Buried utility lines & driveways

[67CarGuy]

I'm in the process of planning and designing a new house / garage build on "raw" land - hasn't been touched in 40+ years, former agricultural field that was left to go wild, etc. Anyways, the civil engineers we hired to do the initial lot survey for permitting are showing the buried electrical service and town water running down two trenches under the driveway (not across the driveway, *along* the driveway the full length of it). To my thinking, this means anytime there's an issue with either service (about 300 feet from road to house) that means the driveway has to get dug up, and makes it somewhere between a hassle and an impossibility to get a vehicle out to the road / in to the house/garage. Granted, it's not something that I expect to happen very often (preferably never!), but if a buried line does need to be inspected / repaired for whatever reason, I'd really like to keep my driveway intact. Seems like burying the utilities off to the side of the driveway would make more sense - what am I missing here?

I'm either not using the right search terms or at least haven't found anything in the NEC / IBC / IRC that would confirm what's "correct". What's the GJ brain trust's take on this? For reference, I'm in Mass., so I'm presuming at least the water trench will end up below the frost line, which is likely deeper than any subsurface prep I would have done for the driveway. For additional reference, the driveway will be gravel, and have one ~45 degree curve in it. The only site work we've done so far is clearing trees and brush, and expect the driveway to be put in later this summer/fall.

 

[The Cobbler]

I would ask them, they may have a reason why they do that, and maybe can relocate it. could be as simple as not tearing up land that needs to be re landscaped, and the driveway will already be excavated ?

 

[Higgins]

Call and have the utilities located!!!

Don’t go by any drawings that the county or road commission has! Get them located and go from there !!!

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ I think he is referring to the plan for the build. not where there are currently services

 

[djbmw]

Since this will be a new build, ensure they run the lines 5' away from your driveway. If it were an existing build... 100% get them located, or buy a used radiodetection setup for yourself. It will tell you EXACTLY where the lines are, and how deep (including your water line if it has a tracer, or if its metal. Even if its plastic, you can feed a snake/tracer into the water line to locate it). I picked up a $500 used radiodetector and located our well, utilities, and numerous other lines - comes in handy before digging with the backhoe!

 

[67CarGuy]

^^^ I think he is referring to the plan for the build. not where there are currently services

Correct - currently there are no utilities, just what's at the street. I'm sure I can get the utilities run "wherever", provided I pay the trenching costs. I'm just trying to determine if there's a good reason to run them down the driveway, rather than on the side. Yes, there will be landscaping eventually, but I'd rather disturb some grass and shrubs in 5-10-20 years than have to dig through the driveway, etc.

 

[P0234]

I think you are losing sleep over this if you plan to keep a gravel driveway. Chances are they won't ever mess with it, and if they do just make them let you have a way off the property. Paved is what I would worry about.

 

[djbmw]

Correct - currently there are no utilities, just what's at the street. I'm sure I can get the utilities run "wherever", provided I pay the trenching costs. I'm just trying to determine if there's a good reason to run them down the driveway, rather than on the side. Yes, there will be landscaping eventually, but I'd rather disturb some grass and shrubs in 5-10-20 years than have to dig through the driveway, etc.

Yes, tree roots could cause havoc in the future... so dont plant anything with an agressive root structure close to the lines

 

[PCustoms]

They probably put it under the driveway as you (or the next owner) are less likely to go randomly digging there in middle of the driveway then off to the side.

I'd think it is pretty low risk of needing to "service" and underground feed.

 

[67CarGuy]

Yes, tree roots could cause havoc in the future... so dont plant anything with an agressive root structure close to the lines

They probably put it under the driveway as you (or the next owner) are less likely to go randomly digging there in middle of the driveway then off to the side.

I'd think it is pretty low risk of needing to "service" and underground feed.

Appreciate the input - that's what I was thinking, that there's likely little risk of needing to excavate the lines in the future. Electrical service is certainly low on the risk list, but I can see how a leak in the water line could cause an issue. I'm just trying to make sure I'm not overthinking it - I don't have any intentions of digging up service lines or redoing my driveway in X years, but then again how many of us do have such intentions?

 

[firebirdparts]

If this is on paper then by all means put it beside the driveway.

People do many harsh things to prevent damage to utilities underground. They really do. So I guess they put them under the road for that reason. That is, thinking nobody digs a post hole in the middle of the driveway.

 

[Mytoolsupply]

Just to clarify in the plans the engineer is wanting to run your utilities under the driveway, not beside it correct?

 

[Rusted Nut]

Just to clarify in the plans the engineer is wanting to run your utilities under the driveway, not beside it correct?

If this is the case, ask the engineer what they are thinking. These are new utility service lines, not existing - correct?

 

[Bert_]

Run them beside the driveway.

 

[67CarGuy]

Yes, these are new utility lines on unimproved / raw land. It's all only on paper at the moment.

 

[67CarGuy]

Just to clarify in the plans the engineer is wanting to run your utilities under the driveway, not beside it correct?

Correct. When I first asked he said that's how they prefer to design them. Until I understand the reasons why vs why not, I'm holding off on telling him to put them beside the driveway rather than under. It's his stamp on the drawings, after all.

 

[ycgoat]

If there is an existing easement they will use that, otherwise they will want an easement agreement. Putting utilities under the driveway is odd and will require conduit.

 

[Jim greengo]

Move the driveway?

 

[yatg]

So they want to trench into native soil for utilities then backfill under your proposed driveway? I hope they compact it really well.

 

[FredWanaker]

If they insist on the driveway, make the driveway 5 feet wider, put it on that 5' edge, then abandon the side 5'. Most likely they want you and future owners to know exactly where the lines will be in 15 years, and avoid trees etc planted too close to them in the future. That said, I would do conduit anyway to make it easy to replace at a later date. Same on the Internet lines etc..

 

[rustrunner]

If it's a new service, put it conduit.

 

[CraigStu]

I agree, I would want the utilities 4-5ft from the drive. Digging through a typical gravel drive would be an absolute pain. They always start w/ the 6-8in stones as the base so all the construction equipment and materials can be delivered. Eventually those get topped w/ standard driveway gravel. Digging through that automatically means at least a backhoe or excavator. And it's a pain because the stone and gravel keeps falling back into the hole so you end up w/ a 2-3ft wide trench to get to a 6 inch wide pipe or cable. Although our drive is only 100ft it is same as yours. A completely wooded lot cleared for the house. Our power comes from the green steel box near the road to the same type box near the house at maybe 15ft away from and paralleling the drive. Water comes in from the junction in the supply near the road but 140 down from the driveway. I am betting they like to design them that way so they can lay them in whatever excavating they do for the drive. Bingo, no need to dig a separate 300ft trench.

 

[jack stand]

Conduit for everything and a spare. Cheap insurance and as mentioned above you don't want disturbed soil 4' deep under your driveway gravel or pavement.
It's your project and the engineer is working for you.

 

[PCustoms]

To everyone saying put it in conduit:

At 300 ft, there's a good chance this is utility owned and or a transformer is up near the house. If so the op is going to get what he's going to get.

If not, go price out large diameter conduit. Easier to spend other people's money than your own isn't it?

 

[jack stand]

To everyone saying put it in conduit;

If not, go price out large diameter conduit. Easier to spend other people's money than your own isn't it?

Good point. Not too long ago it's price was a non issue in relation to the possible reward.
I have a 300' run from the last pole and put in 3 spares with one big enough for another 200A service.
15 years and I'm down to one 3/4" spare.

 

[67CarGuy]

Thanks for the replies, all. Yes, I'm expecting it to be in conduit - I understand the cost implications of that. As @jack stand notes, I'll likely have an empty conduit installed while the trench is open. From what we saw when the perc tests were done for the septic, I'm thinking the trenching should go pretty smoothly - no major trees to deal with once you're about 50 feet in from the road, and all the rocks seem to have been piled up in a nice wall about 100 years ago....

Once this gets underway I'll start a new thread with the full build, add some photos, etc. For now I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything (as much as that's possible) in the design.