Building on a slope

[rkaiser58]

Hey guys. I just joined, and man, there is a lot of good stuff here. I spent hours in the gallery alone. Here is my issue. I have 3 acres, of which only one is accessible to me. The rest is at the bottom of a steep hill. So, in an attempt to at minimum make the backyard accessible, I decided to use boulders on the property to retain everything and give me a 150X80 level area for the kids, then have a ramp of dirt going down. Problem is, The ramp would be too steep. The total drop is over 18 feet. I'll try to attach pics to aid you in the visual.

One suggestion was to build a garage at the bottom of the hill, making one wall of the garage all concrete to retain the fill, then wrap the ramp around and down to the garage making it a much smoother transition. I am usually pretty good at visualizing, but was wondering if anyone has done this before.

Please let me know, and if you have pics that would be great.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[rkaiser58]

Here is a pic from the yard

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Ultgar just did a garage where the driveway loops around and down to an underground garage.

I can see you doing something similar with a garage built into that slope, but it will require some significant earthwork.

 

[kbs2244]

That would be a nice project!
How are your winters in Flemington?
Long, bending, sloping drivways can be a challange with snow.

 

[rkaiser58]

The winters are not too bad. We do get ice storms though. Attached are two renderings. One from before taken by satellite and the other just a photoshop idea.

 

[rkaiser58]

I have visited the Ultimate Garage Site, and Steve's work is awesome. I can't even imagine the cost to do something like the house on a slope he has here, but one can dream

I'd be willing to do a lot of the work myself with my 763 Bobcat. I just can't get anything down there. Its funny, I may have to build the foundation, put up the wall which will retain the hill, push the fill dirt down, and throw some road stone down just to get equipment down there to work effectively.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

What size building are you planning? And where will it be in relation to the house? How many levels? Will there be two levels of garage, one at driveway grade and one below?

 

[kbs2244]

Unless you are trying to hide it from view so it doesn’t block the scenery from the deck, I like Walsh’s idea of a basement. I am sure you have seen the barns built into a hillside that way.
It shouldn’t be too hard to incorporate a open space in the floor so you have a quick oil change type “pit” to get to the underside of a car also. That would save you the cost of a lift down the road.

 

[rkaiser58]

The township is saying I can not exceed 1200 sqft. but I was thinking if I made it two levels, and the bottom level was considered half exposed foundation, I might be able to get away with it. Last night I was thinking, a 12' high 30X40 foundation where the garage would actually be (using that to partial retain second tier in the photo), and then a top level which is accessible from the second tier of my slope would be a great way to go (30X40-9'H). Then I could have a loft/sitting area, or even a light equipment area overlooking the garage below. It would allow for a lift as well. The garage would be approximately 18' lower then the house and 50'+ back and 20-30' offset from the center of the house. For reference, the garage attached to the house is 22X33 (it has the two dormers on it).

 

[rkaiser58]

kbs224, I like Welsh's idea, and even your add of an oil change area on the top floor. Just not sure what the benefits would be either way when you compare the expense of a lift to the expense of a seond floor built to support the weight of the car, etc. Great ideas though guys, thanks so much. Does anyone have any pics of similar type construction? Ultgar has sent me a couple, and I checked out his posts. Great stuff!

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Pits have serious safety hazards that outweigh the cost of a lift. But that's for another thread.

Here's what I was thinking. The problems with it are cost, size/zoning/tax issues, and slope of the drive.

Also, I don't like the forward facing garage doors...but the same structure could be flipped around parallel to the attached garage with the sloping drive running behind it down and around to the back.

 

[rkaiser58]

Mr. Welsh, That is a great pic, you must work with photoshop too. One of the reasons why the garage was to be built at the lower yard was to allow access to the remaining two acres I can't reach at present. So if I can do that without a great need for multiple retaining walls, its definitely a great option. I'd also have to consider the materials used if its visible from the street, as I currently have brick facing on the house.

I am asking the zoning board for any information/restrcitions my lot may have.

 

[rkaiser58]

What do you think of this?

 

[boiler7904]

What do you think of this?

I like it.

 

[idubvdub]

Why not?

Every man wants a bat cave, if you can't have a bat cave why not an under ground tunnel?

 

[idubvdub]

Why not?

Every man wants a bat cave, if you can't have a bat cave why not an under ground tunnel?

 

[rkaiser58]

Maybe an elevator instead of the staircase? Too funny man. I can't even hope to have anything like what Ultgar posted with the huge museum under that huge home.

 

[HOTFR8]

I had to excavate my Shed site.

See the enclosed car trailer at the far end. Well the roof on that is just above ground level and the fence post you can see at the top front of the trailer is a better indication of depth as that is ground level.
You can also see where the photo was taken from is on the slope and looking down from the drive way up to my house.

 

[kbs2244]

A friend of mine just built his retirement home on the last lot around a lake. It was the last lot because it dropped about 12 feet from street level to water level.
His 24 deep garage is at street level with spancrete planks running front to back covered by a 2 inch finish coat as a floor.
They did pour a concrete supporting wall for the inside ends of the spancrete.
Because it has no windows he uses the under the garage space just for storage, but it would make a great shop or whatever room. It opens onto the living space which is on the lower level.

 

[rkaiser58]

That sounds interesting. Would he be able to post some pics? Spancrete, is that ridiculously expensive?

 

[boiler7904]

Part of it will depend on how far you are from a plant. If you're close to NYC or Philly, you should have a few options for Spancrete or precast concrete planks as they're also known.

A friend of my in-laws is a custom homebuilder. He built a new house for himself and to use as a model for his customers on a sloped lot about 4 years ago. By the time he dug the hole for the attached 3 car garage, he was within a couple truckloads of material of having a 36x24 room under the garage. Instead of doing the room under the garage, he backfilled with sand but got a price after the fact to put in Spancrete for the garage floor. I want to say it would have been a couple of thousand dollar upgrade to do the Spancrete. Being in the business that he's in, he wished that he'd have done the research and put the Spancrete in while he had the chance just to have it as something to show customers as an option.

 

[idubvdub]

Kinda got me curious, some kinda living space below the garage rec. room what have you? Wouldn't sound transfer from the garage into the quarters below? That being said I am not up to date with the latest construction technology. Interesting thread btw.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

Of the last 3 suspended slab garages I've seen built, only one used Spancrete.

I have no idea what the price difference might be, but as with all precast transportation costs are a big factor so local prices might vary substantially.

[edit] The one that did use Spancrete was in Wisconsin (Spancrete's home state).

 

[kbs2244]

PICS wouldn’t show much.
From the outside it looks like any other house and the garage looks like any subdivision garage.
The room underneath just is an unfinished basement. The only thing different is the ceiling is concrete not wood.
The room is real quiet, but then the Buick doesn’t make much noise.
He is way north in Illinois. About 10 miles from the Wisc line.
I have no idea what the cost difference would be since there was no other option for him.
It was do it this way or don’t do it at all.

 

[rkaiser58]

All of the input is really starting to put the plans in motion. Thanks guys! I will be getting plans together for the township and see how they butcher them I'll keep you posted. Any more ideas or suggestions, keep them coming....always looking for ideas.

 

[rkaiser58]

Here is the zoning information for the garage:
"Detached garages can not exceed 20' in height, limited in size to no larger then 1000 sq. ft., and can not house more then 3 vehicles."

I am assuming that foundation height, and roof height are accounted in the 20' so I am not sure my drawing earlier in this thread will be approved. Has anyone else run into this issue?

 

[kbs2244]

Time to go in and talk to them.
Bring PICS and drawings.
If you build it into the hill, is the 20 feet from the high side dirt or from the low side dirt.
These kind of restrictions most often are for looks. So if it looks low from the street you may be OK to go 2 story with each 10 feet. (Or 12 feet and 8 feet.)

 

[Dustoff 35]

My garage is built into the slope with the back of the foundation acting as a retaining wall.

The grade slopes about 7 feet or so from the back of the garage to the front corner.

My dimensions are 30'deep x 44'wide, close to what you are proposing. There are more foundation pics in my build thread should you care to check it out.

 

[rkaiser58]

WOW, I just picked up a set of plans that are very similar to your pics! This is GREAT! I am going to get some drawings together and check with the township. If they agree, I will get an architect and I am on my way. I will definitely check out your build pics, thats is an awesome garage.

 

[kbs2244]

Dustoff:
Do you have any PICS from the uphill side?
These might let him show that what he wants to do will not be very "ugly" from the street.
Kind of a "stealth" garage.

 

[rkaiser58]

Okay, this is really stretching my imagination here...

The front view will be level with the backyard, and the driveway will slope in front of the structure and wrap around it on the left side of the rear view photo.

Pretty elaborate, more then I expected, but the wife fell in love with it, until I told her no girls allowed.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Any chance of adding fill to the lower sites. A neighbor of mine added 60x40 of fill 0' to 12' deep for free. He just found a local contractor that was working close to his house. The contractor even supplied the bulldozer to spread an compact it on his property. The contractor said he saved three day's in site work because he was so much closer then the dump he would have had to take it to.

Glen

PS Have a crane lift your equipment to the lower property.
________
extreme vaporizer

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Also how about using a lift to get cars to the second level. Kind of like a elevator. Drive in on the first floor. Lower the car to the second level.
________
vaporizer

 

[kbs2244]

WOW!
I guess that qualifies as a stealth garage.
If you have the budget, go for it.
I would go with double wide front doors though. After all it is a garage and I am assuming some big stuff may end up in the upper floor.
Big doors help when moving.

 

[rkaiser58]

The drawing is not 100% accurate, I will probably have a large french door on the front instead of the two windows and single door. Chances are I will be putting my motorcycles and Lawn mower in the top area, with a loft overlooking the garage below. This way I could get a lift in there if the township gives me flack over the height. I might consider the spancrete in the upper floor as well, which would alleviate any weight concerns for using the top floor. I also need shelving and storage for yard equipment and everything else.

Not sure about the elevator/lift from one floor to the other, but it would be pretty cool. Maybe even getting a wide 4 glass door bi-fold(quad fold? ) so I maintain the stealth garage approach. I have a significant amount of fill dirt already, if I can get the footing and foundation done by a pro with the big equipment. Then the slope down will become the driveway with the other equipment, etc.

It's funny, I have a few pallets of brick left over from my house being built, and when I found this design, matching the windows as well as the hip roof of the house, it just made sense. Hopefully I don't break the bank on this one. If it is too much, I will revert to the gable/dormer model to match the existing garage at minimum.

I'll be sure to post updates and build information as the project progresses.

 

[PhantomEB]

I would love the opportunity to build into a slope, really make my dreams of a workcave much more realistic!! I have always wanted a 26 w, 30 deep 10 high sunk into a hillside with the work area pretty much all surrounded by earth. Keeps heat well during winter, keeps cool during summer and noise.. what noise? Its an extra insulation factor!

 

[kbs2244]

This will be fun to watch.
Good luck,
and keep us posted.

 

[Bevis]

Yes, this one will be fun to watch, and keep the pics coming when you do start it.

Years ago when I lived in Alabama. I had a house that sat on a hill, and a garage was built below the house closer to the road on the low side of the hill. I had constructed an underground walkway to it, approx 30 - 50 yrds long, and about 8 feet wide. Upon finally selling the place, the new buyer was surprised when I stopped by to show him the hidded hallway.

 

[rkaiser58]

Here is what the pictures are of the yard as of today May 18th, 2008
Top Two Retaining Walls
All Three Walls
The Height Issue
Ground Zero

In the last shot, I am at the base of the slope. As you can see, the top wall is no longer visible. I am roughly 18-20 feet below the level of my walkout basement threshold.

I have an excavator friend of mine coming today to take a look and see if the dream is at all possible. I am also sending preliminary drawings to the township for review prior to getting the drawings done.

 

[Dustoff 35]

rkaiser58,
Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I have been out of town on an Outer Banks fishing trip Just got back today.

I don't have any shots of the backside of my garage, I'll have to go out and take some. The backside certainly isn't as pretty as the front, but then I'm not to concerned with the neighbors' view.