buying my first welder, need advice

[bigberg]

okay so im buying my first welder and im looking for something not too expensive. I plan on using it for pretty basic stuff like exhaust repairs and some basic fabrication. right now I have it narrowed down to 3 but im certainly open for input:

lincoln 140hd weldpack on craigslist for 375$

Hobart Handler 140 on craigslist for 350$

Northern Industrial 135 for 260$

what are your opinions on what I should get

 

[GoBlue]

I would go with the Lincoln number one and the Hobart number 2. The only reason i rank them like that is Lincoln seems to be a brand i see more in automotive shops. I am more of a fan of Millers myself as thats what i have used the most and what im most comfortable with. Any chance of getting a decent price on a used one of those blue beautys?

 

[bigberg]

ive been looking around but havent been able to find any at all. Ive even done a little looking into the hobart 125v. all of them claim the max thickness is 3/16" so im not too inclined to spend more coin for a little more power.

 

[Outlawmws]

There is claiming 3/16, and then actually being able to pull it off.

I'd stay with the Lincoln as the first choice.

 

[bigberg]

what makes the lincoln so much better?

 

[jasonreck71]

i vote hobart...

 

[jasonreck71]

i vote hobart...check out the Northern tool website tons of reviews...

 

[ChargedUp!]

I have the Hobart handler 140 and it works well for sheet metal and misc stuff I use it for. They go on sale quite a bit at Northern that includes the cart. Miller owns Hobart too so I'm not worried about anything for home hobby use.

 

[tyndall]

The Northern is a really good little welder. Mine has made a few trailers. Never any problems.

The downside is the price seems to have gone up enough to make the Hobart a viable alternative.

 

[USMCdodge]

I know lincoln makes a good welder. I would head in that direction. I don't have experience with hobart but i have herd a lot of good stuff and it appears to be a solid machine and if its anything like a miller than its awesome.

 

[bseant]

Doesnt miller make the hobart line?

 

[Outlawmws]

what makes the lincoln so much better?

Lincoln as far as I know still uses top grade copper for the transformer. Copper is better at conducting electricity, and at dissipating heat than aluminum. Lincolns are built like tanks, and last dang near forever. I've owned and used Millers, and used Hobart's and what I now own is Lincoln all the way. MIG, and AC/DC arc.

Many imported welders out there are using aluminum windings, which is how they can make and sell them so cheap...

 

[buening]

From what I recall, Miller does make Hobart and it is their economy line of welders. The general design is the same between the two, but a Hobart may have a plastic part wheras the Miller would be steel.

 

[antinym]

I don't think you can go wrong with either the hobart or the lincoln. The northern tools would also work fine, but we most off brand items, you may run into problems getting it repaired or finding replacement parts.

Mig machines are pretty simple, so I don't think you'd have any real quality issues in your welds with any of your choices.

 

[antinym]

Also, I have the Hobart 187. I picked it up just in case I needed to weld thicker items, but 98% of what I need to do would be fine with a 140 class machine.

 

[diesel research]

I NEVER (hardly ever) see lincolns around shops (fab included) anymore. Seems to be blue or white as far as you can see. I trained on lincoln 375, and that was probably the last time I saw red anywhere, except for the old monster 500amp stick welder we had.

BUT I wouldn't be hesitant of any of them. The 140 range could debate both ways. Some homeowners get advanced enough where they could benefit from 180, others can make due with multi-pass 140 or are mainly doing something thin. Duty cycle or how many minutes continuous plays some part as well.

Take a long look at what exactly you envision yourself doing with it, so you don't buy one and then regret it because it was too small or spent too much for bigger one that wasn't needed.

 

[89GLH]

I'd go with one of the Big 3 - Lincoln, Miller, Hobart (regardless of what parent company makes which) and make sure it can be converted for gas. This thread is very close to which is better, SO/Matco. People have their allegiances to each brand.

 

[WR250F]

Lincoln as far as I know still uses top grade copper for the transformer. Copper is better at conducting electricity, and at dissipating heat than aluminum. Lincolns are built like tanks, and last dang near forever. I've owned and used Millers, and used Hobart's and what I now own is Lincoln all the way. MIG, and AC/DC arc.

Many imported welders out there are using aluminum windings, which is how they can make and sell them so cheap...

I've seen some mention of the Home Depot/Lowes versions having aluminum windings on the xfmr. I don't know this to be true as I haven't actually opened one up and looked, but locally, you almost can't give away a big box store Lincoln in the Weld-Pak 130-140 range. We see them regularly on CL and at swap meets priced $150. They sell to home users, sometimes, but I don't recall ever hearing of an experienced welder opting for one of the big box store welders.

I'm not implying in the least Lincoln welders aren't excellent welders because they are, but from what I'm told, there is a difference between a 140 class welder ordered from Lincoln or a welding supply house that is a distributor and the Home Depot version.

FWIW...

 

[ephotrod]

I would skip on any of those three choices because they really can't accomplish anything with that amount of amperage. As you start welding you will find yourself wanting more power. Save your money and look on Craigslist for a Miller MM250, 210, 211 ,212 or the Lincoln equivalents. Yes these machines require a 220volt power source pulling an max of 50 amps. But these machines are capable of safely providing enough power to accomplish a task and not having to worry about penetration. (please note skill is required on the users end to achieve penetration and a good overall weld. Pretty isn't always good.)

One other thing with this class of welders parts are available and usually worth fixing if needed. The upgrades are there as well. Store bought welders such as those found in Home depot, Lowes, and tractor supply can't always be repaired and are more difficult to find parts for and someone willing to repair them.
Josh

 

[cide1]

The Miller 211 can run off 120 or 240. Max thickness on 120 is 3/16". I have had my 211 for about 18 months, and love it. I have welded a lot of 1/4" doing chassis stuff on cars and general fabrication. It is, however, a bit pricier than the other models mentioned here. I think it is going for about $1000 including gas regulator, a spool of wire, some tips, and cable for both 120 and 240 power. It can be upgraded to weld aluminum with purchase of a spool gun.

If you really want to keep the price down, I would pick the Hobart over the Lincoln based on reviews I have heard. If you could spend a bit more, I would get the Miller 211.

Don't forget to make sure any purchase includes regulator, and tank of gas. I never tried flux core, but I understand it makes for ugly welds.

Welding is hard enough with good equipment, so spend the money to set yourself up for success.

I would skip on any of those three choices because they really can't accomplish anything with that amount of amperage. As you start welding you will find yourself wanting more power. Save your money and look on Craigslist for a Miller MM250, 210, 211 ,212 or the Lincoln equivalents. Yes these machines require a 220volt power source pulling an max of 50 amps.

 

[buening]

If you really want to keep the price down, I would pick the Hobart over the Lincoln based on reviews I have heard. If you could spend a bit more, I would get the Miller 211.


Welding is hard enough with good equipment, so spend the money to set yourself up for success.

I would have to agree. Spend as much as you can budget for a welder and also keep in mind they don't really depreciate. Even a used Miller 211 will fetch $1k from what I've seen locally. For a cheaper alternative, Hobart makes a 210 that uses either 110v or 220v and is similar to the Miller. I believe it goes for around $800 in the store, but have seen them on ebay go for $600 NIB.

 

[rocklobster]

Seriously consider getting a 240v machine, you will not regret it.

CRY ONCE!

 

[38Chevy454]

You can turn down the power on a higher amp welder, such as the 240v models, to do thinner materials. You can't turn up the smaller 120v machines if you need more than they have maxed out. I agree to get the larger welder and then it will be useful for anything you do. You can also use smaller diam wire for thinner and then change to bigger wire for the thick stuff.

Small 120v machine will do exhaust fine. I would strongly suggest to make sure you get a gas shielding set-up. Flux core is harder to learn and is a lot messier.

 

[bigberg]

The other problem is I'm only 17 and trying to save most of my money for college. My parents most likely wouldnt let me spend much more than about 400 because I just don't have a large need for a welder. 220 is out of the question, I just don't have access to it.

 

[1984Datsun]

Hobart... it's made by Miller anyhow. The gun on my Hobart says plain as day, 'Miller' on it.

Only differences are no Auto-Set and plastic drive roll/motor holding assembly. I figure if the plastic feeder bracket part ever broke, you could order the metal Miller one and it should be easy to pop that into the Hobart.

The majority of real welders hate the Auto-Set feature on the Millers too. Hinders understanding of proper settings and such.

I've had my 140 for a couple of years now... I love the thing. Paid for itself by now, I imagine.

Did exhaust work with it, and many little fab/repair jobs on stuff around the house and barns.

I'd personally stay away from the Lincoln unless you can prove it didn't come from a big box store... they put cheaper parts in them to make the price closer to the Hobarts. I've heard people have more trouble with them as a result of the cheaper parts.

Any of the big three are good, if you want the 'real' answer. Miller, Hobart, and Lincoln. Stick with one of them and you'll be okay for the most part.




As for material thickness, there are tricks around that, like preheating. It helps a lot to set the machine to the max volts and higher wire feed/amps on the thick stuff as well. With some precautionary measures like preheating, tight joints, and practice, 3/16" is not out of the question. You can also stick a box fan next to the welder when you're running it up in the higher/thicker metal settings, with the side cover removed to help cooling of the circuit board and reduce the likelihood of the thermal switch tripping the duty cycle due to excess heat.


I also bought this welder with my own money... graduation money. Obviously buying new meant around 650 with every accessory and such that I bought to get started.

Practice with it, and at some point if you can, take a welding class through a local CC. You'll learn a lot, especially from a truly good welding instructor.

 

[rocklobster]

I'd personally stay away from the Lincoln unless you can prove it didn't come from a big box store... they put cheaper parts in them to make the price closer to the Hobarts. I've heard people have more trouble with them as a result of the cheaper parts.

Any of the big three are good, if you want the 'real' answer. Miller, Hobart, and Lincoln. Stick with one of them and you'll be okay for the most part.

In my real life experience I have a Lincoln Mig Pac 15 (240v) welder bought from Canadian tire and the thing is awesome. Never a problem with it in the 7 years that I have owned it. The only difference that I have found between the Big box models and the weld shop models was that you could get a infinite voltage adjustment instead of the standard tapped (oh and $$$ difference).

I have ran this welder very hard since day 1 and have never found any weakness or met the end of duty cycle, all parts are original.

 

[bigberg]

the more I look at it the more it seems like any big brand 115v is the same in capabilities. will a hobart 125 perform the same as a 140 with flux core

 

[GirlnAgarage]

Go with a 220V machine if at all possible. I've got a small 110v and have started thinking about a new welder. I'm doing more projects with 1/4" and I'm running into duty cycle limits. Someone up there mentioned you can always turn down a 220V machine but it's tough to turn up a smaller unit. This is true. You can have a few cheats to help, like lots of beveling, preheating and multipasses. But that adds up in time and consumables.

As for fluxcore, it's all I use. Granted I haven't ever used gas Mig but fluxcore isn't as ugly or scary or hard as many make it out to be. A weld isn't good simply because it looks pretty. One has to take the time on technique. FC slag chips off really easy and clean if you're settings are right. Also consider that with fluxcore you can weld hotter than with gas mig. Anyway, I like the fluxcore process. It's like stick with a gun. I find FC easier than stick as I don't have to adjust my position a lot as the rod burns down. I can keep a steady stickout distance. But I'm welding with one hand so YMMV. FC works for me. No heavy bottle I need to worry about dragging around, loading or unloading. Just a big spool, load, point and shoot.

Another consideration is your welding environment. Fluxcore is more versatile in windy or dirty areas, especially outside. Similar to why stick is good for onsite stuff. You don't need gas to protect the integrity of the weld puddle.

Anyway, do your homework and go with what you need.

 

[Jay H 237]

Between those I'd go with the HH140.

I have owned a Millermatic 135 since 2004, I believe it's now the 140 and the equivelent as the Hobart unit you mentioned. It has been great for my needs. I don't do heavy fabrication so I have yet to find it inadequate. I do run gas on it, 75/25 and suggest getting the largest bottle you can as it ***** when you run out in the middle of making something.

You, and only you, can decide what machine will fit your needs.

 

[shorin]

I've also got a Miller 135, and I can't speak highly enough of it. I bought it around 2003, and it gets well used. This size of welder is perfect for the things you mentioned you'd be welding as I typically do similar things with mine. For exhaust work, etc., you don't need a 220V welder. I've welded up to 3/8" with mine - you just have to do multiple passes...

Then, I'd suggest a TIG/Stick welder as a 2nd welder down the road. It gives the higher power for structural work (stick), and the ability to weld aluminum, etc. with TIG I've got a Sycrowave 200 and a Syncrowave 350LX (new aquisition - haven't even tested it yet), and I've been very pleased.

Danny

 

[Outlawmws]

Basic specifications between the two 140's and the 125 are close, but the 125 is still smaller, and has lower voltage and Amperage peaks.

However, the Lincoln has infinitely adjustable voltage output, allowing much finer adjustments compared to both Hobart's 4 position settings.

The Lincoln also has the capability og going to the smaller .025 wire the Hobarts don't support.

Weight differences between the two 140's is negligible, however the 125 is about 8 Lbs lighter. This is either due to a smaller (lighter) transformer or, possibly, one wound of aluminum. before you decide to go with the 125 verify that, as there will be performance penalties with an aluminum core.

 

[diesel research]

I hear several people always mentioning welding exhaust.

I used to build special exhaust systems for the emissions test dyno cells, but what on an exhaust are people welding? Is this like temporary crack repair? I highly doubt they (most?) are doing v-band or bolted flanges? Are they welding multiple bends? Most of the rest of the exhaust system requires very little if any welding during normal service? I do concede that hanger welding is necessary in some climates. I sure hope they aren't welding mufflers to the pipes, that is annoying.

 

[Outlawmws]

I hear several people always mentioning welding exhaust.

I used to build special exhaust systems for the emissions test dyno cells, but what on an exhaust are people welding? Is this like temporary crack repair? I highly doubt they (most?) are doing v-band or bolted flanges? Are they welding multiple bends? Most of the rest of the exhaust system requires very little if any welding during normal service? I do concede that hanger welding is necessary in some climates. I sure hope they aren't welding mufflers to the pipes, that is annoying.

As sophisticated benders become more available, certainly fewer welded joints are required, but for the small muffler shops, welding is the fastest way to get a fairly complicated exhaust system fabbed and a combination of bends and welded joints especially at the mufflers and converters are used.

A few years ago I transplanted a Suzuki Swift GTI into a Samurai, and I tossed the entirety of the old Samurai exhaust system out, I actually carefully morphed the larger diameter swift exhaust into a new configurations by carefully cutting and readjusting it from the stock Swift (which was a transverse engine config) to the samurai.

I placed the cat near the original Position, added a new better muffler, and adapted the two to one exhaust pipe off the manifold to a new direction (I had to add some parts from a different Exhaust pipe) to get it turned 90 deg from its original directions. there were a couple of places I deliberately added bolt flanges for future repair work, and all in all I was happy with the results.

Of course I'm not running a muffler shop so reusing prefabbed bends was necessary, as the benders I do have only go as large as about an inch, and this was all 2" stuff.

So the answer is yes, welded joints, bolted flanges, etc are all used. but mostly bent up systems is what I see in pro muffler shops. And of course the crack repair and hanger mounts.

 

[ncfh]

AFAIK they all have aluminum windings and aluminum wiring. It really does not make any difference with this class of welder anyway.

AFAIK they all have plastic feeders with plastic gears. Not ideal at all, but no one offers a metal feeder in this class of machine.

And according to the table Outlawmws posted they all have a 20% duty cycle. Two minutes on, eight minutes off. For a hobbyist it's likely fine, but OMG I would cry.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all low end consumer grade welders will have limited factory support in the distant future, Lincoln, Miller, doesn't matter. But then the mechanical parts are probably all very similar. And the widespread proliferation of these cheap machines means spares will likely be available second hand. The quality of those spares... who knows.

Otherwise, play with all three. See which one welds the best for you. Compare warranties, and then go with your gut. If you think you will probably upgrade in a few years, go cheap.

If you don't need a machine immediately, peruse CL, the auction scene, and your local classifieds for a 220 machine. You'll get metal feeders, better regulation, better arc characteristics, the ability to use larger (cheaper) spools of wire, a more robust duty cycle, the power to weld almost anything a hobbyist or farmer would need, and long term parts availability.

The only thing I would look out for with a used 220 machine is the low end, if you intend to do a lot of sheet metal work. I know some of the older 250 machines did not go any lower than 30-40 or so, not ideal for autobody type stuff.

 

[Outlawmws]

Well, Lincoln has slipped down to with the rest of the industry for 120V welders, this is a response from Lincoln to my question about winding materials:

The transformer windings in the 120 volt, 140 amp machines are aluminum. The transformer windings in the 230 volt, 180 amp machines are copper.

Since the Hobarts weigh about the same, I'd guess they are also aluminum...

Glad I got my SP125 Plus back when they were still copper...

 

[plinker]

I bought a Hobart 187 after getting talked out of an Auto arc 130 (which was is an Miller brand welder from whats been said)

I could have gotten by with the 130A welder for what I needed, but Since I had the capicity of the 187A welder, I've used it.

FWIW, In my experiance, I have not seen many wire feed lincolns around here, mostly Miller or Hobart. Lincoln stick welders are another story.


On welding exhaust pipe;
I done it, mainly to add adapters to existing pipe and to splice some short sections together for my Brother.
I would not advise welding the whole system solid though, too hard to remove if it's got to come out.

 

[tyndall]

The Lincoln also has the capability og going to the smaller .025 wire the Hobarts don't support.

Really? Even the Northern can do .025. That's what I usually keep loaded.

 

[Outlawmws]

Really? Even the Northern can do .025. That's what I usually keep loaded.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/

 

[tyndall]

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/

In the pdf spec sheet it says what settings to use for .024 and lists tips, liners and drivers for .023-.025.