Buying first miter saw

[OrneryDuck]

Buying first proper woodworking tool may be a more apt title. I've got lots of tools for fixing things (and many capable of unfixing them), but not much in the way of creating things. I aim to change that, starting with a miter saw. This will immediately allow me to build some benches and storage for the garage, as well as satisfy a couple household requests from the better half.

I've narrowed down my selection to the following saws, one a 10" SCMS, the other a 12" SCMS.

Option 1: 10" Rigid MS255SR
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1...r-Saw-with-Dual-Laser-Guide-MS255SR/203132245

Option 2: 12" Hitachi C12RSH
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-12-in-15-Amp-Slide-Laser-Compound-Miter-Saw/3107745

I don't foresee ever needing to cut more than a 4x4 or 2x8 for that matter, both of which the Rigid claims to handle well and reviews crow on about how 'clean' the saw runs due to the effective dust evacuation design. The Hitachi carries a lot of weight with its name for accuracy I've heard mixed reviews regarding their newer tools losing the quality they were once famous for with atrocious warranty support to boot. It is a bigger saw in the same price point, though application may be limited, especially if I get a table saw to handle rip cuts that a miter couldn't even consider.

Hitachi has revised the C12, the new model being C12RSH2 but there is little info on it to indicate if the changes are good, bad, or purely aesthetic.

Once I've become comfortable with the miter saw and sorted out my immediate bench needs, I'll look to add a table saw next. Not too terribly concerned with this one, as long as it can cut accurately, allowing for a consistent rip cut at 90* for normal work and 45* for making large French cleats if the need arose.

Thanks!

 

[kctyphoon]

Buy what you like.. The hitachi seems like it's a compact radial though, meaning it doesn't have rails that will slide back and hit the wall..

 

[ryan20021982]

Don't know about those models but my dad got a Hitachi 12" non sliding not sure the model but the fence system on it is terrible.

I have the Makita Model LS1016L and love it.

Also if you plan to get a table saw I would stick with the 10" so you can swap blades back and forth, it makes buying an expensive blade a little easier on the wallet if you can use it on 2 saws.

 

[zkling]

I'd go with the 12". One thing that really pushed me to go from the 10" to the 12" was capability to cut 4" pvc.

 

[tarbellb]

10" slider is a amazing tool. Cuts 95% of common projects, including 4x4 post.

Plus the 10" blade is cheaper.

Ridgid looks nice, I dont love the newer Hitachi stuff. Fit and finish arent great. I also have a Makita LS1016 (10" slider) and its been good. Dewalt is considered the standard, and a great buy when on sale w/ bonus base.

If you are sold on the Hitachi, check out www.bigskytool.com, they sell recon Hitachi. Ive had really good luck with them.

 

[Geobound]

Years ago I was in the same position, wondering what was the best way to go.

I was really letting the few bucks more that it would cost me to go to the 12-inch Double Bevel Sliding Compound Miter Saw eat me up, but my wife talked me into it.

I've got to say that I love the 12" saw so much more than I do my father-in-laws 10" saw.

I went with Dewalt when they had the saw and stand deal on for something like $800-$900 about 10 years ago, and now you can get them for a lot less.

I've never had a problem with the saw ever, and I cut just about everything that gets in my way with it. LOL.....

Plus Dewalt (and I'm sure others), have nice jigs readily available for doing things like crown molding and such. It makes things super easy and super fast.

Good luck with whatever you decided to go with.

 

[Wamsutta]

Horizontal handle vs vertical handle ?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Blade cost plus swapping with the table saw would put me in the 10" camp. Be aware the sliding compound saws aren't the most accurate for angles, eg miters for a frame.

 

[d.mcfarland]

10" slider is a amazing tool. Cuts 95% of common projects, including 4x4 post.

Plus the 10" blade is cheaper.

Ridgid looks nice, I dont love the newer Hitachi stuff. Fit and finish arent great. I also have a Makita LS1016 (10" slider) and its been good. Dewalt is considered the standard, and a great buy when on sale w/ bonus base.

If you are sold on the Hitachi, check out www.bigskytool.com, they sell recon Hitachi. Ive had really good luck with them.

+1

Slider will save your **** just that one time and you will be glad you had it.

 

[gdocktor3]

I have a refurbished 10" sliding compound by Ryobi. They sent it to me after I had an accident with an older one. I've been super impressed with it and would put it side by side with Dewalt or Hitachi. I did carpentry with it full time for quite a few years.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I have a 12" slider, along with a 10" cast iron table saw. Buy the best that you can afford. I really didn't think i needed tha 12" slider, but it saved my back side a few times

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[theoldwizard1]

Blade cost plus swapping with the table saw would put me in the 10" camp.

That, plus the size and the weight ! You will never fit a 12" in the trunk of a car unless you disassemble it.

Be aware the sliding compound saws aren't the most accurate for angles, eg miters for a frame.

If your slider is not accurate enough for framing then you have a poor quality saw.

Accurate enough for furniture making or picture framing is a different story.

 

[ryan20021982]

If your slider is not accurate enough for framing then you have a poor quality saw.

Accurate enough for furniture making or picture framing is a different story.

Pretty sure he was referring to a picture frame, he said frame not framing

 

[tatra]

I bought the Bosch articulated arm so as to have it store against the wall if need . Atm it is on the Bosch gravity rise stand . Mine is 12 inch . So far for the few cuts I have made I like it. Not cheap but no rails and capacity is just what I needed and wanted.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Pretty sure he was referring to a picture frame, he said frame not framing

Yes, I was referring to "picture" framing, as in casing a window or door. My oldtimers gets me more often now and I substitute words to try to get my meaning across...sometimes it doesn't work.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Accuracy from a miter saw should be impeccable. If it is not it is a poor quality saw. Or the saw has not been properly tuned up.The same can be said for a quality table saw.

One additional point about swapping saw blades between tablesaw and miter saw. In this era of specialty blades, a true miter saw or sliding miter saw blade as a -5° rake whereas a tablesaw blade is a positive rake. This should be taken into account when swapping blades back and forth. Additionally with a miter saw the 12 inch blade, 60 or 80 tooth blade greatly improves cutting capacity and smoothness of cut and my vote would always be for a 12 inch miter saw blade.

I hope this helps.

 

[BK13]

I'll not argue blade cost 10" vs 12", but the first time I had to swap a blade back I'd be cursing myself for not spending the few extra dollars a second blade would set me back.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Yes, I may have a poor quality saw. I also have looked at all, or nearly all, different makes of sliding miter saws and they all have a bit of slop; where I can easily push the blade off track with not much effort. My saw is great for framing decks and houses where a true 90 isn't critical, but ***** at inside finishing. I'm able to make it "good enough" by remembering to push slightly right when doing a 45 right angle, and slightly left when doing a 45 left angle. I'm just a hobbiest when it comes to finishing inside work so I'm not going to spend $800.00 on a saw that I'll use infrequently. However I might pick up a used Makita non-sliding miter just for inside finishing as I feel with just one pivot point there is going to be less chance of "slop".
Just my observations and opinions...worth what you paid for them.

 

[Finky198]

Accuracy from a miter saw should be impeccable. If it is not it is a poor quality saw. Or the saw has not been properly tuned up.The same can be said for a quality table saw.


Additionally with a miter saw the 12 inch blade, 60 or 80 tooth blade greatly improves cutting capacity and smoothness of cut and my vote would always be for a 12 inch miter saw blade.

another 12" (dewalt 780 ) user (not a pro), I'd Agree 100% ^^^ If you buy a good machine and use quality blade for the given application, use good technique to set up the saw. Your cutting speed, hand bias and pressure are the 3 variable you need to control...

If you can accomplish this you will have awesome Results.
No matter what type of Framing your doing....

 

[95riosnake]

I also recommend the Bosch GCM12SD, I bought a reconditioned one from cpobosch.com for $500 IIRC and could not be happier. It can sit flat against a wall, is quiet, has great bevel/miter controls and is very accurate. You could not tell this saw from a brand new one sitting side by side, so there's no reason to pay $650 for a brand new one.

 

[tatra]

Another plus with the Bosch I noticed is because of the lack of slider rails , not so cumbersome to manoeuvre trough narrow doorways by itself without the stand. I bought mine new with the stand for about 700 with taxes. That is Canadian dollars btw. Love the stand too. Bit pricey by itself as part of a package great deal imho.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Dw780 here with the jobsite stand. Totally love it. If I couldn't get this, i would have gotten the bosch articulating saw with gravity rise stand.

 

[OrneryDuck]

Dewalt DWS709 is on sale at HD-Online, looks like a competent 12" slider that is in-budget with the other two saws. This came at the recommendation of a longtime DWS780 owner/user.

I'm not doing fine work but I do want everything to be square. I don't plan to miter crown molding or skirting boards for some time, though owning a home means it is an eventuality. Maybe I buy a small fixed miter then, or I do an initial back-cut on the miter and cope those instead by hand.

There is some lateral deviation on all of the sliding models I reviewed in-store, which is expected from their design. It is a compromise I can accept as feel a slider is important no matter the size as I want to minimize redundant tooling. That requirement to meet my limited space and budget comes with compromising excellency at one task to enable practicality among many. From looking at the sliders, when fixed-retracted (for example to cut a 2x4), the lateral deviation appeared minimal and required a good bit of force to express. The saw's motion shouldn't generate excessive lateral pressure/thrust to actually make a cut at 90* less or more than, as long as it has been adjusted before making the final cut. (Theoretically, and a bit of hopefully )

At the end of the day I'm still a newbie, so even with a solid and accurate tool, its likely I'll be cutting multiple times to get a good cut, no matter the tool in-hand.

 

[turbowoodworker]

At the end of the day I'm still a newbie, so even with a solid and accurate tool, its likely I'll be cutting multiple times to get a good cut, no matter the tool in-hand.[/QUOTE]

Not true. With a good quality saw and blade you will be amazed at how good your work can be. A great tool can fix an average hack. Ask me how I know.

 

[smokey0810]

I've got a 10" Rigid non-slider that I love. Difference between the Rigid vs DeWalt was the laser guide, which really isn't that important.
Sometimes they have promotions to get a free miter stand with the DeWalts at Lowes.
For the first year I didn't have a miter stand, then finally purchased a universal Ryobi about 6 months ago. Made a world of difference in using my saw.
I'm a Rigid guy. Sort of like Chevy vs Ford. Some guys like Milwaukee, DeWalt, etc. Most of the internals are really the same, but for the $$$ the Rigid was less expensive, had the "laser" and has done me well, even cutting 4x4's.
I'd invest in a higher end blade, like a nice Diablo. That will also make a world of difference in the quality of your cuts.

 

[OrneryDuck]

So is the included (With Ridgid) Diablo blade is different from the 'off the shelf' Diablo blades available? I was planning to get an 80 tooth to compliment the 40T that is included.

Removing the 709 from the equation again; just noticed it lacks the cam lock, slide lock, and depth stop that the Ridgid has (all is available on the 779/780 Dewalt).

 

[Fcvapor05]

So is the included (With Ridgid) Diablo blade is different from the 'off the shelf' Diablo blades available? I was planning to get an 80 tooth to compliment the 40T that is included.

No.

Diablo blades are only 'good' in the big box store scale of blades.

Get yourself a Forrest blade and don't look back.

 

[Woz]

As Vcvapor05 said the Diablo and other Big Box store blades are fine for framing and decks. If you plan to do any trim or cabinet work you need to buy a Forest blade.

When the blade needs sharping send the blade back to Forest. They do the best job of any place I have tried. Also, they can replace any chipped teeth and save you from having to buy a completely new blade. I use Forest blades on all of my power saws have never been disappointed with their performance.

 

[kctyphoon]

Just to say it again.. BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.. you might as well ask people what's the best color, or their favorite **** sites.. Your gonna get 12 different answers..

If you don't NEED a 12" saw, I'd stick with a 10.. It's just so much easier to move around, and if you have the money to spend, get the folding stand for a 10" saw instead of spend more for a 12".. Bosch/Dewalt/craftsman might have a deal with getting a free stand so look around.

And just to add to the confusion.. My partner at work bought the compact 10" sliding craftsman.. I gotta admit the thing is really nice.. It has the forward rail design, so they stick out in front of the saw, and not behind it. Makes it much easier to store and use. Also, the stand it really nice. It has a power outlet built into one of the legs.. I don't really recommend craftsman power tools that often, but I gotta tell ya, this saw is nicer then my Dewalt, and my delta.. I'd consider it. The compact sliding design is a big plus, don't overlook it on any saw. And a 10" model will probably do most anything you need. Try not to get caught up in the "bigger is better" ********.. It's not always true.


EDIT:
Here - this is the craftsman I was telling you about. It's actually a "hot buy" right now and has $100 off the price, so it's $199.. Check out the pictures and pay close attention to how the rails are designed.. You can keep this saw flush with the wall behind it, you can't with the Ridgid you picked out.. It's also has the extending slide out tables on each side, and the hold down clamp (that nobody uses), but neither of those come with the Ridgid.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-1...iBWX_6O5q1i1-gRDKwUdSBoC4cfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

And here - the craftsman miter saw stand is also a hot buy, (this one doesn't have the outlet, but for $60 who gives a ****), and almost half price at $59. So you can get a 10" compact sliding miter saw, AND the stand, with free shipping, and like $20 back in rewards points, for less then just that Ridgid saw.. I would def go with the craftsman at this point, if it were me. read the reviews. It's a great saw.. Here's the stand -

http://www.sears.com/search=craftsman saw stand

No one "brand" is gonna be vastly better then another. They are all made overseas, they will all be just as accurate as the next one.. When your planning to build a chapel in Italy, then you can upgrade to a $1200 radial arm saw. Any of what you are looking at will be fine, it's just a matter of taste and trying to get the most for your money.

 

[tarbellb]

kctyphoon Ive come to appreciate most your insight on tool reviews but I cant back you up on the Sears saw.

It looks exactly like all the other red plastic junk Sears has been spewing out. And im not just saying that to bash Sears, I have had a lot of exposure to their power tools recently (read my post about the router table).

OP- put your hands on the saws you like, and run a couple of routine procedures like adjusting the fences, rotating the table, push/pull etc.. a few times. You will feel the difference.

If you are looking for a mid tier saw, the Ridgid, Hitachi, and maybe Ryobi are nice. Even Makita has a budget version (LS1018) of their top end saw.

 

[zkling]

I'll not argue blade cost 10" vs 12", but the first time I had to swap a blade back I'd be cursing myself for not spending the few extra dollars a second blade would set me back.

I'm cheap, but dang that's a pain. Not to mention a bit limiting. You'll want a good cross cut designed blade in the SCMS and a specific (cross, rip or even combo) in the table saw. Changing blades is not only dangerous, but adds wear and tear to not only the machine but large chances to damage the blade as well.

 

[yamaha0343]

I have the $100 Ryobi 10" non slider. I've made a lot of cuts with it, and it's been a dependable saw. Had to do some adjusting on the fence as it was off from the factory, but now cuts are very accurate and the fence has held true.

Disclaimer: I did install a Diablo blade when I first bought it. Forgot to mention that.

 

[Geobound]

As a side note, you can get the attachable laser light to the Dewalt mitre saws, so I'm guessing you can get them for the others too.

As I've said I have used my saw to cut plastic pipe, 4x4's, and butternut wood for my dinning room table and oak for cabinets, and have always been happy with the accuracy of the cuts.

I don't know who said it, and I'm too lazy to go back and look, but ignore the brands as we all have our favourites. Go to your big box store and try them out.

Often the manufacturers have a day that you can come in and give their tools a try.

The 10" mitre saw that I had originally was a Bosch, and that served me well for years.

I just went with the Dewalt 12" because of the dual bevel and sliding aspect, and more importantly the price at the time.

 

[ryan20021982]

I'm cheap, but dang that's a pain. Not to mention a bit limiting. You'll want a good cross cut designed blade in the SCMS and a specific (cross, rip or even combo) in the table saw. Changing blades is not only dangerous, but adds wear and tear to not only the machine but large chances to damage the blade as well.

If your damaging the blade or your saw stops working because of wear and tear from changing the blade your doing it wrong.

 

[kctyphoon]

kctyphoon Ive come to appreciate most your insight on tool reviews but I cant back you up on the Sears saw.

It looks exactly like all the other red plastic junk Sears has been spewing out. And im not just saying that to bash Sears, I have had a lot of exposure to their power tools recently (read my post about the router table).

OP- put your hands on the saws you like, and run a couple of routine procedures like adjusting the fences, rotating the table, push/pull etc.. a few times. You will feel the difference.

If you are looking for a mid tier saw, the Ridgid, Hitachi, and maybe Ryobi are nice. Even Makita has a budget version (LS1018) of their top end saw.

Yea I'm not a big fan of the craftsman stuff either when it comes to power tools. But the only reason I suggest this one is because I have a friend that owns it. I've had my hands on it quite a few times, and I'll admit I was a tad jealous when he got the craftsman even though I have a Dewalt and a delta non sliders myself.. I really don't like anything else they make, but I do however like this one. It offers a lot of features, and my friend has used it quite a bit since he does a lot of side jobs with another guy from work for extra cash.. Also, if you take a look at the reviews, many people feel the same way. I wouldn't hesitate to trade my Dewalt for one if someone ever offered. For the money it's a great buy. You'd be hard pressed to find one with all the same features for the price it's selling at right now.

Also - keep in mind it doesn't sound like the op is looking for an 8 hour a day, 5 days a week tool. If that were the case my opinion would be different. The crafstman I posted is an excellent choice IMO for a mid tier saw, but obviously everyone has different opinions.

 

[Wamsutta]

Anymore comments on the horizontal handle versus a vertical handle?

Most meter saws these days seem to have a horizontal handle to put your wrist in a more natural position.

 

[rrich1]

Anymore comments on the horizontal handle versus a vertical handle?

Most meter saws these days seem to have a horizontal handle to put your wrist in a more natural position.

I purchased the 12 hitachi slider recently. the vertical handle actually sold me on it vs other ones in my price range. some of the ones I looked at didn't have a button to allow for left handed operation easily. the vertical handle allows for left or right handed operation easily.

 

[OrneryDuck]

kctyphoon, your perceptions of my use are spot on. I plan to use it a lot for someone that doesn't depend on the tool for their livelihood. My use case can't compare to a tradesman or other professional that will use the saw day-in, day-out. Like tarbellb, I respect your input greatly as I've seen it scattered about this forum over the years and it has always been sage advice. Love the reference you made, it certainly feels accurate thus far. The only consistency I've seen so far is that the DeWalt 780 is the duck's guts of saws for the home gamer; including from the father-in-law whom has self-proclaimed, DeWalt Yellow Fever. As you noted before, they all come from China now and many are owned by the same Taiwanese corporation. Gone are the days of the accessible fine American or Japanese made power tool.

I've always been the sort to get what I see my practical need for, which says a good 10" slider will deliver on all fronts for me. Despite this two men I respect for their knowledge greatly in my locale (boss at work and the aforementioned FIL) both say, go 12". Both of them are more construction and big projects minded than cabinet finishers, so I believe accuracy and finish takes a backseat to production efficiency of work and capability potential of the tool for them. Hell if I know where I sit; every bench I've seen posted on this site, made with a variety of 10" and 12" saws all look fantastic with well finished ends that look nice and square to my eyes. That tells me any saw will make me happy for my 'garage and exterior home' needs -- though I do want to be able to make some 'nicer' things for in-home, which elevates my concern for accuracy. Sounds like a good blade goes a long way to assuring that.

This decision has been made clear as mud. I knock one off the list and add another on to the list.

I'm not sure how reputable this site is, however there were lots of pictures and analysis given to each saw that I saw curiously absent on many other sites.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10-sliding-compound-miter-saws-tested-reviewed/

This review is what helped me choose the Ridgid to start with before engaging in real users such as GJ, to get the 'I've lived with this tool for years' experiences.

Also a big thanks for the blade recommendations -- sounds like a Diablo is just fine for ripping but a quality hi-tooth Forrest blade will give me cuts I can be proud of -- whatever saw I get, I'll be sure to add a Forrest blade to the order.

 

[videomagician]

I've been trying to decide on a miter saw myself for awhile, and what kctyphoon said ticked all the boxes so I ordered the Craftsman and the stand - picking up this afternoon. Thanks!

David

Just to say it again.. BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.. you might as well ask people what's the best color, or their favorite **** sites.. Your gonna get 12 different answers..

If you don't NEED a 12" saw, I'd stick with a 10.. It's just so much easier to move around, and if you have the money to spend, get the folding stand for a 10" saw instead of spend more for a 12".. Bosch/Dewalt/craftsman might have a deal with getting a free stand so look around.

And just to add to the confusion.. My partner at work bought the compact 10" sliding craftsman.. I gotta admit the thing is really nice.. It has the forward rail design, so they stick out in front of the saw, and not behind it. Makes it much easier to store and use. Also, the stand it really nice. It has a power outlet built into one of the legs.. I don't really recommend craftsman power tools that often, but I gotta tell ya, this saw is nicer then my Dewalt, and my delta.. I'd consider it. The compact sliding design is a big plus, don't overlook it on any saw. And a 10" model will probably do most anything you need. Try not to get caught up in the "bigger is better" ********.. It's not always true.


EDIT:
Here - this is the craftsman I was telling you about. It's actually a "hot buy" right now and has $100 off the price, so it's $199.. Check out the pictures and pay close attention to how the rails are designed.. You can keep this saw flush with the wall behind it, you can't with the Ridgid you picked out.. It's also has the extending slide out tables on each side, and the hold down clamp (that nobody uses), but neither of those come with the Ridgid.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-1...iBWX_6O5q1i1-gRDKwUdSBoC4cfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

And here - the craftsman miter saw stand is also a hot buy, (this one doesn't have the outlet, but for $60 who gives a ****), and almost half price at $59. So you can get a 10" compact sliding miter saw, AND the stand, with free shipping, and like $20 back in rewards points, for less then just that Ridgid saw.. I would def go with the craftsman at this point, if it were me. read the reviews. It's a great saw.. Here's the stand -

http://www.sears.com/search=craftsman saw stand

No one "brand" is gonna be vastly better then another. They are all made overseas, they will all be just as accurate as the next one.. When your planning to build a chapel in Italy, then you can upgrade to a $1200 radial arm saw. Any of what you are looking at will be fine, it's just a matter of taste and trying to get the most for your money.

 

[Mitch1963]

I have a 10" Dewalt and a 12" dual bevel Dewalt. Both are great saws that I use a lot. I used to have a Ryobi that had the vertical handle and I have to say I like the Dewalt horizontal much better. I kinda like my 10" because it is direct drive where the 12" has a belt.