Buying Into 18V "Lineups", Looking For Recommendations

[Skeptic68W]

Hey all,

I currently have only corded tools but am looking to get a Li-Ion 18v drill and impact driver combo. More than anything, I am trying to decide what "camp" to join so that down the road when I expand my tools I have good quality options that use the same batteries.

I am not a tradesman, but I am willing to pony up a little for quality tools that will last many years. They will see a mixture of homeowner projects and mechanic tasks. Maybe I'm building a shed one week and the next I'm zipping off lug nuts or rusty exhaust flange bolts.

Thoughts from my research thus far:

Milwaukee - Good quality, good batteries, like the color, hate the price...especially for chinese built stuff...

Dewalt - Similar to milwaukee in every way but with some tools being US made

Makita - Maybe the favorite for me? I like the idea of some of their things being Japanese built as I've had really really good luck with things built in Japan (motorcycles, tools, etc). Still a bit hefty price wise for my uses.

Porter Cable - Like their impact driver but tool range seems scarce and they aren't that much cheaper than the big 3

Hitachi - I know a few guys who have had good luck with hitachi and I like their water and dust resistant ratings. Little less expansive tool line is a bit of a downer though.

Black and Decker - Expansive tools line and attractive price, B&D has been hit or miss with me over the years so I'm a bit hesitant to buy into their 20v Max system but in all honesty it might be the best fit. It will likely do everything I ever need and cost much less. Can anyone testify to their durability? Good? Bad? Meh?

Masterforce(Menards) - Attractive pricing and decent selection, can't find who manufactures their stuff. Anyone have info on this?

Ridgid - Possible contender. Good selection at a bit of a lower price point than the big 3 and I've heard they have a very good warranty. Thoughts?

Kobalt - 24v brushless for good price, anyone have thoughts on this?

So what do you think. For semi-frequent homeowner use, looking for maximum service life and good battery life what would you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Ryobi, its made by the same conglomerate that owns Milwaukee, and check out the pricing at HD.''

I dont own any, I use my cordless tools to make a living and have almost exclusively Bosch, but if I was going to buy homeowner tools, bang for the buck, the Ryobi line seems like a good value.

 

[Skeptic68W]

How much crossover is there between models from the same manufacturers?

For instance, how likely is it that a "base model" milwaukee shares guts with a higher end ryobi? Or a top of the line B&D shares guts with a lower end Dewalt?

 

[maintguy]

Ryobi. For price and selection you can't beat it.

 

[Voi]

More than anything, I am trying to decide what "camp" to join so that down the road when I expand my tools I have good quality options that use the same batteries.

There seem to be good drills and drivers from all the companies. You really need to dig through the current (and rumored) offerings from each company and see if there are some tools unique to one brand that stand out.

Don't forget to look at yard tools in case you might want to replace gas equipment.

If you have some ideas of tools besides drill/driver you might want it might be easier to make suggestions. Like if you think you'd use a cordless angle grinder or circular saw a lot then we'd probably steer you towards a company that offers brushless versions.

[EDIT] Sorry, you said semi-frequent use.

 

[jfleisher]

Another vote for Ryobi, I have about 20 of their tools and probably 12 batteries...

 

[Cope]

I like DeWalt, but almost all of the manufacturers have good tools.

 

[Skeptic68W]

https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CAB...Brushless-Motor-Cordless-Combo-Kit/1000135051

damn...this is looking hard to beat. Brushless combo with 2 batteries and charger for 129?

I've got an old Porter Cable 7424XP polisher that's treated me really well for years so I think I've got a bit of a soft spot for the brand. Their lineup is a little barren though comparatively though it appears.

 

[L5wolvesf]

My uses are about the same as yours. I got some Ryobi as a gift over 10 years ago and they are all going strong. I've picked up some used tools and batteries too all without any problem.

 

[nh_yota]

I vote for Hitachi. I've had their 18v Li-Ion drill/driver/light kit for 6 years and it works great. Only problem I've had is that the incandescent bulbs in the flashlight are not very rugged, but they're a common size.

Ryobi would be my second choice.

 

[Skeptic68W]

I would imagine that I will end up looking at some yard equipment but not much. I've got gas powered mowing/weed eating equipment that will likely last longer that I will. Maybe a battery powered shrub trimmer...

I'm not 100% sure what I'll end up investing in down the road. It really depends on the location I'm working in as I intend to move several times. I tend to favor corded tools but a battery powered circular saw, possibly miter saw, and grinder could be in the semi near future. I'm really not sure though. The drill/driver is going to be the main thing and will get the most use.

O, sawzall, will almost certainly be buying a cordless one of those.


DeWalt flexvolt is looking kinda appealing but that price....I don't think I can justify it. I'm not using things like a miter saw frequently enough to pay that price to ditch the cord.

 

[Voi]

I'm not 100% sure what I'll end up investing in down the road. I tend to favor corded tools but a battery powered circular saw, possibly miter saw, and grinder could be in the semi near future. I'm really not sure though. The drill/driver is going to be the main thing and will get the most use.

If you think you want a cordless angle grinder I'd steer your away from Porter Cable, even though that's a good deal and the impact is supposed to be decent or better. The grinder is said to a dud last I read.

I have no idea about cordless miter saws. Just not a tool on my radar.

With circular saws keep in mind that Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita only offer their 7 1/4" saws with right sided blades. If you want a left sided blade then you have to go with their 6 1/2" saw.

Personally I find this odd. I would think it would be the other way around but they must know something I don't.

The exception to this is Makita who now has a 7 1/4", left side blade with a setup similar to a worm drive saw (rear handle).

Ryobi, on the other hand, offers a 6 1/2" saw with right side blade, or at least that's what I recall. They then offer a more compact saw with smaller blade on a left side arrangement.

No idea about the other company's in your original post and what they offer for circular saws.

I would encourage you to stay with one battery system if possible with the exception of mixing 12V and 18V from the same company, especially if you can charge both battery types on the same charger.

I have 18V and 12V tools from two companies. So when I go to our cabin I load up two chargers, two battery types and then also have to bring gas for the mower and pre-mixed gas for two stroke chainsaw and trimmer. Maybe my situation is somewhat unique but I really see the advantage of having everything on one battery type. You may be different.

 

[Skeptic68W]

If you think you want a cordless angle grinder I'd steer your away from Porter Cable, even though that's a good deal and the impact is supposed to be decent or better. The grinder is said to a dud last I read.

I have no idea about cordless miter saws. Just not a tool on my radar.

With circular saws keep in mind that Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita only offer their 7 1/4" saws with right sided blades. If you want a left sided blade then you have to go with their 6 1/2" saw.

Personally I find this odd. I would think it would be the other way around but they must know something I don't.

The exception to this is Makita who now has a 7 1/4", left side blade with a setup similar to a worm drive saw (rear handle).

Ryobi, on the other hand, offers a 6 1/2" saw with right side blade, or at least that's what I recall. They then offer a more compact saw with smaller blade on a left side arrangement.

No idea about the other company's in your original post and what they offer for circular saws.

I would encourage you to stay with one battery system if possible with the exception of mixing 12V and 18V from the same company, especially if you can charge both battery types on the same charger.

I have 18V and 12V tools from two companies. So when I go to our cabin I load up two chargers, two battery types and then also have to bring gas for the mower and pre-mixed gas for two stroke chainsaw and trimmer. Maybe my situation is somewhat unique but I really see the advantage of having everything on one battery type. You may be different.

I totally agree and that's the purpose of this post. I don't want to get into a situation where I've got a bunch of incompatible stuff and multiple charger and all that hassle and expense.

I found a few reviews now on those brushless PC drill/driver and I guess they're not that great after all. Not bad, still good for the money but that's for the advice about the grinder.

Man, you guys on this board are really crazy for Ryobi aren't you? I'll look into that brand and see what I think. This is going to sound stupid and childish but I had a hard time getting past the puke green color before haha. I think if they're as good as you all say for the price I can live with it though. Thanks.

 

[SteveL]

Couldn't agree more about the Ryobi color! I'm looking to replace my old Makita drills and would go with the Ryobi line in a heart beat if it weren't for the color. Just looks really cheap to me.

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Man, you guys on this board are really crazy for Ryobi aren't you?

My opinion only, I dont think anyone is " crazy " for ryobi, I think they are " crazy " about the bang for the buck, and selection of tools, not to mention the price of the batteries.

Its not a level playing field, and Ryobi shines above the rest from a value stand point. Your money goes far.

I dont own a single Ryobi tool, but even I can see the numbers, and if the tools work,... who gives **** what color they are.

 

[ddawg16]

My opinion only, I dont think anyone is " crazy " for ryobi, I think they are " crazy " about the bang for the buck, and selection of tools, not to mention the price of the batteries.

Its not a level playing field, and Ryobi shines above the rest from a value stand point. Your money goes far.

I dont own a single Ryobi tool, but even I can see the numbers, and if the tools work,... who gives **** what color they are.

Another Ryobi 'nut'.

All my cordless and about 3/4" or corded stuff is Ryobi. It built my garage and 2-story addition. I like my drills....variable speed...with 2 gear speeds. In low, I can run lag screws into wood.

I have 4 lithium batteries....I use up one....swap it out...I've never ran them down fast enough to where I didn't have a battery recharged in time.

And my weed whacker uses the same battery...

Bottom line....it's a great value....and they have about the largest selection of cordless tools.

 

[nh_yota]

Not everyone needs a $60k pickup to bring home plywood from Home Depot. Same goes for tools.

 

[ddawg16]

Not everyone needs a $60k pickup to bring home plywood from Home Depot. Same goes for tools.

That is a very good analogy......

 

[TheGrooveking]

Not everyone needs a $60k pickup to bring home plywood from Home Depot. Same goes for tools.

That's about middle of the road price wise.

TheGrooveking

 

[Jhoff310]

Another one for Ryobi. I have my set from 15 years ago still going strong. My set has been ABUSED!! I recently purchased a new drill/ Impact driver set to get the new LI-on batteries and charger (which is dual chemistry, so it charges both NiCd and LiOn). My in-laws got me the 4 1/2" angle grinder for christmas. I have to say I am impressed.
My son has a rigid set (which is made by Emerson electric...which owns the conglomerate that makes Ryobi, hence why it's only available at Home depot). I like his set, but I love the fact that Ryobi has so many more tools to offer. Yeah, their green color *****...but you wont lose it in the dark.

 

[nh_yota]

That's about middle of the road price wise.

TheGrooveking

I was aiming for Milwaukee and Dewalt, not Festool and Metabo.

 

[Skeptic68W]

So I stopped by lowes a bit ago and they had a ton of drills and impact drivers on display to play with.

I really fell in love with 2 of them.

The first was this set
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...r-Drill-Impact-Driver-2-0Ah-CX200RB/207051121

The very compact design would be idea for my mechanic work and would allow me to use it in areas I can't use my impact wrench. Not a big deal as I'm usually a hand tool guy but it might speed things up from time to time which would be nice.

It had a nice feel, nice balanced weight, solid, grippy, but compact. It felt very quality. The drill is a plastic chuck which isn't great but it is what it is. It'll probably be fine.

Makita has a nice, expansive range of other tools and should be more that sufficient for my needs.


The other ones I loved was this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...t-2-Tool-with-Free-Battery-2691-22P/300833655

Now that brushless designs are all the rage, the older brushed style has come down significantly in price. These brushed milwaukees felt awesome in the hand. Heavy duty without being bulky and they were super quiet but felt extremely powerful. They aren't quite as compact as the makita kit but they are 30 dollars cheaper, quieter, come with 3 batteries instead of 2, and I liked the feel of the other m18 tools they had on display vs the makita versions (slightly).

I checked out the ryobi stuff and while I'm sure they are fine, I didn't care much for them. They feel very bulky and heavy. I don't mind the extra heft, but they simultaneously felt cheap while feeling heavy. The size of the drill and impact are both significantly larger than the milwaukee and substantially larger than the compact makitas.

Realistically, the Ryobi combo kit is only ~60 dollars cheaper than the milwaukee one and it only has 2 batteries vs 3. To me, I would rather buy into the Milwaukee or Makita for that difference.

Dewalt - Kinda disappointed in their "lower end" offerings. Just didn't have a great feel to them. Certainly not on par with the $200 Milwaukee kit

Ridgid - Huge, bulky tools, bigger than the ryobi. I could see the sheer size being a problem on lots of projects. Also not that cheap. Pass.


Makita vs Milwaukee

I'm going to have to think about whether I want the smaller size and brushless motor, or the quieter operation, bigger torque (milwaukee has a couple hundred in-lb more torque in drill and impact) and the extra battery. The extra batter deal shows as a special buy on home depot's website (today only) but I saw that exact kit in the store for 199 so I'm not convinced it's super special. The Makita will likely have longer battery life per battery being brushless but the milwaukee has the extra battery so it's kinda better in that department.

 

[jd_1138]

Wow, tough decision. Too bad that Makita only has 1,250 in-pounds. My 2 year old brushed compact Makita impact driver has 1,450 in-pounds. But 1,250 is probably fine for 98% of what you will throw at it. You'll probably want to pick up the cordless impact wrench, anyway, for HD tasks on a vehicle so that'd make the Makita impact driver's 1,250 in-lbs OK because you can just use the impact wrench instead for HD stuff.

I think I'd get the Milwaukee kit. Also, there's nothing wrong with getting into a 2nd battery platform. A lot of us have 2 platforms -- a sort of more premium brand like Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita for drills and a cheaper brand like Ryobi, Ridgid, or Porter-Cable for tool categories that aren't crucial/used much -- jobsite radio, multi-tool, recip saw, lights/lanterns, etc..

For HD sawing, I have a corded Craftsman Sawmill circular saw and a corded Makita reciprocating saw.

 

[Voi]

The very compact design would be idea for my mechanic work and would allow me to use it in areas I can't use my impact wrench.

Makita also makes an impact that is an inch shorter than the sub-compact you handled at the store. I believe it is the most compact impact wrench on the market and has torque similar to the M18 Fuel.

But the bare tool for just the impact is probably more than the entire sub-compact kit. Sadly I'm not joking.

http://toolguyd.com/makita-impact-driver-dtd170-6-modes/

So technically you don't have to decide between compactness and torque. You have to decide between spending the money or not spending the money.

I think in the US market it's known as the XDT12M.

 

[Skeptic68W]

Wow, tough decision. Too bad that Makita only has 1,250 in-pounds. My 2 year old brushed compact Makita impact driver has 1,450 in-pounds. But 1,250 is probably fine for 98% of what you will throw at it. You'll probably want to pick up the cordless impact wrench, anyway, for HD tasks on a vehicle so that'd make the Makita impact driver's 1,250 in-lbs OK because you can just use the impact wrench instead for HD stuff.

I think I'd get the Milwaukee kit. Also, there's nothing wrong with getting into a 2nd battery platform. A lot of us have 2 platforms -- a sort of more premium brand like Milwaukee, DeWalt, Makita for drills and a cheaper brand like Ryobi, Ridgid, or Porter-Cable for tool categories that aren't crucial/used much -- jobsite radio, multi-tool, recip saw, lights/lanterns, etc..

For HD sawing, I have a corded Craftsman Sawmill circular saw and a corded Makita reciprocating saw.

I feel myself leaning towards the Milwaukee as well. For some reason it just felt like it would last a little longer to me, possibly due to it's less compact design. The brushed motor doesn't have to be revved nearly as high.

To make a comparison, the Makita felt like a hopped up 300hp Honda inline 4. High revving but still powerful nontheless. The Milwaukee by comparison felt like a 300hp Big Block Mopar. They may make similar power, but that mopar isn't working anywhere near as hard. I realize that scientifically the brushless motor isn't working less hard than the brushed, but that's just kinda how it felt using them.

Lower price, added battery, lower noise and operating rpm, and slightly more "premium" feel...I am leaning Milwaukee.


I see your point about the "less essential" items. Since you buy most of this **** in kits anyways maybe that's the way to go.

 

[Skeptic68W]

Makita also makes an impact that is an inch shorter than the sub-compact you handled at the store. I believe it is the most compact impact wrench on the market and has torque similar to the M18 Fuel.

But the bare tool for just the impact is probably more than the entire sub-compact kit. Sadly I'm not joking.

http://toolguyd.com/makita-impact-driver-dtd170-6-modes/

So technically you don't have to decide between compactness and torque. You have to decide between spending the money or not spending the money.

I think in the US market it's known as the XDT12M.

That is cool and would be awesome but you're right, not very financially feasible for me.

 

[Skeptic68W]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-1...Lithium-Ion-Battery-CX200RB-BL1820B/301174966

Guess they have the makita kit with a bonus battery too for the same 229 though...

 

[King Nothing]

I like my Makita hammer drill and impact set. I intend on buying more tools from the lxt platform. That being said my buddy is a construction pro and he's big on the dewalt 20v max tools, and they seem to be about half a step above my Makita when we both have them out at the campground. My brother in law swears by the Ryobi, and he uses them all the time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skeptic68W]

So I went to Lowes and ended up talking to the guy working the tool desk(who was super knowledgeable surprisingly) for quite a while.

He got to talking about this Porter Cable kit https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CAB...Brushless-Motor-Cordless-Combo-Kit/1000135051

and how they couldn't keep them in stock because they sold so fast. He said he hadn't had any returns or warranties on them. The only downside was that the 1.5 amp batteries are small and don't last super long and the drill doesn't have the belt hook on it and no way to easily add one. Other than that he was a big fan and was fairly certain there was a lot of carryover from the higher end Dewalt stuff.

I liked the PC stuff a lot actually. It feels a bit cheaper in the hand than the Milwaukee and Makita but they are substantially cheaper so it's to be expected. I think they look great and offer a really good value for money. Still may end up with that kit or maybe this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/PORTER-CAB...ion-Cordless-Combo-Kit-with-Soft-Case/4751832

The 2nd kit is a brushed design but it's got battery indicators and belt hooks on both tools and I think I could get it for around 135 (It's 150 on amazon and lowes will beat amazon price by 10%)


We talked about Hitachi which he felt was a pretty safe bet but not really a standout.

We talked about Dewalt which he felt to be very overpriced (I agree)

We then got to talking about the new Kobalt 24v MAX line.

All their stuff is brushless and comes with 2 amp hour batteries vs the 1.5 on the porter cables. They carry a 5 year warranty but even crazier...a 1 year "satisfaction guarantee" meaning you can use it for 364 days and then return it for no reason other than...don't like it.

He said that he's sold a lot of the 24v stuff and only had 1 return. It was a 1/4 impact driver and he said the guy brought it in and it was clear that it had been dropped off a roof or something but they let him warranty it anyway. The employee sent the unit itself to lowes corporate and instead of being rebuilt, they sent him a brand new one(2 days turnaround and a different serial number confirmed new unit). So he had a brand new impact driver but a slightly used battery/charger/bag/etc. I believe he said from the receipt date the unit had only been purchased like 2 weeks before it was warrantied so the battery had some scratches on it but everything was nearly new.

Anyways, he ended up selling me this impact driver kit for 90 bucks (159 retail). I'm not sure if I'm going to end up keeping it, but the specs are impressive! 1800in-lbs of torque. It's a nice little driver.

Thing is, if I end up adding their 24v drill/driver to the mix and paying retail(129), even with the heavily discounted impact driver I'll be at $220 total investment. For the same money I could have the Makita sub compacts, or for 20 less the brushed Milwaukees with 3 batteries.

The Kobalt may be going back...

 

[rick carpenter]

Several votes here went to Ryobi. Not too long ago Ryobi was considered as a semi-disparagingly "homeowner" line. Have they upped their game, or have people realized the "homeowner" label to be less than accurate?

 

[Rarified27]

Another guy's opinion...

Tools are not required for my job, but my ability to use them for equipment maintenance and building everything from carts to wiring harnesses and rare plumbing applications saves a ton of money in our budget. I don't consider this to mean i use tools to make a living, but I certainly use them enough to know my tools well.

After years of the above, I settled on the M12 and Ryobi 18v.

M12 travels everywhere with us and I've never had a failure after some odd types of abuse. Ryobi stays at home unless I have a specific task to complete.

I have a DeWalt DC720 from years ago down to it's last XRP battery which I'll retire when the battery dies.

The m12 and Ryobi 18v were the best choices for quality and price in my world. I couldn't justify the m18 for any reason.

Last summer we bought and renovated an entire house down to the studs with nothing more than the m12 and the Ryobi/Dewalt were only used when I had extra hands to help.

 

[Skeptic68W]

I actually just realized that if I buy the kobalt drill I'll be at 220 total investment but I'll have 2 2amp hour batteries and two chargers so I'll always have them topped up and I could add a third battery for only 20 dollars where each 2 amp hour battery from milwaukee or makita is 70 dollars. Maybe I will give this kobalt stuff a shot.

 

[Skeptic68W]

Dear lord, you can buy 1.5 amp hour kobalt batteries for 10 dollars! For a DIY guy like me, a couple of these cheepos lying around is perfect.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: I LOVE MY RYOBI 18v tools especially with the new batteries (my batteries are almost 2 years old and i can't recall charging them that much and i use them a lot.

the new batteries also work the old blue Ryobi tools that you can pick up fairly cheap on CL.

 

[rharman]

They're all good. As others have said, Ryobi wins on price point. Shop around and get the feel of all of them. Wave them around some. You'll notice differences in the grip and balance. That'll help your decision.

I prefer DeWalt and I'd recommend the 20V Li-Ion.

 

[txvwnut]

I'll vote Ryobi too. I've got a pretty good selection of the 18 volt stuff and the only one I don't really like is the circular saw. The rest of the stuff has been tough as nails and don't let me down. The blade tends to wander when cutting thick boards, I'm not sure if it's due to using a thin kerf blade or just flex in the shaft or body of the saw.

 

[DFB]

My vote today is for the Spaceman Spiff Porter Cable 20V max brushless driver and Impact set for $129


Plus they also have a lot of bare tools you can add on with too if you want to expand

Several different saws are available, lights, radio, multi tool, finish nailer, even a half decent impact wrench

Probably find the tools for sale in more places than Big box store house brand.

You can even get a knockoff 3.0 battery on Amazon for just $25

 

[drivesitfar]

TX & ALL: i have to agree the Ryobi 18v skill saw is a nice light duty saw, but i burnt one up cutting 1.125 inch thick plywood. i broke another one cutting some old siding getting ready to take it to the dump too. other than that i've had some of my old Ryobi 18v tools for 10 or more years seems like and even though the first batteries were **** the new batteries work in those old tools perfectly now.

if any of you have some lite chain saw work to do (anything under 8 to 10 inch) i LOVE my Ryobi 18v chain saws. keep the blades sharp and they cut right straight through tree branches and small logs. it looks like a toy, but i sold my small Stihl chainsaw when i found out my Ryobi worked this well.

cheers

 

[Skeptic68W]

My vote today is for the Spaceman Spiff Porter Cable 20V max brushless driver and Impact set for $129


Plus they also have a lot of bare tools you can add on with too if you want to expand

Several different saws are available, lights, radio, multi tool, finish nailer, even a half decent impact wrench

Probably find the tools for sale in more places than Big box store house brand.

You can even get a knockoff 3.0 battery on Amazon for just $25

O snap, I didn't notice the budget battery options for the PC. I was just thinking that as much as I liked those, they only came with 2 1.5 hour batteries and the porter cable replacements were really pricey. Thanks man!

 

[Skeptic68W]

So here's how everything ended up shaking out.

I've decided to keep the Kobalt I got for a bargain and purchase 1 additional 1.5 amp hour battery, bringing my total impact driver cost to 100 with 2 batteries, charger, bag, etc.

I went back to Home Depot today to look at drills and they had this kit: http://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-2...hless-Compact-Drill-Driver-DCD777C2/207105622 on sale for $105 so I bought it. I'm not a huge dewalt guy but this is a super nice piece. Very well balanced and great ergos/grip. I'm thrilled with it.

Now, for a $205 total investment, I've got a fully brushless combo kit with 4 batteries, 2 chargers, 2 bags, and the ability to buy bare tools from 2 different brands without buying more batteries or chargers. Need an angle grinder? Sawzall? etc. I can price out Kobalt or Dewalt and go with what fits my needs and budget.