I have a 500 gallon oil tank left over from a quick- lube I closed. I want to put it in my 40x60 pole building and use it for gas in my DD and toys. I would vent the tank outside and pump it out with a 12v gas pump. Is anyone else doing anything like this (inside)? Any other thoughts or concerns?
Bulk gasoline tank inside?
- Thread starter Jtcrep
- Start date
dfiler2
Well-known member
Not inside but they use them on every farm around here, they are placed outside usually away from other buildings for fueling tractors, trucks and other equipment.
crewchief888
Well-known member
no not inside... 
wish you had posted your location so i can make sure i'm far far away......
wish you had posted your location so i can make sure i'm far far away......
Bondo
Well-known member
Ayuh,.... Bulk Gasoline, 'n bulk Propane are best left Outdoors,....
Their fumes sink, 'n fill closed areas,....
Their fumes sink, 'n fill closed areas,....
oldmxracer
Well-known member
Oh, God no way in hell would I want that inside !
Understand that is just My opinion !
Understand that is just My opinion !
Rookie2
Well-known member
BAD BAD Idea !
No one in there right mind would fill it !
Sorry But Noooooo !
If it is an equipment building that is open air, maybe.
No one in there right mind would fill it !
Sorry But Noooooo !
If it is an equipment building that is open air, maybe.
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themiller
Well-known member
Put it outside.
Automobilist
Well-known member
Minimum 50' from any buildings that humans will be in.
boiler7904
Well-known member
Aside from the potential fire hazard, possibility of losing insurance coverage, and likelyhood that it is against your zoning / fire safety code to store 500 gallons of gas inside, how quickly are you going through gas that a 500 gallon tank makes sense since it goes stale so quickly? That would be a 4-5 month supply for me. Doubt that you would save enough buying in bulk to be worth the headaches especially if you have winter / summer blends to contend with.
malibu101
Well-known member
I often weigh the positives and negatives of my ideas.
In this were my idea my scale would tip-
Positives- 0
Negatives- infinite
In this were my idea my scale would tip-
Positives- 0
Negatives- infinite
OP . . . these kind of questions . . . 500 gallon gas tank INSIDE . . .
. . . . .
. . . . . . . just HAS to have a LOCATION with your GJ name.
You in Bangladesh . . . . or . . . . . Mexico . . . . or ????
Update your GJ Profile with City/State/Country.
If however, rural USA then by all means you CAN have 500 gal gas storage tank OUTSIDE of building . . . . far enough away from building to prevent undue risk. You will have to meet local county/city codes for that gas storage tank.
Buddy of mine works at COOP and depending on your local rules, you might have to build some sort of containment system so that unattended leak of tank won't let that fuel run downhill and taint water supply in ANY fashion. Big farmers are having to build containment systems as they are deemed big enough . . . ie just like you'd see around above ground storage tank for oil well.
. . . . .
. . . . . . . just HAS to have a LOCATION with your GJ name.
You in Bangladesh . . . . or . . . . . Mexico . . . . or ????
Update your GJ Profile with City/State/Country.
If however, rural USA then by all means you CAN have 500 gal gas storage tank OUTSIDE of building . . . . far enough away from building to prevent undue risk. You will have to meet local county/city codes for that gas storage tank.
Buddy of mine works at COOP and depending on your local rules, you might have to build some sort of containment system so that unattended leak of tank won't let that fuel run downhill and taint water supply in ANY fashion. Big farmers are having to build containment systems as they are deemed big enough . . . ie just like you'd see around above ground storage tank for oil well.
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Stop in at your local fire dept there in Wi.... Ask them the question - I hope they aren't drinking coffee and be prepared for the WTF look you'll receive.
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finn
Well-known member
Do you have pcv air system plumbing too?
Jlbc212
Well-known member
You may need a permit or license for storage. Check with your local fire dept. You may also be required to built a retainment wall or dike around the tank. Spills that seep into the ground can be extremely expensive to clean up.
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info2x
Well-known member
No. Just no.
Have you ever seen the systems that most companies install when dealing with flammable/explosive items indoors? They are pretty intense and way more sophisticated then a tank, a vent and a 12V pump.
Have you ever seen the systems that most companies install when dealing with flammable/explosive items indoors? They are pretty intense and way more sophisticated then a tank, a vent and a 12V pump.
While it seems like an insane idea, there are many homes around here that have a 275 fuel oil tank in their basement.
However you are talking almost double the size and gasoline. Before you do all the work moving and setting it up, you might ask the local bulk fuel dealer if they will fill it and what the price discount is compared to buying it at the pump.
Would I do it? a 5 gal gas can or 20lb LP tank is one thing but a 500 gal tank of gasoline, no I'll pass not to mention coughing up the $1000 plus bill to fill it up. Buying 150 gallons of fuel oil is bad enough.
However you are talking almost double the size and gasoline. Before you do all the work moving and setting it up, you might ask the local bulk fuel dealer if they will fill it and what the price discount is compared to buying it at the pump.
Would I do it? a 5 gal gas can or 20lb LP tank is one thing but a 500 gal tank of gasoline, no I'll pass not to mention coughing up the $1000 plus bill to fill it up. Buying 150 gallons of fuel oil is bad enough.
1. I am located in Wisconin
2. I want to used a sealed tank that vents directly outside. I plan on filling the vehicles outside via a hose.
3. This is a cold storage building with no work performed inside or out.
4. We currently have diesel inside at another location (250 gallons) and we have no problems getting it filled.
5. I currently use about 150 gallons a month in the winter and 300 a month in the summer. The boat is thirsty! Next winter my usage mAy go back up if we get good snowmobiling snow.
6. Why is outside better? More chance of corrosion or contamination.
7. No discount on buying the fuel, but piece of mind that I have it incase of supply disruption. The tank is already mine so all this is going to cost me is the pump. I also like the idea of not having to pull the boat thru the gas station twice every weekend.
For those of you who think this is a bad idea, did you stop and think to try and overcome any safety issues or just jump on the it shouldn't be done wagon?
2. I want to used a sealed tank that vents directly outside. I plan on filling the vehicles outside via a hose.
3. This is a cold storage building with no work performed inside or out.
4. We currently have diesel inside at another location (250 gallons) and we have no problems getting it filled.
5. I currently use about 150 gallons a month in the winter and 300 a month in the summer. The boat is thirsty! Next winter my usage mAy go back up if we get good snowmobiling snow.
6. Why is outside better? More chance of corrosion or contamination.
7. No discount on buying the fuel, but piece of mind that I have it incase of supply disruption. The tank is already mine so all this is going to cost me is the pump. I also like the idea of not having to pull the boat thru the gas station twice every weekend.
For those of you who think this is a bad idea, did you stop and think to try and overcome any safety issues or just jump on the it shouldn't be done wagon?
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bwringer
Well-known member
You might want to check with your fuel supplier; I think they'd be able to point you in the right direction to make sure this is safe and legal in your area.
They will not be allowed to fill it for you without meeting some legal, environmental, and engineering requirements.
They will not be allowed to fill it for you without meeting some legal, environmental, and engineering requirements.
Something to consider not just for gasoline :
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html
Cypher
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html
Cypher
redmondjp
Well-known member
Here's what happened recently at one of the nearby auto scrapyards:
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/tacoma/2015/01/29/lakewood-explosion-fire/22553439/
The driver of the truck had just emptied one of the bulk storage waste gasoline tanks inside of this metal building and had started suctioning the second tank when vapors ignited (my guess is that a static discharge from the just-emptied tank ignited the blaze). That guy is a hero - he picked himself up after getting literally blown out of the building and had the presence of mind to get into the tanker truck and move it away from the fire so it didn't burn as well.
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the idea . . .
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/tacoma/2015/01/29/lakewood-explosion-fire/22553439/
The driver of the truck had just emptied one of the bulk storage waste gasoline tanks inside of this metal building and had started suctioning the second tank when vapors ignited (my guess is that a static discharge from the just-emptied tank ignited the blaze). That guy is a hero - he picked himself up after getting literally blown out of the building and had the presence of mind to get into the tanker truck and move it away from the fire so it didn't burn as well.
That pretty much sums up my feelings on the idea . . .
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
1. Next to no one in their right mind will fill that for you inside, especially with a home grown install.
3. Diesel is not flammable.
6. Most metal fuel storage tanks corrode from the inside out.
Tommy
Automobilist
Well-known member
I happen to own a fuel tank & trailer company...
If you don't want to believe the advice given here, simply go to your local fire marshal, city/county planning dept., and ask them. Tell them exactly what you're planning on doing. Then call local fuel suppliers and ask them if they will fill a tank inside a building.
And please report back here with the answers.
If you don't want to believe the advice given here, simply go to your local fire marshal, city/county planning dept., and ask them. Tell them exactly what you're planning on doing. Then call local fuel suppliers and ask them if they will fill a tank inside a building.
And please report back here with the answers.
justme-
Well-known member
Agreed - your local fire marshall will be glad to tell you IF you can do what you want legally, and what you need to do legally to accomplish that. Gasolene is never stored indoors - "sealed" is relative and open venting outdoors could be a fire hazard.
Keeping in mind that gas goes bad quicker than you'll be consuming it - storage of gas needs to be done in low volume containers. the more air space the more moisture (humidity) for the ethanol to absorb which also allows more condensation and again more water. Gas stations store it under ground (more controlled temp/humidity) in double wall tanks (that can contain the tank volume if it leaks) and they don't store it long with most getting multiple deliveries per week.
We (where I work) are a rental company/power equipment service - we consume at least 50 gallons/week winter and 400-600/week summer - we use a 30 gallon rolling caddy. We use 30 gallon rolling caddies (2 for gas, 1 for diesel). Large enough we can go a day or 2 between fills on peak and small enough it's usually close to manage the humidity/condensation and if we have a bad batch from contamination or age (like this time of year) it's not a huge loss or hassle to purge it.
If you must store gas as you want to use 55gal drums. Smaller containers ideally one would be full while the other is consumed and would help control moisture/condensation issues. Also keep in mind gas expands when hot - summer storage of it is a big safety risk in quantity.
Keeping in mind that gas goes bad quicker than you'll be consuming it - storage of gas needs to be done in low volume containers. the more air space the more moisture (humidity) for the ethanol to absorb which also allows more condensation and again more water. Gas stations store it under ground (more controlled temp/humidity) in double wall tanks (that can contain the tank volume if it leaks) and they don't store it long with most getting multiple deliveries per week.
We (where I work) are a rental company/power equipment service - we consume at least 50 gallons/week winter and 400-600/week summer - we use a 30 gallon rolling caddy. We use 30 gallon rolling caddies (2 for gas, 1 for diesel). Large enough we can go a day or 2 between fills on peak and small enough it's usually close to manage the humidity/condensation and if we have a bad batch from contamination or age (like this time of year) it's not a huge loss or hassle to purge it.
If you must store gas as you want to use 55gal drums. Smaller containers ideally one would be full while the other is consumed and would help control moisture/condensation issues. Also keep in mind gas expands when hot - summer storage of it is a big safety risk in quantity.
Vegaman_Dan
Well-known member
Here's a silly thought- how about buying a used small tanker truck and just use that on site? Might be a lot easier overall. You'll be able to go fill it yourself and move it to where you need the fuel to be.
Zelatore
Well-known member
Many years ago my father had a good size tank -maybe 500 gal -on a stand perhaps 5-6' tall behind his barn. He worked at the local refinery and could get gasoline very inexpensively and we filled all the family's cars/trucks/RV/tractor/dirt bikes/etc with it just via gravity feed. Even then, I don't remember it ever being completely full.
It's probably still there, but I doubt very much he's still using it as he's been retired for quite a while now.
It worked fine and never had a problem. We had a filter on it, but never really worried about water since this was pre-ethanol days. And no, we never considered putting it IN the barn, even though it was just a simple gravel floored pole building.
I can appreciate the idea, but it's tough to make work these days with gas that goes bad so quickly. You commented that you have a diesel tank indoors now - that's a totally different animal than gas.
It's probably still there, but I doubt very much he's still using it as he's been retired for quite a while now.
It worked fine and never had a problem. We had a filter on it, but never really worried about water since this was pre-ethanol days. And no, we never considered putting it IN the barn, even though it was just a simple gravel floored pole building.
I can appreciate the idea, but it's tough to make work these days with gas that goes bad so quickly. You commented that you have a diesel tank indoors now - that's a totally different animal than gas.
LB-1911
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Give this a read..............
Wisconsin Dept Of Commerrece
Amnesty Period for Above-ground Motor Fuel Tanks on Farms
http://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Indust...PeriodForAbovegroundMotorFuelTanksOnFarms.pdf
Edit
You'll notice that even emergency generators & APU's are limited to 25 gallons of gasoline when inside.
This guidance letter applies to tanks supplying fuel to emergency generators and auxiliary power units
http://dsps.wi.gov/er/pdf/bst/ProgramLetters_PL/ER-BST-PL-StationaryCombEngine.pdf
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Lippyp
Well-known member
If you read that document it says any tank holding gasoline must meet current standards and must be 40 feet from any building including open pole barn type structures. That to me says you absolutely cannot have it located inside a building. Lots of farms around me have diesel tanks in barns as theft of diesel has become a real issue but I don't know any that have tanks for petrol (gas) just to damn dangerous to even consider unless you put it underground and then the costs outweigh the savings/convenience.
# 4= Diesel Fumes are considered non combustible, gasoline fumes are combustible.
I have hooked several above ground gasoline and diesel tanks up around here, Diesel tanks can be hooked up with PVC pipe and "Non Explosion Proof wiring". Gasoline needs to be explosion proof, Check and make sure that the 12 volt transfer pump you want to use is approved for gasoline, also, the gas tank needs to be in a dike of some sort in case of spillage. Around here, after an electrical inspection, the fire marshal has to give his blessing, it would be a very bad learning experience to find out your insurance wouldnt cover .
I think the last one I hooked up for my buddy, he was complaining that he had a double wall tank inside an 18" dike $$$$
Good Luck
Fishplate
Well-known member
Not to mention...
While gasoline is selling for $2.05 - 2.10 at all the local gas stations, I just paid the distributor $2.19 per gallon for 400 gallons of gasoline. Buy it right, and you save. Buy it wrong, and you lose...
While gasoline is selling for $2.05 - 2.10 at all the local gas stations, I just paid the distributor $2.19 per gallon for 400 gallons of gasoline. Buy it right, and you save. Buy it wrong, and you lose...
DonPowers
Well-known member
Good move. They should know both NFPA and DEP requirements for your installation.
If you want to do some reading, check out NFPA 30 Flammable & Combustible Liquids Code. Chapter 6 deals with Container and Portable Tank Storage.
6.1 Scope.
6.1.1 This chapter shall apply to the storage of liquids in
drums or other containers that do not exceed 450 L (119 gal)
individual capacity, in portable tanks that do not exceed 2500 L
(660 gal) individual capacity, and in intermediate bulk containers
that do not exceed 3000 L (793 gal) and to limited transfers
incidental thereto. This chapter shall also apply to overpack
drums when used for temporary containment of containers that
do not exceed 230 L (60 gal) capacity. Such overpack containers
shall be treated as containers as defined in 3.3.7.
Ok, so I talked to my supplier - yes I can get it filled. But no it's not legal. I just purchased this building as a cold storage for my toys, so I will pass on the gas tank for now and see how I actually use the space. I can install the tank outside as long as I use explosion proof electric conduit, but I need a permit and state inspection but I can't stand asking or sharing any information with big brother. I do appreciate my GJ brothers and their input, so thank you.
Automobilist
Well-known member
Here's a viable option:
The tank could be installed on a trailer. That makes it a mobile system. As long as the trailer is registered, should be legal. Now, you cannot EVER take it on the road, or any public lands, because for that a DOT 406 unit is required by federal law.
But... On your private land, you're not in violation of traffic laws. And if it's registered, as in; has a license plate, who's to say it wouldn't be moved at any time. Thus, the permits needed for a "stationary" tank shouldn't apply.
Read between the lines a bit... Proceed at your own risk. I assume no liability for this post, it is a hypothetical scenario only.
The tank could be installed on a trailer. That makes it a mobile system. As long as the trailer is registered, should be legal. Now, you cannot EVER take it on the road, or any public lands, because for that a DOT 406 unit is required by federal law.
But... On your private land, you're not in violation of traffic laws. And if it's registered, as in; has a license plate, who's to say it wouldn't be moved at any time. Thus, the permits needed for a "stationary" tank shouldn't apply.
Read between the lines a bit... Proceed at your own risk. I assume no liability for this post, it is a hypothetical scenario only.
