or it may not even fit within the walls) because it's center of gravity is off. For a garage of this size - you'd end up with a 4 post lift, almost definitely.

I would also shuffled the garage doors around. Put the single door in the repair bay and have that next to the floor space where the working area will be.

 

[Leevon]

In the process of a similar garage build (check my thread in Gallery if you want). A few "add-ons" if you will include: floor drain, sub-panel for electric, sink rough-in, high lift doors, jackshaft openers, high ceilings, power over lifts, high outlets on walls, R19 doors, full insulation, extra blocking in certain places.

I wonder if you'd be happier with (2) 16' doors?

 

[nzjkb5]

I would go a little deeper if possible, also. I have 24' now, and with a '67 Firebird project and tool boxes in front of it, it is tight. Had to roll the tool boxes out of the way to pull the engine, and it was still a pain. Also, I would NOT do away with the door to the back yard. Mine gets used every day, and I go weeks (months?) without raising a garage door (we can't park inside, too many tools/car parts/Firebird project in our 1-3/4 car garage).

 

[yeldogt]

In the process of a similar garage build (check my thread in Gallery if you want). A few "add-ons" if you will include: floor drain, sub-panel for electric, sink rough-in, high lift doors, jackshaft openers, high ceilings, power over lifts, high outlets on walls, R19 doors, full insulation, extra blocking in certain places.

I wonder if you'd be happier with (2) 16' doors?

Somehow I don't think that fits into the optimize the space .... or inexpensive. I bet the OP is limited in what he can manipulate within the design .. or spend.

He does mention the possibility of future detached building

 

[_Stang_]

I have a similar 3 car attached although I'm only 30' wide. With my home floor plan the garage ended up being 22' deep on 2 bays amd 25' deep on 1 bay. The extra 3' is a huge difference. I can park my crew cab RAM (short bed) on that side and still have room to work even with a workbench back there. I really wish I was that same depth all around.

Ditto x1000 percent on the man door. Mine opens out the back and is incredibly useful.

Ditto again on the sink. If you have a dog put in a nice big stainless one with sprayer for easy baths.

Also, have them give you the standard 1 light fixture per bay but add prewired boxes all around so you can easily add fixtures later.

Is that dead attic space above the garage? If so have them add a drop down ladder and frame out a subfloor for storage. I just spent way too long retrofitting that to my home after the fact. I did the stairs up front but figured I'd add the floor when I had time. Stupid.



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[Innovate1]

Garage sink would be easy opposite the kitchen sink but may need a little extra depth for it. If there is room for the sink you could also put benches, etc along that wall.

Subpanel in the garage if you can. If you are doing the electrical yourself the cost is minimal - otherwise it may get to be significant.

Noticed the bath door opened toward the toilet. Suggest it opens to the wall instead.

 

[_Stang_]

Good catch on the bathroom door, strange they would have it that way.

In the master bath I would highly recommend making the toilet area a water closet (with fan). The framing and door will be nothing in that area and you and your significant other will thank me later.

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[David Paul]

Just 2 things, move the walkout door to the back yard away from the corner as previously suggested. Mine is where yours is drawn, workbench along the wall comes 2 feet away from it, looking at the main house. It’s awkward to use the door, which I do often.
2nd item is to make sure the concrete pour for the floor is thick enough to support a two post lift. It least in the area it needs to be.

 

[billp603]

The 24' dimension is outside of walls so only 23' inside, if you can at least get 24' interior that will help a lot.
I'd move the man door about 30" to the left, that will give you better use of that corner and will allow for bench or cabinet along that back wall.
Also make sure the single door is at least 9' wide, 8'6" is a common builders size and I've replaced some side mirrors dealing with that in the other bay of my garage.

 

[lolaetype]

Yes, add a sink. I put in a "plastic" sink like you would find in a laundry room. If I were doing it again I'd go with stainless steel. Something like this.

https://www.toolots.com/hsa-24-1-0.html


I'd consider adding a window on the side with the personnel door.



Outlets. You can't have enough outlets. I've put three on the side walls, and three on the back wall of my two car garage. I've also put a couple on the ceiling to power my hanging reel shop lights. Don't put all the outlets on the same breaker. And consider adding 220v if you plan anything other than light welding.


Lighting. I'd control the lights in the single bay with a separate switch from the 2 car bay. Separate switched lighting over the workbenches would also be nice. I also put a couple of outlets, controlled by the light switch in the ceiling. Glad I did because I had to add a couple of suspended LED shop lights near the side walls to get sufficient light between the cars and walls.

If you are still using land lines add a phone jack somewhere.

I put a ceiling fan in the middle of the garage.

Garage size? Depends on what you plan on doing in it and what kind of vehicles you own or expect to own. Mine's 20X20 and everything fits, but I also have space in the adjacent basement for the drill press, hydraulic press, tool storage and supplies storage.


Edit: If you are going to add a lift in the future make sure the ceiling is sufficiently high enough to accommodate one.

 

[flippin]

Definitely deeper, go as deep as your budget/permits allow. The cost is really negligible in grand scheme.

-walls and ceilings should be covered in steel

-mini split for HVAC, or at least spend the money to rough in the insulated copper.

-consider installing floor mount lights under the lift to illuminate the underside of your vehicle when on the hoist.

-forgot to check your location but pex for radiant is very inexpensive before you pour the slab. If you go that route be sure to install rigid foam (2") under the slab and around the outside of the wall.

-hot water for the garage hose

-if you add the height for a lift but don't need the height in the other bays, a mezzanine will add a ton of storage space.

- I find garage door track and the angle Iron supports very unsightly. As already mentioned be sure to install liftmaster 8500's for your openers. They really clean up the ceiling. Also replace the angle Iron track supports with a single post. I used posts for deck railings. Again the look is way "cleaner"

Hope this helps,
-Paul

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[Moosefire]

-forgot to check your location but pex for radiant is very inexpensive before you pour the slab. If you go that route be sure to install rigid foam (2") under the slab and around the outside of the wall.

Is it inexpensive? I haven't priced it out but I was always under the impression that it was much more expensive up front, including the foam and such...

Very nice write up though, lots of great stuff there

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[flippin]

Again everything is relative as it pertains to costs. Furthermore, value is a moving target based on your situation and in this instance your climate. Up here in the great white north, our lakes freeze in November and it'll be April before you can't safely walk across them. So radiant heat and the associated investment represents good value. In South Carolina, you may not need radiant heat but you will need A/C. The mini splits will provide more than enough heat I suspect.

-Paul

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[vrinner]

Everyone else has already said it but I'll say it too...go deeper.
My 3 car is 22' deep and once I put cabinets on the back side I have just enough room to get around the cars.

 

[3onthetree]

Once you flip the single door to the back you'll have the entire back wall for the "shop" next to your future lift. Because you've got a shallow length, you may want to inset the sink, like where the mudroom closet is.

You have a basic 3 car garage that is a lot bigger than most spec homes, so without stating any special equipment needs, it should be simple to "optimize" your equip/shop area to work well with the Bimmer. However, your house needs major "optimization" and you really should focus there. I hope you take this as constructive criticism, because I hate to see someone spend a couple hundred thousand on a house that will be compromising to live in and be difficult to sell down the road.

I assume you designed this yourself. It may be beneficial to search the interwebs for floor plans, there should be dozens similar to your layout, and most likely being designed by a professional they will actually meet code and not have design oddities and mis-proportioned rooms. Or take your drawings to an architect/designer to develop further.

 

[HotrodHR]

A couple of feet deeper for sure. Bump out the garage wall on front side of house a couple of feet. This will add interest to front side of the house and more room inside. I would move the walk out door to the overhead door side.

I'm ok with the way the overhead doors are; single toward front and double toward the rear; with walk out next. I'm assuming if there's a detached in the future that you could extend the driveway into the backyard straight to the front of the detached (my house is set up this way). If I can find an image of lot plans at work tomorrow I'll post it.

 

[zacm829]

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. The floor plan I posted was a basic rough layout before we fixed some of the issues pointed out with the rest of the house. We changed the door around to not open onto the toilet, added a water closet door (per the wife's request!) and I believe we will be going with a claw foot or at least rectangular tub to free up space in the master bath. We also have a meeting with the builder to have a bump out on the back of the house to extend the dining area and rework(enlarge) the kitchen.

This is a custom home build so the only thing holding me back is cost. Lots of great suggestions. I'm hoping we can make 26' in length work, I really like the man door to the backyard but will be moving it further down the wall and a symmetrical window. The garage will have 12ft ceilings and proper concrete for lift.

A large air compressor will come later as well as a minisplit unit, I'll talk with the builder about roughing in these later addons. Definitely going with a sink, 8500 openers, separate sub panel with 220v lots of outlets and lighting or at least wired for it.
Yes above the garage is empty attic space so will absolutely have a drop stairs and storage above. Great point.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. We are looking forward to getting this started. I know I've seen it before and will search again, but what program is used for modeling a garage layout? cabinets, sink, lift with the dimensions of your shop?

Keep the comments coming!

 

[yeldogt]

Wow, thanks for all the great suggestions. The floor plan I posted was a basic rough layout before we fixed some of the issues pointed out with the rest of the house. We changed the door around to not open onto the toilet, added a water closet door (per the wife's request!) and I believe we will be going with a claw foot or at least rectangular tub to free up space in the master bath. We also have a meeting with the builder to have a bump out on the back of the house to extend the dining area and rework(enlarge) the kitchen.

This is a custom home build so the only thing holding me back is cost. Lots of great suggestions. I'm hoping we can make 26' in length work, I really like the man door to the backyard but will be moving it further down the wall and a symmetrical window. The garage will have 12ft ceilings and proper concrete for lift.

A large air compressor will come later as well as a minisplit unit, I'll talk with the builder about roughing in these later addons. Definitely going with a sink, 8500 openers, separate sub panel with 220v lots of outlets and lighting or at least wired for it.
Yes above the garage is empty attic space so will absolutely have a drop stairs and storage above. Great point.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. We are looking forward to getting this started. I know I've seen it before and will search again, but what program is used for modeling a garage layout? cabinets, sink, lift with the dimensions of your shop?

Keep the comments coming!

When you say custom ..... what's that? Is this in a development ? land that you are developing ? Who made up the design? If it;s a development ... have you waled the design?

I have built a bunch of houses -- some small weekend places ... and I have to tell you that some of the areas you have mapped out are small ... it's an odd layout with a lot of doors?

 

[RBekk66]

just like everyone else is saying, 23-24' is tight. mine is 40 x 30 and the 30 is great but wish i went a little wider. i store my atv and tractor on one side of the third bay and it works but its tight.
*i put outlets everywhere and still not enough. put them higher than 4' so if you have sheetrock or lumber stack on the floor you can access the outlets easily.

*ELECTRIC NEEDS plan this carefully. i put an 80 amp subpanel in mine. i planed on a welder even though i dont weld. i have the 30 amp 220-240 wiring in place for a lift which i just ordered. i put a plug in the ceiling for the block heater on my diesel.

*2 POST LIFT i didnt plan perfectly for this but i did ok. i have 12' ceilings which really limits my choices for a 2 post. most of the better ones are around 12' or higher. i didnt want a maxjack, atlas, or scissor lift. i would have been ok with a bendpack but it wouldnt fit cleanly. i really didnt have the budget for a rotary but thats what i went with. its just under 12' and almost a $1000 more than my budget but now i have a nice , safe lift. i have a 3 bay and the middle bay has the high door . it goes up to the ceiling and thats the bay getting the lift. my doors are all matching 9 wide by 8 high. my floors are 5-6" 4000 psi. my work bench and tools are against the back wall in the middle bay.

* i used 8' led strip lights in front, back and side of every bay. perfect

* i have a loft upstairs for storage only with wrap around stairs in the back left corner. under the first landing, i have my portable generator and horizontal air compressor.

* i bought brand new steel cabinets from sears. no plastic or wood.

* i planned 2 man doors . one on each side but only did one, closest to the house. i'm happy with this because any door is going to take up valuable floor and wall space.

* SINK i wanted a sink but ended up not doing it. i wanted the space for other stuff and it gets cold here so i didnt want to deal with frozen pipes if not drained right

* i put an 80k btu propane hot air heater in the back right corner. great. and i put a automatic fan in the loft to **** out the heat and draw air in downstairs if needed. great

* i used 2x6 framing and insulated it tight. sheetrock and painted everything. clean

good luck with yours, just remember, after its done, its too late to change most things

 

[zacm829]

We own the lot and we are using a custom home builder to complete the house. No hoa just a covanance. Some of the doors have been eliminated in the revision (closet from garage entry had become a *****). Wife really wanted the guest bedroom direct access to the bathroom.

Any pointers you can give me on overall design? I believe the builder was trying to keep this in a small footprint for cost savings. I definitely don't want to regret this build so thanks for pointing it out.

 

[lolaetype]

j

* i used 2x6 framing and insulated it tight. sheetrock and painted everything. clean

That reminds me of another thing. If you know where you are going to be hanging shelves, cabinets and brackets on the walls you will want to put blocking behind the sheetrock to carry the load.

 

[toyotadriver]

I don't have specific comments on your floor plan but so have a comment on insulation. Since you plan to be in this home for a long time, over insulate it. After having it, I'm a HUGE fan of exterior rigid foam insulation. Keep the framing warm (or cool) and the house stays MUCH more comfortable. Pay the extra money. Put in a cheaper HVAC system if necessary. Insulation will pay for the life of the home. When we built our house, we over insulated it. I calculated a payback time of 3 years. We've been in the house for 3 years now and the house utility bills are at least 50-75% lower than similar size new houses in the area.

 

[cgall]

I have a similar 3-car, with the workbench area on the single door side. Mine is only 21' deep, as it is a 3000sf house and the footprint had limitations. It has worked out fine, my primary rule is that at the end of the day, there must be 3 cars in the garage.

 

[jarhead]

I agree with swapping the door.

Scissor trusses if possible