Building Stairs!

[S2X01]

Let me start with an introduction. My name is Stu. Originally from Flint, Michigan. Now residing in beautiful Denver, Colorado.

We just moved into our new house....and my new garage is HUGE(to me anyways.) It's a 23 x 23 block built garage, with wood trusses creating an enormous amount of attic space.

Here's where my question comes in.
I've been plotting and scheeming, and figured out where the best spot to put a staircase is. It would have to be on an outside wall, running north to south. My problem is, the joists above me run east to west. In order to cut an effective opening, I feel I would be compromising a great deal of structural integrity. What might I be able to do to keep my existing ceiling from caving in?

Thanks in advance! Looking forward to learning a LOT!

Stu

 

[JKgrizzly]

Build a platform in the corner and use that to turn the stairs. The bottom can be north/south and the top east/west. You can use the underneath for storage. I personally wouldn't cut the truss.

 

[BPJOOP93]

why not an attic ladder?

 

[Zeke]

Hey Stu. welcome!

I'm a carpenter so I can see what you're up against. In order to cut an opening for your stairs, it will be nearly as long as the run of the stairs at 8'. Higher and you will save on the opening length.

You will have to install a beam to head off the cut joists and if not the full length of the E to W, you will also have to double up or triple the joists you hang the beam from. It's best to look at some engineering charts to size everything up.

Even it you turn the star at a landing as JK says, you still need 7' of clearance at the opening off the nose of a tread. IOW, you don't want to hit your head every time.

Stairs with a landing will affect fewer joists, but will still be a big hole. If you can do it this way, there will be slightly less engineering, but you still need to draw this up and have someone look at it or find typical framing situations on the Net.

Whoops, I just re-read and saw that the "joists" may be the bottom chord of the trusses.
Too complicated for me to explain on a keyboard. Sorry.

Still, welcome. Someone here will figure it out.

 

[bad_idea]

vertical ladder bolted to wall. i-beam mounted above 'access hole' with a trolley mounted chainfall. next question is: how much weight can the trusses support? i agree with others, i wouldn't cut the trusses. i prefer a vertical ladder for space savings, and a chainfall for easy lifting. my wife loves watching things 'disappear' into the attic as i hoist them up.

 

[S2X01]

What if I was to use 2x4 or 4x4 and build a wall the length of the opening to support the joists? I have considered attic ladders and a vertical ladder....but I really want the accessibility and inviting-ness of an actual staircase. Most likely...up there will end up being the "dude-room". I just like the idea of an actual stairway.......

 

[ddawg16]

How about spirial? Takes up a lot less space.

You can see more pics clicking on the link in my sig.

 

[Zeke]

You can definitely use a wall under for support and build a stairwell. You will have to still do a little engineering to tie the bottom cords. They aren't designed to be cut. However, you will be slightly increasing the load capacity of the attic space. Slightly.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

If you truly have trusses, you won't be having any "dude-room" unless they are "attic trusses". And if they are attic trusses then you would already have a stair access.
So, if they look like any of those in the attachment except the one previously mentioned you'd probably have to do a tear-off and rebuild with joists and rafters.

And some pics would really help- everyone.

 

[S2X01]

Here's what I'm workin with.

This is the wall I want to put the stairs on. Pardon the mess....we just moved. The "joists" in question run away from me in this picture.

And here's what I'm working with upstairs.....the "joists" again...go away from me

 

[Tbucit]

From the pictures and only from what I see you don't have trusses but the roof is a framed structure. That said the firist thing I would do is replace the angled supports with a full lenght knee wall to carry the roof. This will give you a little more room up there. Then depending if the ceiling joist is the right size I would build a wall on the ground floor to support the joist then remove the section of the joist between the new wall and the outside wall and build the stair in between the two. This is assuming that the stair will enter the attic from the gable end.
Just some thoughts
Randall

 

[S2X01]

Perfect! This is what I thought.....but I wasn't positive. It doesn't help that my lack of terminology prevents me from fully expressing ideas.......oh well.

Well this is exciting to hear then! Let me follow up with a few more questions. My support wall downstairs...can I just frame that with 2x4s? Also...how far to the outsides could I build those knee walls upstairs? Will 2x4 suffice up there also?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Addrock]

I went on the outside it saved precious inside space.

 

[Tbucit]

2 x 4 should be fine for the stair wall. I would think about making it "L" shaped and using under it for storage. Upstairs you may could use 2 x 4s but I would go with 2 x 6s as I usally overbuild anyway.
Randall

 

[bad_idea]

i would highly recommend calling in an engineer before you cut anything.

 

[Tbucit]

While there is no problem calling in an engineer to look at this be aware that the rest of your building may not be to "his" standard. Engineering has put a roof over my head and food on my table for many years and sometimes you can't build on some other persons work. If you look at the build of DDawg he has a perfect picture of heading off an upper floor with out a wall. This would be expanded if you built a stair case. By heading the joist off and building a support wall under that section of the joist you will hold the upstairs without a problem. Because you have a concrete block structure the roof and gable are not holding the wall.
On the attic space from your picture you can see how the builder used a 2 X running perpendicular to the joist to support the braces for the rafters. This method should be expanded using 2 X 6 or 2 X 8 in between the existing material to support a new bottom plate running parallel to the joist. This can be done without removing the existing braces. After the plate is installed obtain the angle from the existing upper plate and install 2 X 6 on 16 inch centers plumb to your new bottom plate. After this new wall is installed you can remove the original braces. This method will reduce your headroom by under 2 inches. And if any of this scares you, Addrock has a good solution with out doing any cutting to you ceiling joist.

Randall

 

[S2X01]

On a staircase 30" wide, using 2x10 runners, can I use 2 stringers? Or go with 3?

 

[mtne]

I'd go exterior if possible, that's a lot of space to loose in a smallish garage............

What part of town you in?

 

[S2X01]

My lack of faith in the general public. I'm from a not so nice town in the US. I prefer the "out of sight...out of mind" approach. That plus my budget both prevent exterior stairs. I'm over in wheat ridge by 44th and Wadsworth

 

[mtne]

Well, I'm mostly from back east and Denver metro is fairly tame in my opinion. I'm down in the barrio of old SW Denver. Tame for what is often considered a "bad" area. I love it here. I've a good friend not far from you at 38th and Kipling.

 

[S2X01]

Got a good start today. Time to go get 2x4s and 2x10s!!

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Granted it a garage; but, if you were to sale- here's a few things to keep in mind.
IRC codes for stairs (simplified)
Landings- min. of 36" (9sq/ft) at the top or bottom
Headroom- 6'-8" (from the nosing edge)
Stair width- 36" min.
Rise and Run- 7-3/4" max- 10" min.
Max. spacing between stringers- 2'-11"
Continuous handrail from top to bottom.

And the window that's "in your face" at the stairs has to be tempered. Any fenestration that falls within the 5'hX5'w rule has to be tempered.

Your framing for the floor system should look something like this-

 

[S2X01]

Got my 2x4s yesterday.....and a steal! 31 8 foot 2x4s for $24!!

Anyways....gonna build my wall today or tomorrrow to support the ceiling.
Can I just build a standard 16" centers stud wall? Or should I double up the header and the bottom 2x4?

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[S2X01]

Also.....thoughts on quick bolts to hold it to the floor?

 

[RotoRoss]

Got a good start today. Time to go get 2x4s and 2x10s!!

pic is foreshortened. Is there another window along wall?. Can stair be reversed?. seems to me 4 issues:
1. first riser should be at garage door opening. when stair is enclosed it will block much of light from window reducing illumination at far end of garage,window should be under staircase to allow most of light to shine into middle of garage
2., IT will be very difficult to turn the corner and start to carry items up at inside corner (PITA) of stair especially refrigerator , sofa , tv and larger items especially with hand cart (furniture, mattresses, etc.) better to start at overhead door opening .
3. Cabinet at bottom of staircase has to go... trip hazard or head banger and claustrophobic .
4, I don't see enough head clearance allowance (opening not established or not peeled back yet) and looks like a lot of joists need to be boxed in in order to carry load and joists sistered up across full width of garage to provide clearance looks problematic.
Good luck

 

[S2X01]

okay....been a while, but I'm back with updates.

The staircase is built, my load wall is built, and i have access upstairs. Time to start adding some flooring!!!
The existing joists are a 16" centers. Can I get away with using a 1/2" OSB for flooring?
Plywood is substantially more expensive, and upstairs will be storage for the most part. I can't see more than 1 or 2 people up there at a time.

 

[baartman]

Highly recommend the plywood. The OSB may deteriorate in humid conditions, or if something in your storage spills/leaks, the chips may start to come up and catch on things etc. I would even use 5/8 ply.