building without permit

[lilredex]

That is only a small part of the answer.

Permits and the subsequent inspections ensure that there are no ongoing hazards. All the codes are based on experience gained from failures.

If you are happy repeating the mistakes of the past don't do it right. Be prepared for real problems or legal problems in the future.

These guys ignored all and paid the price..

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...l_80000_addition_likely_to_be_demolished.html

 

[SHOCheapRacing]

I finished my basement 10 years ago and talked to some in insurance. I was adding a lot of outlets/lights and did not want to give the insurance company a way to deny any claims for a fire or water damage. It was not worth the risk and my house taxes did not really go up even in NJ.

The house inspector for the new buyer did ask for my permits and did look it up. The town inspector was also a pain, looking for all the inspections on the finished basement.

 

[Zeke]

I've installed 1000's of windows and doors. In my city if you replace windows they want a permit. Understood as there are requirements in the code for tempered glass in many areas as well as fire egress. These things are overlooked all the time. I get it right with or w/o an inspection. In fact, most of the time the inspector doesn't check all that stuff.

I was installing a patio door with a new header and had a permit. Here we have to break stucco out 6 inches! from the opening when modifying the wall or even taking out the old frame and installing a complete window. This of course puts you out in the stud bay with nothing to nail the flashing to and nothing to back up chipping the plaster. Might as well go to the next stud which can be more than a foot away. That's a big and unnecessary patch.

So I broke out 6" on 2 sides but at the building's corner there is a downspout and plenty of studs. So I broke to the downspout, about 4 inches, and I can plaster that neatly. The inspector said all was well except for the 2" under the DS. I had to take that down and come closer to the building corner for his damn two inches.

At that point I said **** all inspectors whether I get along with them or not.

A good friend of mine is a new construction plumber. He always makes sure one of his test caps leaks so the inspector can write him up. One correction visit is free and they have to come back after he replaces a 50 cent part. The point is the inspectors seem to find a need to find something wrong. He gladly obliges. Inspectors don't like to come out a 3rd time even if there is a charge. They don't see that money, it's just another drive to the job.

Works like a charm. If wonder if they ever catch on.

You know what they say, judges are lawyers that couldn't make it and inspectors are contractors that couldn't make it.

 

[Zeke]

BTW, the downspout was old and soldered tight. Otherwise I would have not minded so much.

 

[DekeT]

Most codes are written to provide for regular maintenance without need of permits. This is of course based entirely where you live. It takes all of 2 minutes to find this information regarding your specific requirements and allowances from your local jurisdiction web site. I am amazed at how little homework people are willing to do to discover the facts of their situation. Instead it's ask some anonymous and accountable voices out their on the webs about what I should do.

 

[Andybull]

The toughest building inspectors I ever encountered were in the Florida Keys. Once they saw that I overbuilt (built it better, stronger), they eased up.
This was a 3rd floor addition over the complete footprint. I rebuilt the existing 2nd floor, without a permit, before applying for the 3rd, in order to avoid their BS.

 

[volleyball]

Most codes are written to provide for regular maintenance without need of permits. This is of course based entirely where you live. It takes all of 2 minutes to find this information regarding your specific requirements and allowances from your local jurisdiction web site. I am amazed at how little homework people are willing to do to discover the facts of their situation. Instead it's ask some anonymous and accountable voices out their on the webs about what I should do.

Nice you think all jurisdictions have the codes laid out online in a recoverable format. I've been told something was wrong and yet even they cannot find anywhere to back that up.

 

[Jere]

I reroofed the garage without one, i did it over about two months. Also tore the front porch up and rebuilt that. No problems at least with the city. The detremining factor came after i looked up the the cost of the permit verse the fines. The first time fine was 50 bucks vs a couple hundred for the inspector and permit. Plus the inspectors take months to show up around here.

I suggest looking up the consequences of the work you want to do, and weigh them out.

 

[ozyborn]

After kicking the city "inspectors" off my dad's property when we were completely gutting and remodeling the home. I do not deal with them at all now. They bitched because the garage was too sturdy, they bitched because we used oversized wire on every circuit. (12 gauge for 15 amp circuits for instance) , they bitched because a foot was too deep and broad, the foundation wall to overbuilt. Kicked them off and told them to go to hell. Fast forward years later after dad passed. We sold the house with zero issues.

So yes, I tell them to go pound sand. Now I live just outside city limits and NOTHING they can do. County inspector knows me and just lets me be, He knows how I build

 

[pickles]

I am thinking of putting a home theater in my already finished basement. It would involve running two new dedicated 20 amp circuits (a job I would have an electrician do) and putting up about 15 feet of a nonstructural wall with a door. There would be some low voltage wiring too but I've looked and code says that no permit is needed for low voltage wiring. I have been debating getting a permit. Any advise?

 

[DekeT]

Nice you think all jurisdictions have the codes laid out online in a recoverable format. I've been told something was wrong and yet even they cannot find anywhere to back that up.

How ever did the world function before Al Gore invented the internet?

 

[traumadoc2b]

I finished our basement a couple years ago and pulled permits. The AHJ was easy to work with and had a couple of helpful corrections to my plans, like a lintel in the concrete block wall where I put in a window. I had no trouble with my inspections, with the exception of a couple simple things noted on the rough electrical. I fixed them and they came back out and passed me. It was nice to have the piece of mind of someone checking over my work, even if not nearly as thoroughly as myself, and in making sure there'd be no trouble selling or with insurance coverage later on. We did sell last year, and although I wasn't asked specifically about permits, I did inform the buyers during the process that we had done all the work and it had been inspected.

 

[dadsEH]

My SIL bought a house on 5 acres in the bush. Went to the council to get a permit for a steel shed...30x60.
They wanted to know the nature of the business to be conducted in same!
SIL had to convince them he just had a lot of toys to store. 6 months later...

Then the 80 yr old single garage next to the house got bulldozed for a new one....get a permit? Not a chance! Been there, got the t shirt!

 

[67carl]

I've done small jobs without a permit, such as installing a gable fan, ceiling fan, kitchen can lights, etc... and what worries me is all wiring has a manufacture date stamped on it. At some point I may have a big job done that would require a permit (or sell the house and have it inspected), at which point it would be discovered that work was done without a permit while I owned the house.

If the permit process and inspectors didn't make it so onerous I think the majority of people would go through the process.

 

[Richie Rich]

Where I live you are supposed to get a "building permit" to have a temporary storage container on your property (PODS or a sea container).
The clock starts ticking.
Within 6 months, you have to go in and file for a "removal permit" to have it hauled off.
IIRC it is about $250 for both permits.

Judging by the amount of them in my neighborhood, I am betting nobody does that.

My build will be a fully permitted "hobby building", not a garage or a shop. My neighbor (who has a 30x40 and is a GC) has given me a few tips.

 

[Norcal]

My shop will need a new roof soon, the People's Republic I live in wants $481 for a reroof permit, guess what? It ain't happening there is no value in their inspections strictly revenue. Someone gave a suggestion to add 10-12 feet to the front of the shop, not going to get one for that either...

But if you want to really have fun deal with OSHPD, they have jurisdiction in the State of California for healthcare facilities, their requirements are making the costs to install a $14,000 washer into a almost $50K job, including using 6 Hilti anchors at a cost of almost $3000.00 each (not a typo), not a item to screw up the installation of, permit to replace the vinyl floors in 5 bathrooms was 17 pages long, but part of that was the MSDS for the vinyl adhesive.

 

[Stevedore]

I've done work myself on houses that we've owned; had permits for some, but not all jobs. I've also had contractors do jobs, and at least one told me that I could get a permit or not. They didn't care, said the work would pass inspection anyway.

What annoys me about permits is that our current town, and maybe others as well, bases the permit fee on the cost of the job. So if I wanted an expensive top quality siding job for 2x the price of a cheap job, the permit costs me twice as much. Makes no sense to me, since they're still just inspecting the same amount of siding work. Which they never inspected anyway, by the way.

We needed a permit to replace our asphalt driveway a few years ago since we were adding to its size. The town office said it would take 2-3 weeks to review the application & issue the permit, but if I wanted to leave a blank check with them so they could fill in the permit fee, they'd review it the next day & issue the permit. I didn't understand the rationale for that, but I did it.

I understand the need for permits to insure safety, proper functioning, etc., but I think towns abuse the rules & turn the office into a profit center.

 

[Zeke]

Permit required here for R&R a toilet. Guess what?

 

[denis4x4]

In La Plata county (Durango), building inspectors spend 50% of their time working with owners, buyers and realtors to make sure that additions and out buildings done without permits are brought into compliance so that a sale can be completed. Unless you plan to die in your house and let your heirs deal with the complications, it's wise to get a permit for anything that adds value to your property. Over the years, I know of several deals that didn't go through due to a lack of permits.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I live in a township in Michigan that has proven itself to be rather sticky about permits. They have some rather strange rules, like no pole barns, (this was just recently lifted) no steel buildings, but simply want to be sure additions, add-ons, and garages look nice, as we are in what is called the residential tourist district, so much of what they are dealing with are resorts. On the flipside, the permits aren't cost prohibitive, and the inspectors and twp officials are supremely easy to get along with. They seem to just want to make sure you're not trying to erect a permanent tent or something.

 

[billspit]

If you don't get a permit you are setting yourself up for a bite in the ****.

Uncle Bob

Exactly. There is a reason the county GIS departments were set up. Those excellent aerial photographs they have are how they inspect things that aren't vsible from the road.

 

[volleyball]

The town office said it would take 2-3 weeks to review the application & issue the permit, but if I wanted to leave a blank check with them so they could fill in the permit fee, they'd review it the next day & issue the permit. I didn't understand the rationale for that, but I did it.

Did you check to see who cashed that check? Staff bonuses?

 

[sms1974]

My views on permits, inspections, and licensing...

For starters I am a licensed, bonded, and insured professional contractor... As a company we pull a permit for every job that requires one. In some towns they inspect every job and have a guy that is paid to find the jobs that are not permitted. In most cases the fine is double the permit cost. In several towns they will only inspect a job if you call and ask for an inspection. One locality I deal with has told once the permit is paid they don't follow up unless called...

Now my complaint about how the system works... I'm licensed,bonded, and insured and If I wasn't I could not get permits to do the jobs we do and all my jobs are inspected. Now a homeowner can get a permit to anything he wants to his own property, regardless of his knowledge or ability to do the job. I can tell you I have seen both ends of the spectrum the way over and the way under built additions...

My point is having a building permit or not does not mean the job will be done properly or improperly but having an inspection can assure that it is and that it's safe...

 

[Casey69]

no way i'd build without a permit. the "reward" isn't worth the risk. it's pretty obvious to everyone when you're adding on or putting up a new building. all it takes is one neighbor to snitch. plus, when building, you're framing, running electrical, roofing, & possibly plumbing; all of which normally requires a permit.

i doubt most people pull permits for swapping windows/doors, outlets, toilets, etc - the planning/permit dept would be overwhelmed.

 

[67carl]

My shop will need a new roof soon, the People's Republic I live in wants $481 for a reroof permit, guess what? It ain't happening there is no value in their inspections strictly revenue. Someone gave a suggestion to add 10-12 feet to the front of the shop, not going to get one for that either...

But if you want to really have fun deal with OSHPD, they have jurisdiction in the State of California for healthcare facilities, their requirements are making the costs to install a $14,000 washer into a almost $50K job, including using 6 Hilti anchors at a cost of almost $3000.00 each (not a typo), not a item to screw up the installation of, permit to replace the vinyl floors in 5 bathrooms was 17 pages long, but part of that was the MSDS for the vinyl adhesive.

Hey Norcal, wonder if we're in the same neck of the woods? I worked for a company that built and installed medical equipment in hospitals. Certain pieces had to have earthquake anchoring to prevent tipping or shifting during an earthquake. Not a bad idea really but it was a process.

We had issues with Hilti anchors at one facility in the Bay Area where they wouldn't hold. What a mess. Hilti said it was an issue with the concrete, hospital facilities said anchor was defective. That was not fun. Anyway, just commiserating on the joy that is hospital projects...

 

[dirtrich]

Most codes are written to provide for regular maintenance without need of permits. This is of course based entirely where you live. It takes all of 2 minutes to find this information regarding your specific requirements and allowances from your local jurisdiction web site. I am amazed at how little homework people are willing to do to discover the facts of their situation. Instead it's ask some anonymous and accountable voices out their on the webs about what I should do.

Thanks for providing the comic relief for me today!
Quite timely, as I've spent Five hours online already trying to find IN WRITING my city's code which states that I can build a large detached pergola (no roof--2x6's on edge) with no permit. I actually read all of it. That I could find.
A call to the city asking where these types of things are written and where can I find these documents proved to be a fruitless endeavour.
Has to refer me to somebody else, who will get back to me, ..........
You would think the front desk at the planning dept. would be able to tell you where the "rule book" is.
Actually, my contractor went down and talked to the head inspector who told him "no permit needed". But due to a past experience where what they SAID didn't line up with what they said LATER.... think I'd like to see it in writing before proceeding.

 

[Wanna Ride]

What annoys me about permits is that our current town, and maybe others as well, bases the permit fee on the cost of the job. So if I wanted an expensive top quality siding job for 2x the price of a cheap job, the permit costs me twice as much. Makes no sense to me, since they're still just inspecting the same amount of siding work.

Easy answer. Let me see if I can draw an analogy...

It's like you see in the mob movies. The hot dog vendor pays a "tax" to insure he doesn't mugged on his street corner, where he sells his dogs. That "tax", is much less than the "tax" that the guy down the block, who owns the big, fancy restaurant pays them to insure he doesn't have a "fire".

 

[volleyball]

But if they said they called you and told you no, you would not have a record of that.
You would actually have to apply for a permit and get writing stated none was needed.
And that still doesn't absolve you. If a commercial company employee told you something, then the company is bound by that, but not the government. The whole office could give you notorized documents and it still doesn't hold much water.

 

[info2x]

I've always looked at it as "cheap" insurance. My Dad knew of a few cases where they made the homeowners reopen walls or tear a whole project out because there was no permit.

I can tell you that whoever owned my house didn't pull permits for some things since they are so wrong it defies logic. That being said when I went back and fixed those issues I didn't pull permits. I took before and after pictures to make myself feel better.

I will be pulling permits for my bathroom remodel for the amount of money that I'm going to put into it I don't want anything or anyone to throw a stink later down the road.

 

[dirtrich]

Sheesh, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Isn't there supposed to be a rule book somewhere? I've asked contractors, scoured the internet, read up on multiple forums, nobody seems to know. Why should it be so difficult?