Buying a generator soon

[Rusty67]

I think I finally convinced my parents to buy a generator. Temperatures have been breaking 110 easy here the last week and there have already been power outages in near by cities. I'm looking for something that can run a larger refridgerator and hopefuly the down stairs AC.

The first place I went to look was Costco of course. They had this one:
http://www.cumminsonan.com/portable/products/standby/compare?gensetId=92

I've never heard of that brand. The generators that I know of and trust are Honda and Yamaha. I'm faily certain a solid brand that uses a Briggs and Straton motor would be a good choice as well.

Any recomendations as to which brands are worth buying and will last over time as well as stand up in 110+ degree heat ?

Also, how large of a generator do you guys think I would need to run a 48 cubic foot refridgerator and one ac unit.

It looks like the fridge is 115v, 15-20A. I'm going to get the info on the AC unit in the morning.

Thanks for any help !

 

[PoorOwner]

If you just need to run the fridge then a 2K watt unit will be fine.
I don't know what AC unit you have but if it is a whole house thing they usually use 5-10kW and it won't be easy to hook it all up without a transfer switch to backfeed the whole house..

 

[Rusty67]

There are two AC units. One for up stairs and one for down stairs. I think they might have lower power requirements then older units as they are only like two or three years old.

Do you have any brand or model recomendations ?

 

[nissan_crawler]

You're going to need a fairly big generator to run an A/C. Personally, I would stay away from Breaks & Scatters engines. They aren't what they used to be.

Husqvarna mower - B&S motor started smoking and using oil, turned it into sears to send to briggs 3x, came back as "normal" 3 times. I finally said screw it, quit putting oil in it and ran it. I mowed my yard a few times until it locked up solid and I sent it back. They put a new motor on, which still smokes on startup sometimes.

Craftsman 4-cycle weedeater - case seal started leaking, I let it go until it was close to warranty end and let it lock up (didn't want a repeat of the Husqvarna) and sent it in. So far, new engine is good.

Craftsman 3500W generator - second day of use, engine case blew the seal, leaked oil into the generator (didn't know that part). The low oil protection shut it down, I woke up to a cold house (during the ice storm a few years back), filled it with oil, and went back into the house, planning on replacing it when I got up. The house was light up like a christmas tree, 60w bulbs looked like 200w bulbs. Quickly shut it down and got a new generator.

35 year old Bolens push mower - 4.5 hp Briggs, was beat to hell on farms for 30 years, and then I used it for 5 years before it finally started burning a lot of oil.

Sad, really.

You need to figure out not just total wattage, but STARTUP wattage. These are two very different things. It may be able to RUN an a/c, but not START it, which renders the fact that it can run it, useless.

My 3500w will run my house, but I doubt it would run the a/c. I run it to the entire house, but have to be smart about what is on when. If I take a shower (well pump), I shut off the furnace and fridge. If I use the microwave or stove, I shut off the well pump and furnace and fridge. It just takes a little brains.

Secondly, also consider the cost of having the transfer switch and such installed. It's going to run me about $5-600 to get a switch and have it installed.

I'll admit I didn't do it "right" the first time, but I had no choice. NO electricians could be had at the time for a minimum of 2 weeks. I removed the main breaker and neutral, and wired the generator through the oven breaker. It was that or live in a 10* house with no water/toilets/electricity for 2 weeks.

 

[eschoendorff]

I have a 5kW (6200 surge) that I run the fridge, TV and other smaller items on... works well for me!

BTW... I's a Generac with a B&S motor. I have never had a problem with B&S engines... which is odd because usually nissan_crawler and I agree on everything.

 

[Rickster]

Go Chonda! Theres a China company that is marketing a direct copy of a Honda generator at a fraction of the cost. So much alike that you you can use Honda repair parts. Bunch of us at work bought them when Pep Boys closed out several Detroit area stores last year. We all bought the 3500 w unit for $225. The company has a J in a circle in the engine serial number, thats how you know its one of the Honda copies. I have not used mine yet, but several others have and they have reported quiet operation with no problems so far. Guy at work found the guys at the RV sites raving about these engines. Chonda's not the real name, Its what we called it. It's marketed under a lot of other names but the identifer is the Circled J in the engine serial number.

 

[wilbilt]

You probably can't go wrong with a Honda, but they are pricey.

I bought a Champion 4000W last January during a storm that caused widespread power outages. It was literally the last generator for sale in a 50-mile radius.

Made in China, it is a Honda copy and somewhat lacking in the fit and finish dept, but performed well for the three days it ran nonstop.

These machines have received good reviews from many RVers.

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generator.php

EDIT: Rickster beat me to it.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

This is what you need:

MTU 20-cylinder diesel. That'll power a small country.

 

[Mr. Welsh]

I have never had a problem with B&S engines.

I think they were quality years ago. I wouldn't buy one now; I've had several bad experiences.

Onan is a highly regarded brand...very popular with the RV crowd and others. We have a 13hp Honda-powered "Northstar" HF unit.

 

[Rusty67]

OK, I researched the AC unit and it looks like its an Amana Prestige II model number RCC48C2C. This appears to be a 46000 BTU unit and the voltage says 2: 208/230-60-1. I'm not entirely sure what that means but it looks like it runs on 230v ? Looks like it takes 24A to run and 40A to start.

The fridge is a KitchAid built in. It looks like the fridge runs at 2200 watts, 115V 15-20A.

With that large of a voltage drop between start and run for the AC, if I were to start the AC first and then the fridge I think I could get it running with a 40A generator that has a slightly higher peak operating capacity. What do you guys think ?

BTW, what the hell are R.L. Amps and L.R. Amps ? I've never heard of these before, just plain old Amps.

 

[Rusty67]

Ok, I just realized that since the AC units are basically 220v they are going to take twice as many amps to run/start as a 110 unit like the fridge. A generator with that much power is going to have some SERIOUS strength and a big price tag to match. I'm thinking running the AC might be out of our budget so maybe I should just focus on the refridgerator.

This unit from Costco is starting to look good. It looks like it would have no problem running the fridge and some other stuff in the house as well.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...e:BC&lang=en-US&Sp=C&search=generator&topnav=

What do you guys think ?

 

[Treeman]

I was under the impression that 220 uses 1/2 the amps, not twice.

If you go to the load usage link in your Costco page, it indicates that this generator would run a 24,000 BTU air conditioner. But, just barely. you would have to switch other stuff off.

I also was told it is best to run your generator at about 75% capacity during long periods of use.

Onan and Kohler are both very high up on the generator mfg. list. You should have good results with future service (parts, etc..).

My friend fried his $1,000 dollar generator last week because of no transfer switch and the power came back on when the generator was running.

Oops, didn't see your previous thread about 46,000 BTU.

 

[jimvannoy]

I've got a 5kw generator with a B&S engine. Got it at Sams. Used it 24 hours a day for about 14 days back when Katrina hit. Ran my refrigerator, freezer, TV, lights, Xbox, etc with no problems at all.

 

[Rusty67]

Ya, we will definately have the panel wiring up with a transfer switch. Not sure if I want to do this myself of pay for a pro to do it. Many pros I've seen do work inside my house don't do as good of a job as I do. I'm not worried about how hard it is to do, more worried about the danger to myself.

 

[Danglerb]

We are talking emergency here right, as in how do I keep alive and not toss the freezer full of food for a couple weeks?

I'd buy a pair of cheap 2000 to 2500 watt units and use one for the freezer and some small appliances like a couple lights and TV or whatever off a single power strip, and the second one for a small single room AC unit. Cheap ones are less than $200 each, and with a pair even if one goes bad you should be "ok" (run the freezer for a half hour or so twice a day etc.).

I would also buy a cheap 2000 watt inverter that will run off 12v. as the emergency emergency backup power.

OTOH one person I talked to down in FL set up her mothers house with a nice new 2 stage AC unit, and sized it so that the first stage would run fine using a 5000 watt generator.

 

[PoorOwner]

I also have the Champion, if you are in CA check with Kragen's / Murray's / Schuck's down there they carry these generators. Sometimes they have good rebates, I got my 5k generator with a huge rebate more than half off. That is if you don't mind a chinese copy OHV honda engine. As mentioned RV guys seem to like these generators so you probably won't go wrong for emergency use as well.

Also keep in mind the bigger generator you get the heavier and bigger engine is more noise, unless maybe you have a big property. Mine is a bit louder than my honda lawnmower.

 

[vssjim]

Those CuimminsOnan units are very good I would buy as big a unit as you can store and move around.

 

[trackwelder]

I have a coleman 5000w and a honda 6500w. The coleman was $500 and the honda bought used with no time on it $1100. The honda is so much quieter,easier to start,and uses less fuel. I keep the coleman for a loaner, knowbody uses the honda but me!

 

[Treeman]

Beware, Powermate, the company that makes Coleman generators is/has filed for bankruptcy. Coleman is o.k., it's Powermate that is sinking. Last I read on the internet gossip pages is that it is impossible to contact Powermate and/or get parts. I haven't confirmed the rumor.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

OK, I researched the AC unit and it looks like its an Amana Prestige II model number RCC48C2C. This appears to be a 46000 BTU unit and the voltage says 2: 208/230-60-1. I'm not entirely sure what that means but it looks like it runs on 230v ? Looks like it takes 24A to run and 40A to start.

The fridge is a KitchAid built in. It looks like the fridge runs at 2200 watts, 115V 15-20A.

With that large of a voltage drop between start and run for the AC, if I were to start the AC first and then the fridge I think I could get it running with a 40A generator that has a slightly higher peak operating capacity. What do you guys think ?

BTW, what the hell are R.L. Amps and L.R. Amps ? I've never heard of these before, just plain old Amps.

You need to know if the home is currently receiving 208 volt or 230 volt. I'm not sure if the wiring on the unit is different (jumpers or different terminals possibly) or the unit will simply accept either of those voltages, but the amp draws will be different.

RL will be running load I suppose.

LR is Locked Rotor, which is the most draw you will ever see.

Charles

 

[nissan_crawler]

Wait...I don't get this...how are you going to start the ac, then the fridge everytime????
Sure, the very first time you can, but unless you can get them cycling in perfect harmony (yeah right) you have no clue if the fridge will be on when the ac kicks on or not. The first time the order gets messed up and the generator screws the pooch (never count on the breaker) you're going to wish you had spent another $300 on the generator instead of blowing a $600 one and now buying an $900 one.

 

[Rusty67]

Charles, thanx for the info that is useful =)

Nissan, I can always just run the AC constantly and never let it shut down. In any event, I'm not looking to spend the kind of money that it would take to buy a generator capable of starting the AC so its a non-issue at this point.

 

[eschoendorff]

I was under the impression that 220 uses 1/2 the amps, not twice.

If you go to the load usage link in your Costco page, it indicates that this generator would run a 24,000 BTU air conditioner. But, just barely. you would have to switch other stuff off.

I also was told it is best to run your generator at about 75% capacity during long periods of use.

Onan and Kohler are both very high up on the generator mfg. list. You should have good results with future service (parts, etc..).

My friend fried his $1,000 dollar generator last week because of no transfer switch and the power came back on when the generator was running.

Oops, didn't see your previous thread about 46,000 BTU.

good luck finding parts for an older Onan engine. That's what i have in my Ingersoll 448 (also the engine in many JD 318s and Cub Cadets, as well as Miller welders for that matter). It was a premium engine, but was boought by Cummins (sp?) and the engines atre no more. The generators are Onan only in name now (IIRC)....

Those old Onan motors are great. Thirsty, but excellent power plants.

 

[eschoendorff]

This is what you need:

MTU 20-cylinder diesel. That'll power a small country.

That's badass! But diesel is about $4.50 a gallon here which means I could afford to run that thing for about 15 minutes

 

[danski0224]

P=IxE
P=40A x 220V
P=8800W

Instantaneous surge is close to 2x that amount.

That is a minimum to start your AC unit.

I know someone with a 9kW gas generator, and it won't start the 2 ton AC unit. It has a 16hp engine on it.

Don't forget that you must have enough gas on hand to run the thing.

Those construction grade Honda 5kW units **** gas- about 5 gallons in 8 hours at 75% intermittent load. The 5kW Colemans are worse... the Honda will last a long time, the Coleman not so much.

I would *strongly* suggest looking at an inverter style generator.

Not only are they quieter and much more efficient than a regular generator, the power output won't fry modern electronic devices if you buy a good one. A new fridge and furnace have computerized stuff inside.

I can run my enclosed Honda 3.5kW inverter for 8 hours at ~50% load on less than 2 gallons of gas, and I can barely hear it from ~15' at full throttle. The power output is computer grade.

 

[DaytonFan]

That is one hell of a genny!!

 

[nissan_crawler]

my 3500 w Craftsman takes about 5 gallons every 8-10 hours. I'm also running it at close to max capacity at my place, though.

I keep 20 gallons of gas on hand. I number the cans 1-4. Every week when the truck gets low, I dump the next number can into the pickup, go to the station, fill the can and the pickup. The next week, the next number gets dumped in the truck.

When I fill the mower, etc., I do it from the oldest tank, which is no more than a month old with this method.

 

[eschoendorff]

my 3500 w Craftsman takes about 5 gallons every 8-10 hours. I'm also running it at close to max capacity at my place, though.

I keep 20 gallons of gas on hand. I number the cans 1-4. Every week when the truck gets low, I dump the next number can into the pickup, go to the station, fill the can and the pickup. The next week, the next number gets dumped in the truck.

When I fill the mower, etc., I do it from the oldest tank, which is no more than a month old with this method.

I do the exact same thing... only with 10 ngallons of gas...

 

[Hip2u77]

I keep 20 gallons of gas on hand. I number the cans 1-4. Every week when the truck gets low, I dump the next number can into the pickup, go to the station, fill the can and the pickup. The next week, the next number gets dumped in the truck.

When I fill the mower, etc., I do it from the oldest tank, which is no more than a month old with this method.

I do the exact same thing... only with 10 ngallons of gas...

Why not just use Sta-bil? I filled my generator with 5 gallons of gas (that had a double shot of Sta-Bil in it), back in '06 and it started on the second pull a few weeks ago when storms took out our power. I'd only started it a few times before that, and then only let it run just long enough to run the carb out of gas. (I'd plug in a 500w shop light to test it.)

This was on a 5500w (8500w start) Generac with a 10HP B&S The older Generac model of this one.

I wired in this transfer panel myself as it uses the same standard breakers that my main panel uses, and I bought a 40ft 40amp cord from ebay. I had the frig, a box fan in the bedroom, fan in my office, 5 dvr's, computer, 2 monitors, DSl modem, cable modem, router, 3 cordless phones, 3 battery backups, a few clock radios all running and the meters weren't even showing a load. They did move when the compressor on the frig started so I know the meters were working. It was nice taking a shower and being about to use the 1500 watt hair dryer and not worry about shutting other things off. Love that 8500 starting watts.

The one downfall is the above generator doesn't have automatic voltage control, but I use a APC battery back that does have it, so it doesn't effect me in my office. (The whole reason I got the generator is I work from home, so I need nonstop power.) (On a side note. . . a decent battery backup for your computer works fine on the garage door opener when the powers out.)

 

[Rusty67]

Whats the actual (technical) difference between a regular generator and the inverter type ? I've been wondering what the advantages of the inverter type are.

Looks like they are more efficient and quieter ? Why ? Any other advantages ?

 

[nissan_crawler]

Why not just use Sta-bil? I filled my generator with 5 gallons of gas (that had a double shot of Sta-Bil in it), back in '06 and it started on the second pull a few weeks ago when storms took out our power. I'd only started it a few times before that, and then only let it run just long enough to run the carb out of gas. (I'd plug in a 500w shop light to test it.)

Why? Because I'm not going to rely on 2 year old gas when it's the difference between 70* and taking a dump in the toilet, and 5* and digging a hole in the backyard to **** in the dark.

Been there, done that, not happening again.

Every month I put a cup or two of gas in the generator, fire it up, and let it run dry.

 

[NSXSOON]

My house has two 4 tons ac units that would require a stationary 30Kw generator to fire up and run. Not at all cost effective. Instead I bought a Honda 5500watt inverter and a 10,000btu window ac unit that I place in the master bedroom window when needed and then back feed my breaker panels though my 40amp compressor outlet after throwing the main breaker to off. Works great and enables me to load manage anything I want except for the whole house ac units and the instant hot water heater.
The Honda inverter was $3100 new but is unbelievably quiet and uses about 5 gallons of gas in a 24 hour period. Window ac unit was $150. This is a lot better than installing a stationary unit and 250 gallon propane tank to run it like several people in my area!!!

 

[eschoendorff]

My house has two 4 tons ac units that would require a stationary 30Kw generator to fire up and run. Not at all cost effective. Instead I bought a Honda 5500watt inverter and a 10,000btu window ac unit that I place in the master bedroom window when needed and then back feed my breaker panels though my 40amp compressor outlet after throwing the main breaker to off. Works great and enables me to load manage anything I want except for the whole house ac units and the instant hot water heater.
The Honda inverter was $3100 new but is unbelievably quiet and uses about 5 gallons of gas in a 24 hour period. Window ac unit was $150. This is a lot better than installing a stationary unit and 250 gallon propane tank to run it like several people in my area!!!

Not a good idea...unless you don't mind possibly convicted of manslaughter. Unless, of course, you missed telling us about the transfer switch....

 

[Major Ramifications]

Your parents have a FOURTY EIGHT cubic foot refrigerator? Do you have 20 siblings or something? How could any family use that much fresh food space? I mean, you can only eat so much food in a day.
I would think that anybody with a 48 cubic foot fridge would have a natural gas powered standby rig already set up to exercise itself every week and connected through a transfer switch. All of this would certainly cost much less than a 48 cubic foot fridge.

 

[Rusty67]

I think its 48 inlcuding the freezer. I could be wrong, I might have read the description wrong.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Not a good idea...unless you don't mind possibly convicted of manslaughter. Unless, of course, you missed telling us about the transfer switch....

Pull the main (and the neutral preferably to be safe). That's what I did during the ice storm, no electricians available for over 2 weeks. I also told the power company about it so they knew, they were ok with it. They told me it's policy for them to short the wires first anyway. If you have your generator backfeeding the line, bye-bye generator. For planned FUTURE use, I would get a transfer switch, but if it's an emergency, do what you have to do. It was that or freeze all my pipes, my pressure tank, have no water, and sleep in a 10* house.

 

[NSXSOON]

Not a good idea...unless you don't mind possibly convicted of manslaughter. Unless, of course, you missed telling us about the transfer switch....

Granted you should have a transfer switch but you are doing essentially the same thing the transfer switch does IF you trip the main breaker prior to hooking up the generator. I don't recommend this to anyone who is "electricity challenged" however.

 

[Ira]

Granted you should have a transfer switch but you are doing essentially the same thing the transfer switch does IF you trip the main breaker prior to hooking up the generator. I don't recommend this to anyone who is "electricity challenged" however.

...and IF you unhook the generator prior to switching back to the grid.

For all practical purposes, the primary reason for the transfer switch is to eliminate both of the "IF's" above. It does two mechanical actions with one human action. With a transfer switch, it's one or the other, you can't have both "switched in". Without a transfer switch (throwing the main breaker and backfeeding thru an outlet), a person can do things in the wrong order.

Ira

 

[eschoendorff]

Back feeding has too many potential hazardous/legal issues surrounding it. Something can go wrong, and then you're liable. Just wanted everyone to be clear on taht before someone goes out and back feeds their generator through their house.

I was not aware of any possible issues and have back-fed my house before. But I won't do it again... mistakes can and do happen (electric company workers make mistakes too) and I don't want to be convicted of killing someone should something go wrong.

To all those who have not back-fed or who are not electricians: Back feed at your own risk! It is probably not something that will be covered under your homeowners insurance and your run the risk of hurting or even killing someone!

 

[eschoendorff]

...and IF you unhook the generator prior to switching back to the grid.

For all practical purposes, the primary reason for the transfer switch is to eliminate both of the "IF's" above. It does two mechanical actions with one human action. With a transfer switch, it's one or the other, you can't have both "switched in". Without a transfer switch (throwing the main breaker and backfeeding thru an outlet), a person can do things in the wrong order.

Ira

Exactly. Power company worked have been hurt and killed because of this. An innocent mistake could cost someone their life