Busted Pipe? Help!

[Plombob]

I got my water bill this month and it's almost triple our usual bill.

For a while now I've heard a faint hissing noise in the bathroom when the water is off. We repiped the house a few years ago and the only pipe that wasn't replaced was the line to a hose bib that is under concrete.

Today, I shinnied under the house to see if there was a leak there. Couldn't find any leaks.

If I put a screwdriver to the pipe and my ear, I hear the water running at the hose bib and also at the water heater which is about 50' away from the bib. I shut the water to the house and the noise stopped. The hose bib under the concrete is the furthest plumbing point on the property.

I noticed that a concrete pad is lifting near the bib. I don't see evidence of water though.

The water you see in the photo dripped out of the hose, that isn't the leak.
View media item 10025
Closeup of the lift. It's significant.
View media item 10026
Questions:

• Does the lifted concrete pad indicate a broken pipe?
• How can you tell if a pipe is leaking under concrete?
• Will the plumber have to break the concrete all the way back to the house to repair the line, or is there some other way to fix it?
• Can you locate the source of a leak by the hissing noise? Does the noise change near the leak?

FWIW - We have high pressure and I had the plumber install a heavy duty regulator when they repiped. Pressure is holding at 50, which is lower than normal. Usually it runs around 70-80.

Thanks for your help.

 

[domain]

If there is a shutoff to the hose bib, I would shut that off and see what you have after...

 

[Plombob]

If there is a shutoff to the hose bib, I would shut that off and see what you have after...

No such luck. I don't even know where it comes out of the house.

 

[domain]

Bottom line is to find the pipe, under the house or in basement and install a shut-off or cap it. I'm no plumber but hissing at the bib with hose off, lifted slab, and noise from bathroom close to bib seems suspicious....

 

[Norcal]

Bottom line is to find the pipe, under the house or in basement and install a shut-off or cap it. I'm no plumber but hissing at the bib with hose off, lifted slab, and noise from bathroom close to bib seems suspicious....

I suspect the OP is in CA, basements are rare & a lot of tract homes are built w/ slab on grade, so finding the leak will be a chore, I recently had a leak of old underground galvy pipe that was installed in 1957, that caused my electric bill to skyrocket, because the pump ran a lot. still has not been repaired but has been isolated.

 

[metal1313]

you've got some work ahead of you my friend. i would remove the lifted slab and dig under the house slab. the pipe might be leaking right there at the elbow if your really lucky. if not your gonna have to locate the water lines through out the house and disconnect the hose line.

 

[shannonw]

just warning, i'm not a plumber, just an old concrete house and pool i refurbed.

A lifting pool slab can be from settlement under the slab ie from water, it basically compresses the fill then the pad sinks on one end lifting the other, that's what cause deck problems. But then again the hose bib is right there also, it's going to get h20 under between the expansion joints..a case like that just depends on how well the fill was compacted before the deck was poured, old it is,etc. It does look like some settlement there to me back towards the bib, i'd wonder about water under that point, should caulk and seal those locations.

i'd call in someone slab home plumbing is pain, they have equiptment to spot that stuff through slabs. Typically water goes into the house, then branches off to outside plumbing (hard water), then it goes straight in towards your water heater, but you'd have to know your plumbing to know where that point is.

I take it you water meter was turning too as well as the noise? when i suspect a leak, i turn everything off then watch the meter.

 

[shannonw]

Also if the leak is under the slab the only two choices i know of are to run another line above ground and (locating and cutting off that line), or they saw cut the slab, fix the leak then pour a patch. The slab could be due to settling because of a leak under there, or it is a pool =) they get a lot of water and will get a bit out of wack over time anyways. It looks like it's slopped to the house, around here anytime it's sloped to the house there is a drain channel at the house but i'm in florida we get torrential downpours.

 

[Plombob]

A lifting pool slab can be from settlement under the slab ie from water

The slab lifted in the past few weeks so I suspect you're correct and that's where the leak is. I'll be calling the plumber tomorrow.

 

[cowboyjosh]

In my experiences as a builder I've learned that there are plumbing contractors that specialize in leak detection and repair; beats the hell out of jack hammering everywhere they "think" the pipe might be. What they do is they have specialized equipment where they hone in on the pipe under the slab, or in the cases I experienced the exact spot the line from the meter at the street to the house was leaking, dug in that spot and repaired; they can do the same with a slab on grade configuration you describe.

Keep us posted on what becomes of this.

 

[Plombob]

In my experiences as a builder I've learned that there are plumbing contractors that specialize in leak detection and repair

Thanks for the tip! I'll look for that specialty.

 

[NUTTSGT]

It looks like your concrete can be pulled up in sections. If it can, consider that a blessing in diguise as they may go right back in place and save you some future headaches.

 

[Plombob]

It looks like your concrete can be pulled up in sections. If it can, consider that a blessing in diguise as they may go right back in place and save you some future headaches.

How do they do that? That slab isn't big, but it's got to be heavy.

 

[Plombob]

Plumber came by and couldn't find the leak, so tomorrow a company is coming out to do the leak detection by pumping CO2 through the system. Plumber says the CO2 squeals as it exits the leak. I'll let you know what they find.

Thanks for the info y'all provided.

 

[ZRX61]

How do they do that? That slab isn't big, but it's got to be heavy.

You break it out in pieces, but at least it's easy to *patch*

 

[tcianci]

Are you sure the hissing isn't a leaking fill valve on the toilet? Listening to a pipe with any type of "stethescope" (or screwdriver) as the case may be will yield just about the same sound anywhere throughout the system. I would look to see if the water level in your toilet tank is overflowing into the fill tube.

 

[domain]

I suspect the OP is in CA, basements are rare & a lot of tract homes are built w/ slab on grade, so finding the leak will be a chore, I recently had a leak of old underground galvy pipe that was installed in 1957, that caused my electric bill to skyrocket, because the pump ran a lot. still has not been repaired but has been isolated.

Thats new to me im from NKY/Cincy.Best of luck to you!

 

[green.bubbly]

With a water bill that tripled, you are using a lot of water. One would think that the water would become visible somewhere. Something else to look into...


Water heater drain valve or pressure relief valve leaking.
Wife left the sprinkler on again.

 

[Plombob]

With a water bill that tripled, you are using a lot of water. One would think that the water would become visible somewhere. Something else to look into...

That's what the plumber said. That's why they didn't start jackhammering by the hose bib.

Water heater drain valve or pressure relief valve leaking.

That's easily seen; not leaking.

Wife left the sprinkler on again.

 

[Plombob]

Thats new to me im from NKY/Cincy.Best of luck to you!

I suspect the OP is in CA, basements are rare & a lot of tract homes are built w/ slab on grade, so finding the leak will be a chore, I recently had a leak of old underground galvy pipe that was installed in 1957, that caused my electric bill to skyrocket, because the pump ran a lot. still has not been repaired but has been isolated.

Norcal is right. No basement. But no slab either. Crawlspace, and mighty tight at that. If I was a portly fella I couldn't do go under the house. It's only the third time I've been down there in 20 years. I hate going down there because you never know what you'll find. This town has more black widows than any place I know.

 

[Plombob]

The leak detector found the source of the leak based upon the information I gave him. He drilled two holes into the concrete at the bib and if the CO2 blows the concrete dust away, that indicates a leak. He also had a device that allowed him to listen to the pipe. He connected a device to the pipe and then walked around with his headset and receiver.

The pipe was leaking for a long time. It was completely encrusted with rust and looked like it was twice its original diameter. I asked the leak detector where the water went. He said our drainage is good and the water went back to the water table.

Plumber then cut open the concrete around the bib, and the soil was wet. We discovered the fill valve for the swimming pool! I assumed that none existed, because I couldn't find any pipe, but it was shut off and covered with 3" of concrete. The hose bib was tapped into the same line.

The pipe wasn't in any condition to salvage, so I suggested we run a new line from the house, but not through the concrete. The plumber said they could run the pipe along the fence and through the garage rafters then out at the back of the garage to where the old bib was. So that's what I had them do.

The plumber capped the old pipe under the house, so the line is dead.

The leak detection cost $350 and the whole job was $2000. While they were here, I asked a few questions about the sewer line and how often it needed cleaning. They ran the snake through to the street at no charge.

When it was all done, they patched the concrete, cleaned up and left the place neat. The constant hissing noise is gone. I like these plumbers and will use them again if, God forbid, I need more work.

Finding the leak
View media item 10053
View media item 10054
View media item 10055
Pool fill valve and hose bib
View media item 10056
New bib
View media item 10058

 

[mrb]

that wasnt a cheap repair, but it looks like you got your moneys worth and they did a good job. Its nice to see someone on here pay the appropriate price and have a quality job done by a professional. what did they use to cut the concrete?

 

[Plombob]

They cut it with a worm drive Skill saw and a concrete blade. Cut a small patch of asphalt with the saw, then took a jack hammer to it.

I hope I got my money's worth. I bargained down from $2800. I hate these kinds of jobs because I don't have any way to judge if the contractor is gouging.

 

[metalhead212121]

Plombob- really stinks you had to pay that much... not saying you got ripped off... hopefully you won't be seeing him again (for your wallets sake)

Dan

 

[Plombob]

Thanks, Dan. It was a shocker when I got the news. Wasn't planning on a big bill like that.

Well, I'll be seeing someone else. I just discovered that the garage door broke. Happened while they were there, but it was a coincidence. Metal fatigue on a 70 year-old arm. Luckily I had a 2x2 as a safety in case the door tried to come down on its own. That kept the door from clobbering the guys.

 

[KenS]

The plumbers treated you right, made good suggestions, and did the job professionally. You can now sleep at night not worrying that water is undermining the foundation of your house or pool, and you have a relationship with someone you can trust if you need work in the future.

In this day and age, your bill was well worth it. The CO2 leak detection and gas bottle alone probably cost the plumber more than $1,000, not to mention, time, parts, labor-- and most of all-- skill and licenses.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Not a terrible price, they had to run footage to get new lines there and the test and the patch and they rodded your sewer, you did OK.

 

[green.bubbly]

So what you are saying is that it was not the water heater pressure relief valve?

 

[Milton Shaw]

That lifted slap most likely is the problem. Drill and install a couple of anchors and eye bolts in and pick it up with cherry picker or hoist and the leak should be in that area. IF you get it out easily you should be able to reinstall it on gravel base and not have any concrete work to redo.

 

[Plombob]

That lifted slap most likely is the problem. Drill and install a couple of anchors and eye bolts in and pick it up with cherry picker or hoist and the leak should be in that area. IF you get it out easily you should be able to reinstall it on gravel base and not have any concrete work to redo.

That's a GREAT idea!

I was wondering how to deal with that raised slab, but now I have a plan!

Thanks Milton!

 

[Plombob]

The plumbers treated you right, made good suggestions, and did the job professionally. You can now sleep at night not worrying that water is undermining the foundation of your house or pool, and you have a relationship with someone you can trust if you need work in the future.

In this day and age, your bill was well worth it. The CO2 leak detection and gas bottle alone probably cost the plumber more than $1,000, not to mention, time, parts, labor-- and most of all-- skill and licenses.

Not a terrible price, they had to run footage to get new lines there and the test and the patch and they rodded your sewer, you did OK.

Thanks guys. I feel better knowing that guys who know more about plumbing than me think it was a good deal.

 

[Plombob]

You can now sleep at night not worrying that water is undermining the foundation of your house or pool.

Well... Last night about 2AM I woke to the noise of the toilet filling up. Then again at 3AM. Got up and shut the valve off. Found the reservoir empty in the morning.

Put a new flapper on and told those f*%#**ing plumbing gremlins to get the f*%#** off of my property.

 

[SGTH55]

After reading your post's (got here late) I'm with Frank, the plumbers did you right. Don't know where you are but it sounds like a fair deal. I'm in Nor Calif. close to Sacramento (and I'm a plumber).

 

[Mattlt]

It might be worth a call to your city to see if you can get your water bill reduced. Since you've got a receipt showing all the work that was done to repair the leak, you never know, they may credit your bill. Pretty sure they do that it my area.

 

[NUTTSGT]

That's a GREAT idea!

I was wondering how to deal with that raised slab, but now I have a plan!

Thanks Milton!

That's what I was trying to suggest earlier.

 

[Plombob]

It might be worth a call to your city to see if you can get your water bill reduced. Since you've got a receipt showing all the work that was done to repair the leak, you never know, they may credit your bill. Pretty sure they do that it my area.

Another great idea! I'll call them tomorrow.

Thanks Matt!

 

[Plombob]

After reading your post's (got here late) I'm with Frank, the plumbers did you right. Don't know where you are but it sounds like a fair deal. I'm in Nor Calif. close to Sacramento (and I'm a plumber).

I'm in So Cal. Since the guys who know plumbing say it was a fair deal, that's good enough for me.

 

[4Tigers]

also when you get the leak fixed check with the local water company. We had a pipe break just out side the house and they averaged our bill and forgave the large bill

good luck!

 

[Plombob]

also when you get the leak fixed check with the local water company. We had a pipe break just out side the house and they averaged our bill and forgave the large bill

good luck!

Your city is more generous than mine.

The Water Dept said when the water hits my side of the meter it's my problem.

 

[mtnkrake]

How did they get the new bib in the wall?