Buying tools for a new mechanic.

[n8n]

Does a thread like this exist? I tried to search, but if it does, the magic combination of keywords didn't show me exactly what I was looking for.

Reason I ask is I started doing a writeup that I was going to give to my shop owner friend because he has two new mechanics with a very basic set of tools, and I don't want to see them in indentured servitude to the Snap-On man (even though he's a nice guy, and there are some things that are well worth buying from him) because they're going to have to buy a whole lot of stuff in the near future. The reason I feel qualified to do this is because I'm a cheap bas... I mean person of a frugal nature, I've used and bought tools longer than some of them have been alive, and I actually have managed to accumulate what would probably be a low end but serviceable starter set of tools for a new pro mechanic without paying anywhere near tool truck prices.

I was going to have three basic sections; first, how/where to find good deals on tools (with a couple links to GJ threads, e.g. the tool truck equivalent thread, the hot deals subforum, and the HF pass/fail thread, and a general suggestion to watch GJ itself) second, a brief suggestion to keep things organized, inventoried, and pick up after every job if possible so nothing gets lost, and third, a prioritized list of tools to buy for someone starting out with nothing.

If a thread like this doesn't exist, perhaps it should... and since I myself am not a professional mechanic if it *doesn't* exist, I think I'd want to submit my rough draft to you all for review and comment before handing it out as a definitive guide.

 

[ScottsGT]

Tough call since there are so many specialized fields to go into. Foreign or domestic mechanic? General fix it kind of guys? Transmission R&R guys?
I'm not a pro, just your typical driveway gear head that's built a few domestic motors and a few restorations under my belt. But as an example, I did some reading up on changing the timing belt on my wifes old Honda Odyssey. I bought the special socket to spin the balancer and to remove it. I thought I was well prepared and went out one cool December morning to get started. Went to remove the serpentine belt and discovered that the Honda Odyssey requires a special tool just for that!
I shut the hood and took it to Honda.......
Yea, it was a humbling experience.

 

[Adam.C]

With the utmost of respect, I'd recommend caution. Like you, I have amassed an impressive and capable set of tools cheap. But my situation (possibly like yours) is different enough from kids starting out as pro technitions that I would fear we could do more harm than good.

What I think new techs need most is truck service for tools they may likely break or lose. Anything that compromises that could damage their opportunities. So that's my 2 cents and my warning. With that said, I recently contributed to a thread you might find of interest.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241198

FWIW, I have a shed load of Snap On tools I bought mostly on ebay in like new condition for half price or less. I also (perhaps like you) chose Snap On only for certain tools. Stupid stuff like pick-up tools, mirrors flashlights are almost always marked up rebranded asian stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere. I don't care for their power or air tools either. And any tool which:
a) is disposable
b) you have a back up for
you can get from HF without too much concern. I would put prybars, deadblow hammers, scrapers, in that category. Just so happens, I have Snap On versions of all that. But I don't think a kid starting out needs a Snap On dead blow hammer. When you can buy something that works for $8, the $70 model can wait. I think I feel the same about ratchets. Yes, I like my dual 80s, but there are a lot of nice ratchets out there that cost a whole lot less. I have never broken a ratchet or seen one broken. I have worn them out, had them skip and bust my knuckles. That makes me appreciate my dual 80s more.

They may well need Snap On (or whatever truck services them) sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers, bit sockets, and extensions. I'd be inclined to recommend they skimp on pliers, hammers, prybars, specialty tools (brake spring tools, bleeder wrenches) even impact sockets. But they should get good flare wrenches.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I'm just remembering a saying my dad used to tell me, "The road to Hell is strewn with good intentions". (crazy thing to tell a kid)

 

[n8n]

Yeah, for the guys I'm trying to help this is a general service shop, heavy on brakes and oil changes, light on any real internal engine or trans work. Just trying to get them started. Agree that truck service is good, but the problem is these guys really need to get equipped soon, so probably getting something that works now is more important, then later they can buy the good SO stuff and move the stuff they're buying now to backup status. I do agree with a lot of what you say though and I'll try to take that into account.

 

[Adam.C]

With your reply in mind, I think I would stubbornly recommend truck bit sockets and maybe screwdrivers at least (just based on my own experience). If you round out phillips or torx head screws, the next step *****. If you rounded a hex head bolt with a cheap socket, at least you have a second chance with a vise grip.

With your knowledge, you should be able to narrow down the list of must haves. For me, any sort of interior work, heck, just replacing a light bulb requires a good set of torx, and metric allens. Could possibly get away with replacable hex bits for that.

They would need high quality bit sockets for brakes tho. Maybe flare nut wrenches. I think I'd buy them before combination wrenches.

You can google tool requirements for tech programs around the country. You will find several good lists of basic automotive tools reqd. As I see it, your wisdom comes in when you start recommending how high quality those tools must be, where to get good deals etc. For example, I find Bluepoint rarely a good deal. BP stuff is typically taiwan quality at US prices. Tho it's not as pretty I think some of the HF stuff is as good. Or gearwrench.

 

[richfinn]

Get them to join GJ and research the best deals for them.

You would likely get a 1000 different lists if you asked a 1000 mechanics what is a good basic tool kit??

Personally I have a mixture of USA truck tools, European brands, extinct British brands, homemade tools, inherited stuff and internet bought stuff I learned about on GJ.

I don't use SAE tools

I like cordless as I work out of a van

Diagnostic equipment is more important to me than engine tools like filter wrenches etc as I deal with breakdowns and dead batteries etc

 

[joedodge]

Hands down they need to buy the best they can afford.simple as that

 

[n8n]

Excellent idea to look @ trade school web sites. That helps a lot, then I just need to prioritize and as you say point out the places where quality matters, e.g. flare wrenches, etc.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk

 

[firebox40dash5]

Hands down they need to buy the best they can afford.simple as that

I disagree. I'll take 90% of the quality for less and have more tools, in many cases. If I can make do with Sunex sockets (just as an example) and use the money I saved not buying Snap On to buy something else I need, I'd much rather build my collection that way. Odds are incredibly good that I'll be able to get more done with more decent tools than I can with the bare minimum of awesome tools.

I just replaced my metric impacts with Matcos for example. There was honestly nothing terribly wrong with even the Chinese Craftsman impacts I had, I just wanted to upgrade. I've got some Matco ADV & Gearwrench impacts, and the boss has a bunch of Sunex impacts, and they all hold up well. Chromes... I wouldn't buy anything Chinese, but I'd consider Taiwan. I have old US Craftsman there, so I'm of no help on that one. Fixed combo wrenches are one place I'd try hard to stay US... I'm trying to figure out exactly what the "affordable" option is there myself.

I've had amazingly good luck with Gearwrench regular bit sockets. I've got metric hex, torx, and security torx, and I somehow haven't broken one. My T55 is admittedly about to twist off... after my boss got stubborn on a Silverado caliper bolt with my 3/4 impact gun.

 

[joedodge]

I said the best you can afford. Im a pro diesel tech.......guess what I got a ton of kd, sunnex, gp, gearwrench and so on. That's the best I can afford. I didn't say buy snap on just the best you can afford and still feed the family and live comfortably

 

[GTA Matt]

I disagree. I'll take 90% of the quality for less and have more tools, in many cases. If I can make do with Sunex sockets (just as an example) and use the money I saved not buying Snap On to buy something else I need, I'd much rather build my collection that way. Odds are incredibly good that I'll be able to get more done with more decent tools than I can with the bare minimum of awesome tools.

He didn't say buy the best. He said buy the best that you can afford. That varies for every person, no two peoples budgets are the same. Edit, Joe treed me

Personally, I would recommend sourcing out the original manufacturer for the tools that the trucks rebrand so you can get a quality tool for sometimes less then half. But wear items or easily broken items should be purchased in a fashion that they are easily warrantied.

 

[n8n]

Excellent idea to look @ trade school web sites. That helps a lot, then I just need to prioritize and as you say point out the places where quality matters, e.g. flare wrenches, etc.

OK that didn't work

this was the only list I could find

http://www.morrisville.edu/programsofstudy/schoolofscienceandtech/automotivetechnology/tools.aspx

I see some things missing, but it actually isn't a bad list... but are there any others? Doesn't look like Wyotech, Lincoln, UTI etc. post these kinds of lists online.

 

[n8n]

And any tool which:
a) is disposable
b) you have a back up for
you can get from HF without too much concern. I would put prybars, deadblow hammers, scrapers, in that category.

Unless they've changed in the last 10 years, HF pry bars aren't even safe to use.

Now I bought the 3 piece set of Craftsman from the recent sale for myself, so I get what you're saying. But I remember a friend bought a similar HF set years ago and they all literally bent on the first real use. Complete junk...

 

[Fretters]

...before handing it out as a definitive guide.

That's something which never has, and never will, exist. Regardless of industry, there's no one rule which fits all. Type of work, personal preference, working style etc., all will contribute towards what's necessary and desirable.

The age old method works as well as it always has done. Start with the necessary basics and then get whatever else you require as and when you need it.

 

[87FoRunner]

I would unload a can of whoopass like mechanicnamedjohn did at harbor freight. Replace and upgrade as necessary.

With $2,000-$3,000 (depending on diagnostic and specialty purchases) you can have a lot of ground covered and 'almost' every tool for the job.

John's thread can be found here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67850&highlight=Hot+deals

Things I would buy off the tool truck right out of the gate: snap on TLL72, FLL80, and 36" breaker bar. Blue point just released a ~87 torx, hex, and etorx setup that is amazing. Add some Ball peen dead blow hammers and purchase other things as you come across them in the field.

 

[n8n]

That's something which never has, and never will, exist. Regardless of industry, there's no one rule which fits all. Type of work, personal preference, working style etc., all will contribute towards what's necessary and desirable.

The age old method works as well as it always has done. Start with what you need then get whatever else you require as and when you need it.

Ah, but that violates one of my first rules of tool buying to save money - buy the tool BEFORE you need it so you can price shop, get the best price/quality balance, etc. rather than being at the mercy of what NAPA will deliver to you that day.

I do understand what you're saying though. I can't even imagine trying to attempt to put something like that together that would fit every mechanic in every kind of shop; I was thinking of one specific shop in particular, and just trying to get together a checklist so when guys have a little tool money to spend they spend it on a) quality stuff and b) tools they'll actually need and use.

 

[Fretters]

Ah, but that violates one of my first rules of tool buying to save money - buy the tool BEFORE you need it so you can price shop, get the best price/quality balance, etc. rather than being at the mercy of what NAPA will deliver to you that day.

I can understand the reasoning, but it can also work against you on occasion. I'm a Yorkshireman, so we're well acquainted with the concept of nipping a currant in quarters to save a few bob, but a preemptively bought dead use tool is money which could have been spent on something which is needed. It's swings and roundabouts. The method may work or it might well bite you on the ****, but only time will tell.

I tend to be somewhat in the camp of start with necessities and buy what's needed as and when, these days. I will occasionally get stuff I don't technically need as yet, but that tends to be if the chance arises to get the kit at a price which makes it pretty much an unmissable opportunity.

 

[RCStocker]

Everyone is right. Each individual will have a different opinion.
For a beginner doing service work all you need is a good set of Craftsman tools. Yes, Craftsman. They do the job just as well. Buy good ratchets. Although my Craftsman VF ratchets are so smooth they are the first one I pick up. I have over 100 ratchets and I have all the brands. Fine toot ratchets are a must in tight places but for general service work you don't need them.

I served a tool and die apprenticeship with GM. l All my tools Were Craftsman with a few SK and other brands in that I picked up used. I used them for years rebuilding machinery, repairing farm machinery and doing construction. I only had one fail and that was a socket with a 3 ft. cheater bar. I never took time to notice how the wrench felt in my hand. I was busy working. I now have a full line of Snap-on that I have picked up for pennies on the dollar through the years. They don't work any better than any of my other brands and I own them all. Ratchets make a huge difference but not on simple work. There are so many specialty tools now that did not exist 40 or 50 years ago. My fine expensive tools don't get the job done any faster and I did not spend much money on tools to make a living.

Go on Craigslist and buy a couple of sets of Craftsman tools and buy the specialty tools on line when you need them. You can get anything you want, need in a short time when ordering on line.

Pox on tool trucks. It is not how much one makes but how much one saves that makes the difference.

 

[Coach James]

This is from our local community college tech program.

http://www.sandhills.edu/programs/automotive/systems/tools.php


Coach

 

[n8n]

Everyone is right. Each individual will have a different opinion.
For a beginner doing service work all you need is a good set of Craftsman tools. Yes, Craftsman. They do the job just as well. Buy good ratchets. Although my Craftsman VF ratchets are so smooth they are the first one I pick up. I have over 100 ratchets and I have all the brands. Fine toot ratchets are a must in tight places but for general service work you don't need them.

I agree with this more than you'd think; a lot of my sockets that I still use came from a Craftsman mechanic's starter kit that I bought when I was still in college. A lot of those tools have been used harder than you'd think a non-pro would ever use them. However today I would rather buy used Cman from the pawn shop than the Chinese stuff in the stores... at the same price. I put my money where my mouth is too, I still buy sockets at the pawn shop. Maybe in 10 years we'll realize that the new Cman stuff isn't that bad but are you willing to take the chance?

One of the recommendations that I was going to make was when buying sockets to skip the 1/2" drive chrome ones and go straight to impact. Reason being that there's no law against using a ratchet or breaker bar on an impact socket, but there ought to be vice versa, and you're going to eventually want an air gun anyway. Then buy the chrome sockets later after you have all the real needs filled. Very rarely do I need a 1/2" socket and an impact won't serve.

 

[JDon99]

This thread is helpful, but my question is, do these guys have their own tools already? If it's a basic service environment, it doesn't seem to me like they will have to amass a ton of tools.

 

[MRunabout]

Your friend's shop doesn't have a master tech or shop foreman? If he does, I'd ask him for what his most used tools are and grow from there.

I would buy tools based on the services that the shop offers and what type of vehicles they service.

1/2" gun
3/8" gun
1/2" and 3/8" standard and deep, chrome and impact sockets (sometimes you need a thin wall socket)
3/8" impact swivel sockets and maybe 1/2" if they need it (standard and deep)
screw drivers
pry bars with striking ends (love my Craftsman set)
3/8" long handle
extensions
ballpeen and dead blow hammer
1/2" breaker bar
Oil filter removal tools (I have about ten)
hex sockets, torx sockets, e-torx sockets
digital multimeter, test light
1/2" and 3/8" torque wrenches
combination wrenches
grease gun

 

[Adam.C]

The age old method works as well as it always has done. Start with the necessary basics and then get whatever else you require as and when you need it.

I guess the question before us is "What are the basics?" Here's my crack at it:

If you are working on passenger cars in the US, you probably need mm and SAE. I could suggest specific sizes for specific manufacturers but why bother. I'll quote mm. SAE sizes generally fall in the same range.

SOCKETS
For sockets, I find I use 6 or 8 to 13mm in 1/4" drive (don't work on Asian cars much so I don't use 12,14mm and almost never 15mm in 1/4 if I see it at all). The biggies are 10, 13, 17, 19). They are going to need 8 or 10 to 19 in 3/8" drive. Obviously extensions in a variety of lengths. I like the SO wobble plus (may be the only one). A decent set of extensions and one really short wobble can work. I'm skipping ratchets and breakers…obvious. Do really like the 26" Dual 80 SO ratchet. I use that as my breaker. 750ftlb capability- that's roughly 300lbs of pull on the handle (which is achievable). You have to be careful, but used sensibly, it's fast, strong, and fits places a rattle gun won't.

I don't generally use adapters or universals, but I'm shopping for SO shallow uni-sockets. I use VERY FEW deep sockets. Use them more in lieu of extensions.

I have chrome 1/2" sockets in 12 pt for brakes etc. 12mm-24mm. Otherwise all my big sockets are old craftsman impacts. I would choose Grey Pneumatic or Williams without hesitation.

WRENCHES
They'll need roughly the same range of sizes in combination wrenches (8-19mm at least). I do not recommend ratchet wrenches to beginners. They are nice to haves, not necessities. Tho I think if I had to recommend any, I'd choose the EZ-red/Bluepoint double box flex longs for serpentine belt changes. Very handy. I have the non flex SO hi performance versions, but just too expensive for beginners. They will need larger wrenches in time. The Snap On Flank drive plus are the best open ends on the market (in my opinion). Does Williams have the same patented end? That would be a good alternative.

Last in this group are flare wrenches. I'd start with metrics and…dare I say.. a good set of vise grips. I only use Snap On flare wrenches. I find they fit better than others.

BIT SOCKETS
Next, for modern cars, they will need hi quality allen sockets- I have a range of lengths from stubbies to long ball ends. 3-10mm at least. May need the large sizes for drain plugs etc, but those tools are so big you could get away with Lisle. I don't view allen keys or even Tee-handles as suitable substitutes for allen sockets. When you need an allen socket, its good to have.

Etorx E4-E18, they'll use E8-12 the most. Regular torx, T10 or T20-T55. I see a lot of T20-T30 in interiors and body work. T50 on brakes. May need triple squares 8-14 or so for German cars. Could spend A LOT of money here.

SCREWDRIVERS
Good screwdrivers (especially P1, P2 in a variety of lengths). I love the Snap On cabinet length screwdrivers but only have 2. Use them for hose clamps. Probably need PZ, but I see these more in furniture/stuff around the house. A lot of young techs I see are using cheap but powerful cordless drill drivers or impact drivers and replaceable hex bits instead of traditional screwdrivers. May be the right suggestion for new young techs.

PLIERS
I find it best to avoid using pliers on cars unless absolutely necessary. And I hate vise grips with a passion. I think they destroy everything you put them on. I would recommend the Knipex Cobras. I had a set of Craftsman Industrial channel locks that I loved and wore out. That wide range of sizes allowed me to grip just about anything. Very handy. Knipex plier wrench is nice too. Almost could use that in lieu of flare wrenches. I think it's the worlds best adjustable wrench. Highly recommended (but they are expensive). Snap ring pliers, I like fixed tips, use Knipex. For drum brakes, my weapon of choice has always been duckbill pliers. Won't start a job without them. I think needle nose in a couple different sizes are necessities.

STRIKING
Prybars, hammers, chisels, drifts, punches, both center and roll pin. Could use HF for these.

INSPECTION/PPE
Shop lights, pick up tools, mirror, safety glasses, face shield, rubber/nitrile/latex gloves. Stock up on all at HF.

SPECIALTY STUFF
O2 sensor socket, brake tools, bleeder wrenches, steering wheel puller, battery tools. Sears? Lisle? Tooltopia? I like those thread chaser sets (Kastar/Craftsman/Snap On all the same.) Don't get a cheap set tho, or you are liable to do more harm than good. Mini picks (HF). Hose picks (?). Don't skimp on cheap Chinese spring compressors. You can get really hurt with these.

ELECTRICAL:
Digital Multimeter (Chinese Fluke 15 or 17B)? Used Snap On? (required for some auto classes), crimper, dikes, stripper (I like the automatic kind- I have the new Knipex and it's awesome for automotive since you don't need to see what you are doing). Jury is out on the Weller gas fired soldering iron. Prefer electric for enclosed spaces. I always seem to have the exhaust either burning my hand or melting the plastic (seat, door panel) that I'm working under. Nice for heat shrink tho. Mini electronic pliers- nice to have. Jumper wires. I bought a cheap IR thermometer on ebay from China and I really like it. Great to figure what is hot (and how hot) before you stick your hand near it.

What did I miss? That's enough from me anyway. Hope some of this helps.

 

[W0rLDWaR4]

Your friend's shop doesn't have a master tech or shop foreman? If he does, I'd ask him for what his most used tools are and grow from there.

I would buy tools based on the services that the shop offers and what type of vehicles they service.

1/2" gun
3/8" gun
1/2" and 3/8" standard and deep, chrome and impact sockets (sometimes you need a thin wall socket)
3/8" impact swivel sockets and maybe 1/2" if they need it (standard and deep)
screw drivers
pry bars with striking ends (love my Craftsman set)
3/8" long handle
extensions
ballpeen and dead blow hammer
1/2" breaker bar
Oil filter removal tools (I have about ten)
hex sockets, torx sockets, e-torx sockets
digital multimeter, test light
1/2" and 3/8" torque wrenches
combination wrenches
grease gun

This is a pretty good start, I would just grow from there.. but then again depends what type of field you're into etc.

 

[n8n]

Your friend's shop doesn't have a master tech or shop foreman? If he does, I'd ask him for what his most used tools are and grow from there.

yes it does and we're also friends. Discussions between he and I were where the idea for this came from, as he's basically stated that he's going to start locking his roll cabinet when he's not there, and he's encouraged me to do the same with the tools of mine that I've left at the shop, so the noobs need to start buying their own stuff soon. He'll definitely be involved in this after I get a rough draft done, and he'll have the final say on whether or not it gets handed out.

I would buy tools based on the services that the shop offers and what type of vehicles they service.

1/2" gun
3/8" gun
1/2" and 3/8" standard and deep, chrome and impact sockets (sometimes you need a thin wall socket)
3/8" impact swivel sockets and maybe 1/2" if they need it (standard and deep)
screw drivers
pry bars with striking ends (love my Craftsman set)
3/8" long handle
extensions
ballpeen and dead blow hammer
1/2" breaker bar
Oil filter removal tools (I have about ten)
hex sockets, torx sockets, e-torx sockets
digital multimeter, test light
1/2" and 3/8" torque wrenches
combination wrenches
grease gun

yeah that is actually a pretty good short list, my draft actually has more stuff on it, only thing you have that I don't is swivel sockets, I don't think I've ever used one, ever. But I could see how they could be problem solvers, I just personally haven't run into those specific problems. I don't think I'm ready to post anything yet though, gonna work/think on it a while longer.

 

[MRunabout]

That's good. I would have been really worried if a shop were to start out and only have two noobie techs with limited tools.

If I were to add to that I'd suggest:

3/8" pneumatic ratchet - almost never have a need for a 1/2" or 1/4" and it really comes in handy when working on transversely mounted engines while doing belts and whatnot.
Brake tool set for the front and rear - My car has rear calipers that screw in and I've worked on a Mazda 3 that needs to have the caliper compressed while being screwed.
Flare nut wrenches
An assortment of pliers and cutters
Adjustable wrenches, locking pliers/vise grips (looking at buying a set of Knipex but a newbie probably wouldn't need a set).
I can't believe I forgot this but you definitely need a decent flashlight
Some sort of magnetic or telescoping pickup tool
Telescoping, adjustable inspection mirror
Mechanic's stethoscope
Tap and die set and thread restorer set
Two and three jaw pullers...maybe a puller/installer set

 

[n8n]

This thread is helpful, but my question is, do these guys have their own tools already? If it's a basic service environment, it doesn't seem to me like they will have to amass a ton of tools.

Unfortunately, it appears that they literally have the bare minimum of tools that they needed to purchase for their trade school classes. But can't really look down on them for that when they're just starting out.

 

[illmatyk]

There was an article I had read in Grassroots Motorsports that had a list of tools that beginner/novice mechanics should have or get, that is what I based my purchases on. I bought as needed originally and when I had the extra money I added on also. I'm trying to see if I can find the article online, if I do I'll post it up.

Here it is:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/shop-talk/

 

[n8n]

OK, bringing this back up, just because some of you provided excellent input and maybe you want to see what the finished product looks like.

I think there was one change made from rough draft to handout, nobody at shop really provided constructive criticism :/

feel free to use and modify if you have similar needs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/59jdgzo120pfztz/tools.doc

Edit: dropbox disabled my link for some reason, try this one.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6yit5jhrdhjdqyy/tools.doc

 

[aducharme]

As a start out mechanic basic tool sets are a great start. As far as saving money and great deals The snap on truck isn't the best route. I suggest craigslist harbor freight and sears for some craftsman. Buy as you go if you have to borrow it tn you need to buy it buy buying a ratchet from the snappy guy for 200 dollars as apposed to sears for 30 is crazy if your a new mechanic. Over time with more experience that's when you go with mac macto snappy ect. I've been a mechanic for going on 7 years professionally and my box is filled with a combo of brands from HF to Snap on. No need to blow 1000's right away.