Bullet heater question

[JTslim]

Hello gents I have a question....

I have a propane bullet heater (space heater) for the shop, the exact name escapes me at this moment.

Is it safe to run this with no ventilation? Should I crack a window or the garage door? I'm not looking for "you should always ventilate" I get that... but is there a serious build up of poisonous gas like carbon monoxide or something? What is the gas that would build up from burning propane? Does cracking the garage door really work or is it for peace of mind. If there was really a serious concern, I would crack more than the garage door (cracking it seems insignificant). I wouldn't feel safe cracking the garage door with the car running, you know? I guess I wonder about this in a lot of scenarios- camping, in a camper.

Any input helps, thanks

 

[RECox286]

The reason that warehouse forklifts are powered by

LP is that the exhaust is mainly carbon dioxide (co2)

and water vapor (h2o). I would still be careful about

using any heater in a closed in space, b/c an over

amount of co2 can be just as deadly as co. Breathe

into a paper bag long enough...Or put a plastic bag

over your head. Get it ? I would also not run a heater

like that w/o somebody monitoring it. Even though it's

easy enough to say to yourself "Gee, it always worked

fine before the fire company/rescue squad had to show

up."

Uncle Bob

 

[epmills]

Definitely have ventilation. Back when I lived in MN, we would run the heater until the garage was comfortable, then turn it off and shut the door. It worked fine, just had to crack the door and fire up the heater every 30 minutes or so.

 

[zTimbo]

I currently use a propane bullet heater to heat my 1200sq. Ft. Shop with 12ft ceilings. My shop is insulated really well and I run mine for about 30-45 minutes at a time, mainly because I get tired of listening to that loud mofo. I do get fume buildup and when I start to notice the fume buildup I'll crack the roll up door about 2ft. I never have any problems and don't reckon I'm killing anymore brain cells than anything else I do that's not good for me.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Occasionally I run mine for 20-30 mins without the door open. I typically open the door to get some cooler air back in. It gets mighty hot.

 

[jkwilson]

These heaters are not intended to be used in an enclosed space. Even the smallest heater needs two 1 square foot vent openings, one high and one near the floor. Larger heaters need larger openings.

 

[BearsFan315]

I agree VENTILATION !!

I have the same style, it is a MR HEATER FORCED AIR PROPANE HEATER 30-60k BTU.

When running I always cracked the main door, or the man door for FRESH air heat up the garage then shut it off, close the door, get to work... If it starts to get too cool, back to square one and repeat.

 

[brass89]

Yes you should crack the door. Even though propane isn't as bad as other things like kerosene, there will still be some fumes, build up of co2 and because it's a flame heater it's burning oxygen. The bigger the heater, the more oxygen it consumes. Depleted oxygen levels can have ill effects - irritability, dizziness, fatigue etc.

I always try to err to the side of caution suggesting things to others because i'd rather they be safe than sorry. Used a bullet/torpedo style shop heater for awhile in a 3 bay auto garage with 15ft ceilings and still cracked one of the bay doors (in addition to opening/closing pulling cars in and out etc).

You mentioned using it camping, in a camper..? I must be thinking of a different heater. The one I'm thinking of is like a 30-60k btu, runs on either propane or other models use kerosene/diesel. A 3-4ft long tube with an 8-10gal tank, like a small jet engine. Takes the paint off of cars if you get it too close. Surely you wouldn't use something like that in a camper unless you were trying to burn it down

 

[JTslim]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I wonder about these things from time to time so I thought I would ask. I always ventilate but I wanted to know the science behind it. Kind of like a mythbusters or an old wives tale.

In conclusion it seems as though it isn't a build up of noxious gasses, it is a burning of available oxygen, and there isn't enough oxygen to replace that which is being burned? Or did I read wrong?

Either way, thanks for all the info

Surely you wouldn't use something like that in a camper unless you were trying to burn it down

I was wondering about the propane heaters in campers... are they burning propane or is it an entirely different system? I wouldn't run a bullet in a camper! Just wondering about the camper heaters already installed.

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

Camper furnace is vented to the outside, no buildup, just like your home furnace.

I bought a CO/CO2/Nat.Gas detector that I use in my garage, not worth the risk.

 

[brass89]

I'm not sure whether it's creating additional o2 or just depleting oxygen that results in a heavy co2 to oxygen ratio. Don't take my word as gospel but I'm fairly certain almost all fire/flame types of heat (burning) requires some form of oxygen. Part of the combustion process, whether it's fed by gasoline in a car, wood in a woodstove or fueled by another gas all take oxygen to stay lit.

Co and co2 detectors are a good addition to have. Seems like it's more of an issue these days than it used to be. Every winter around here in the midwest there's a story on the news about someone either hurt or dying from co poisoning from running their car in an attached garage. Maybe buildings are more air tight now than they used to be and the older draftier ones were a saving grace from fumes. Bad thing is, it's hard to notice.

In the past working at an auto shop in winter we'd run cars in the bays with an exhaust hose hooked up to a vent in the door. Every now and then a hose might either vibrate loose or get bumped off a car on a lift. I'd start to feel sluggish, start getting an unexplained headache, somewhat irritable and realize the issue of exhaust pumping into the shop. Opening the bay doors and fully exchanging the air inside would cure the symptoms in a matter of minutes. The bad part not noticing due to relatively low odor until the effects start taking place so it's a very real possibility and not just unfounded fear.

 

[laser3kw]

whoops! see below

 

[laser3kw]

Similar to zTimbo - I use a 100,00 btu "bullet" propane heater and / or a trashcan propane heater (link to trashcan heater) in my 1200 sq ft 10 wall. It is insulated to the hilt.
I run the bullet to bring it up to 60º in about 45 minutes from 10º. then I maintain with the trashcan heater. I do not have any problems. But that doesn't mean anyone should not be aware of potential problems. Get a CO detector at the least. Also re-read about flame color. When I first got my bullet, it would foul the air to where your eyes would sting and water non stop. I took it to my HVAC guy and he tuned it up to operated correctly.

 

[TractorJeff]

You guys should just GOOGLE the manual!
That way you wouldn't waste your time and possibly some ones life!
At the BARE minimum Manuals for these types of Heaters state required square footage of OPEN ventilation!
Be SMART!
Don't ask someone you do not know on the Internet about combustion gasses and heat in an enclosed space!

SORRY FOR THE RANT, BUT HAVE SEEN 2 CASES WHERE "OH, PROPANE IS SAFER THAN KEROSENE!"

 

[rlitman]

The reason that warehouse forklifts are powered by LP is that the exhaust is mainly carbon dioxide (co2) and water vapor (h2o).

That's in warehouses that are so open they're practically outside.
In an air conditioned or heated warehouse, they use battery power for a reason.

 

[JTslim]

Great, thanks guys. Very interesting reads.

TractorJeff- be still- don't worry, I was just asking a question to the age old tale of ventilating a propane heater. I have heard many stories of those who died while having a car running (due to carbon monoxide) but never anything about burning propane (other than explosion of course). I like to know WHY things are happening. OF COURSE the manual is going to say ventilate! That along with one hundred other disclaimers. That is so they can't be sued, anything they can think of they will disclaim.

putting out harmless by-products if the flame is burning a perfect blue color. Any yellow flame indicates an incomplete/imperfect combustion which is producing some noxious gases. As a result, the more yellow the flame is the more important it is to have adequate ventilation.

Thank you for the information about having a strong blue flame. It will increase my efficiency!

 

[laser3kw]

just waking this thread back up for a moment.
I have a 30 x 40 x 12 and use both a 100k btu bullet heater and a 80k btu trashcan heater on propane. I have for several years with no apparent problems health wise . No ventilation other than inherent building circulation /draft.
With the well warranted concern about ventilation and air quality, I stepped up and, just for peace of mind - I just bought a CO detector -$13 at Menards.
Better to have one and have it never go off than to not have one and fear the worst.
I hope the rest will do the same.
happy holiday's