buying steel? variable prices?

[houstonch73]

I'm new at welding and have built a couple shelves and such but nothing major. I'm definitely still learning. I need to ask if my experience buying steel is "normal".

First I called the closest steel supply (that I know of) to my house. Steel Supply in NW Houston. (http://www.steelsupplylp.com/) I asked how much a piece of 16ga, 1" square steel tubing costs. Btw, it comes in 24ft lengths. The phone salesman immediately said "$15 a piece". I explained I was drawing something up, just more simple shelving and needed to know for that. Later on I went to the NW location to buy the steel.

Any time that I have been there in the past, I've noticed that nothing in the storefront is priced. And anytime you ask one of the counter guys about price, they click on the computers, click around some more, hesitate, think and then say a price. It seems like they don't have a price sheet they refer to but instead maybe check cost and then size you up and determine what to charge. Today pretty much played out that way. I told the salesguy I wanted 5 pieces of 1" square 16ga. He clicks, clicks some more, hesitates and finally I say that I had called earlier and was quoted $15 a piece. He immediately says "oh, ok, so that's what you were quoted? That's cool". And then he punches it in. I laugh and tell him "nah....maybe it was $14 a piece" and he pauses and says "let me see what I can do".......more sighing, clicking around and finally says "I can give it to you for $14.90". I laughed and said "wow......really appreciate the 50ct price break on the 5 piece order your'e sliding me". He then says "well hang on.......ok.......I can do $14.20". At this point I'm convinced he's pulling numbers out of his head. I said thanks and that I appreciate it as every little bit counts."

Get my ticket and on the way to the pickup area I see some welding machines, carts and such. I spy a nice little cart that I could use and sure enough, no price on it. I ask another salesguy. He starts punching around on the computer and (pointing to the screen I can't see) asks another guy "is this that cart over there" and asks how much is it. The older guy walks over looks at the screen, the cart, then finally at me before looking at the screen again and says "It was on sale last week for $110 but its $130 now. We can still give you that sale price though." Well I didn't come for a cart so I said thanks and let me get this job done. While waiting for my steel to be loaded I look it up online and see it almost everywhere for $75 normal price and with some research I finally find it for $50. I understand just like ammo at the gun range, things like this will be more expensive but I seriously believe I was sized up and the price was pitched.


So to get to the point........is it normal for a place to have a price sheet that they can refer to? Or are all steel sales like buying a used car? Is there somewhere online where I can see what is the going rate (generally) for steel? The way it is now, I ask a price and short of driving around and finding some other shops, I have no way of knowing. The guys there seem nice enough but I really feel like I'm getting screwed. And more specifically, any recommendations for steel supply places in Houston TX?

 

[crewchief888]

steel prices vary from day to day, (or the did, a few years ago )probably the main reason you wont see any prices posted.


and they may well be "sizing you up".

i typically get my best prices when i'm not asking for anything in particular, and will take what they have that will "work" for me at the time.

 

[Pooch897]

I don't know about this place but steel prices change daily. If there is a local scrap yard near you I would go see they will sell you steel. It's $.20-.30 per lb in my area. You wouldn't believe what people scrap.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Every work trades supply house I have ever dealt with does this. Different prices depending on who you are, and how regular a customer you are. Setting up a cash or credit card account seems to help in several aspects.

 

[Falcon67]

Steel is a commodity and priced as such. It can vary by day and week. The local supplier will mark it up as much as they think the local market can stand. FWIW, try buying 24' of 16 ga 1" square tube at Lowes and see how cheap you got that stuff. When I buy, I use the same place, just ask what the joint price is for what I want and pay it. (all joints run 24'). Sometimes places give you one cut for free. The supplier I use does that. They will also sell cuts for the going rate as opposed to what you'd pay for a full 4x8 sheet of something.

 

[38Chevy454]

As stated, steel is a commodity and is priced as such. Generally it is priced per lb, and depending on what wall thickness and length, that determines the price. Some configuration and shapes may be a small bit more, but it really just comes down to weight on most steel.

Cut charges depend on the supplier. It is probably also a factor of how much you are buying. some smaller places may let you go through their "drops" and sell pieces cheaper if you buy the stuff that would otherwise become scrap.

Buying at the local scrap place can get some great deals, but depends on the place if they even sell. Some are buy scrap only and do not resell any.

 

[mtldealer]

My family has a small metal service center in Los Angeles... Steel Tube .065 x 1" x 1" x 20' we sell for $13.00 per 20'
Prices have been getting more expensive lately. I sell to walk in guys for $13.00, I have customers that buy bundles at a time anyd the price for that is approx $11.00 for each tube but consider that when your buying 75 at a time it adds up. Just my 2 cents.

 

[DIC]

Might check out Triple S Steel or Rose Steel

 

[RedneckWelder]

Steel prices vary, and as far as supplies go those prices vary, too. I have a business acct at my welder's supply store and get stuff priced for lower vs. the higher consumer pricing.

Same thing with places like Grainger. Harry the homeowner is going to get the high price while if I walk in and tell them my employer's name it's a lower price for me.

 

[dogdog]

Lol that guy must have Liked you, did you winked ?
I usually get the communist treatment, "what do you want? how many ? this is the price go paid at counter"

 

[Danver]

I usually get the communist treatment, "what do you want? how many ? this is the price go paid at counter"

 

[dogdog]

lol that is about what it is when I get there, was so much nicer when I called them on the phone.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Be friendly, offer to take some bundled deals, see what happens. Buying steel is sort of like being at a garage sale. Some prices are fixed, some are not. They might give you a break if you're buying in larger quantities.

The cutoffs are always a good deal. I've always come home with miscellaneous stuff just to have on hand for those quick projects. I like to have various tubing in different sizes, 1-2 foot long. Same for square tubing. If you get the stuff that telescopes into other sizes, all the better for making jigs and tools.

Angle iron is something I always have on hand. 1"through 2". Buy it in 20 foot lengths, get it cut into 10' lengths and stored under my 10x10 shed. I never know when I'll need it and driving 20 miles to get it is awkward, especially when the shop closes at noon on Saturday!

 

[The mean fish]

Might check out Triple S Steel or Rose Steel

Yep, in the Houston area it's going to be really hard to beat SSS prices on normal full stock like 20' sticks of whatever. If you're looking for drops or partial pieces of stuff you simply can't beat Rose Steel but don't go there with the intention of just looking around because you'll (a) buy a bunch of stuff you don't need and/or (b) you'll find something you like and it'll be gone when you come back to buy it.

I've bought steel from SSS for the last 10 years, I can't say I've ever had a problem or not been happy with my purchase or their service. They also support a ton of groups around the city that do non profit work.

 

[grifter679]

i go to a place near me and I know im getting ripped off, he charges me 1.50 per lb + 2.00 per cut, I usually just go for off cuts that are laying around and he charges me 1.00 per lb. now specialty products like DOM are a total ripoff. I get my material from a guy up north and I purchase it online and his rates come in close to half of what i get locally. but as far as i can say, the prices for me have been pretty much steady for the last couple of years.

 

[Bib Overalls]

We have two steel suppliers in our area. One has no interest in the small guy at all. The other is very accommodating. Prices are good, free delivery in the area, and if you want to look at drops they will find a yard hand to take you around. As said before, everything is priced at the time of sale. We have an account which helps on the price I think but the parts I like best are the assistance provided in finding suitable drops and free delivery. I always hate buying a full stick and then paying to have it cut so I can carry it in my pickup. My guy gives you one free cut per stick. Special orders are expensive no matter where you go. LTL shipping and handling ads up fast.

 

[mybuick6]

place i get mine is http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm

 

[tomphot]

I've worked my entire career in steel business, we are the mill and sell to the distributors.
Most large distributors do not want to deal with the walk-in trade, it cost them about $300 to process an order so you can see why.
There are a large number of small distributors around, in the Atlanta area, SteelMart comes to mind. In many cases on many items, they are not buying enough o buy from the mill so end up buying from the large distributor and then dealing with walk ins. They make large margins as a result.
Since 1x1x16ga is being used as an example, the cost that I sell that for in 45,000# TLs is about $50.00 cwt (.50/lb) or about $8.00 for a 20' length. After that item passes through a number of hands, you can see how the prices may vary. If your calling one of these companies and want 10 pcs and they bought it from another company and are quoting you $15, what are they making on it? Maybe $50?
So a guy has to write up the order, a warehouse guy has to pull it, a shipping guy has to load it for you and the accountant has to account for it.
I don't see how they really made any money on it at the end of the day.
It wouldn't surprise me at all they try to get as much as they can for those small orders.

 

[houstonch73]

I've worked my entire career in steel business, we are the mill and sell to the distributors.
Most large distributors do not want to deal with the walk-in trade, it cost them about $300 to process an order so you can see why.
There are a large number of small distributors around, in the Atlanta area, SteelMart comes to mind. In many cases on many items, they are not buying enough o buy from the mill so end up buying from the large distributor and then dealing with walk ins. They make large margins as a result.
Since 1x1x16ga is being used as an example, the cost that I sell that for in 45,000# TLs is about $50.00 cwt (.50/lb) or about $8.00 for a 20' length. After that item passes through a number of hands, you can see how the prices may vary. If your calling one of these companies and want 10 pcs and they bought it from another company and are quoting you $15, what are they making on it? Maybe $50?
So a guy has to write up the order, a warehouse guy has to pull it, a shipping guy has to load it for you and the accountant has to account for it.
I don't see how they really made any money on it at the end of the day.
It wouldn't surprise me at all they try to get as much as they can for those small orders.

Now that's great insight! thanks for sharing. I have no problem paying a premium as I'm a tinkerer and I know they won't really make any money off me. I just wish we could see what that "premium" is.

 

[mesquiteforge]

Steel prices have gone up 15% this month. Steel suppliers that I deal with in South and West Texas say that we should expect another 15% by end of year..

 

[chevroletfreak]

Steel prices have gone up 15% this month. Steel suppliers that I deal with in South and West Texas say that we should expect another 15% by end of year..

That's messed up because our scrap price has dropped from $210/ton to $150/ton within the last month. I would think the new price would follow. I'm not too far from you in OK.

 

[lilscorpion]

That's messed up because our scrap price has dropped from $210/ton to $150/ton within the last month. I would think the new price would follow. I'm not too far from you in OK.

In my experience, even buying in bulk as a mfg, I rarely was told the price of steel is down but often was told prices are up. Regardless of the reason it always felt like dirty sales...like they were putting the screws to me. Personally I always felt it was more greed based pricing than following the price of steel and that the price of steel was used as a reason to charge more for what was in inventory instead of what was paid for what was in inventory.

Gotta buy a lot and often and build a relationship and shop around often. They need to need your business - and that's why counter sales in small volumes don't go well for anybody.

 

[Orange65]

place i get mine is http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm

I used to buy from them and Discount Steel, but I have found that my local steel supplier, Tigrett Steel, will beat them- sometimes pretty badly- without asking.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I recently bought a 40 foot piece of S6 x 12.5 I beam for 77 cents a pound. This had to be special ordered in as it was not their stock item. They cut it to my 25 foot length to allow me to haul it myself and loaded for no charge. They would have delivered the three miles for me for $25, but I wanted to back the beam inside my shop for easier handling during fabrication of my hoist rail. There are two suppliers within 3 miles of my shop.

 

[tomphot]

Steel prices have gone up 15% this month. Steel suppliers that I deal with in South and West Texas say that we should expect another 15% by end of year..

I'm involved in Steel, not stainless, Alum, brass etc.
In beams, channels, tube, flat bar etc, in general, there has been a slight increase for the whole year of less than 10% - we do Not anticipate much more with regard to increases for the balance of the year.
I work for the steel mills so I'm talking about the prices we charge tot he distributors and OEMs.
With regard to scrap, we pass along what's known as a scrap surcharge as a part of the variable portion of our price that varies monthly and depends on the published scrap prices as listed in the AMM.
In 2013, that surcharge avereraged $11.98cwt or $.1198 cents per pound with the monthly high being $13.50 and low $11.00.
In 2014, that surcharge has averaged $12.42cwt, so not really much different from last year. To go even further, the overall surcharge average form '10 to '13 is $10.99cwt.
What most people are familiar with is what the local scrap dealer will pay. That market is about the most shady one around IMO and has more to do with how much is on the ground than what the mills are paying for scrap.

 

[Tanshanomi]

My local shop here in Kansas City, http://metalbythefoot.com is great. They have all their prices published on their website, even though they don't do online sales. When I go in, I always get that price with no haggling, and they do my little onesy-twosy purchases quite pleasantly.

 

[AMCguy]

My advice is (if you are generally satisfied with your supplier) keep going there and paying what they're charging you (within reason) until they get to know you as a regular and on a first name basis.

Then as a regular customer or "fabricator" ask to set up a cash account and get some pricing in place.