Buying used construction equipment

[crf731]

I have an opportunity to buy a fairly new skidsteer in great shape with low hours.

I don't really need it but the guy selling it is hurting for money and he is asking for about half of what it is worth. I don't know the guy but he is the friend of a business aquaintence.

My concern is that it may have been stolen or he is trying to sell it and stiff the bank on money owing on it.

Other than him showing me a bill of sale from when he bought it, is there any way for me to check and see if there is a lien on it, or run the serial number somewhere to see if it is stolen?

This is in TX if it matters.

 

[zkdiesel]

Call dealer with vin number and have him check it against stolen/lein/repo due vehicles

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Get the county sheriff to run the VIN, then if later it does show up stolen somehow you can show no criminal intent.

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

Both of those are good ideas, if it is stolen the local dealer will likely have it flagged. We have a system where if someone calls for parts they must provide a PIN (product ID Number, same idea as VIN) if it's stolen it flags on the computer.

Skid steers are very handy to have, do what you need so you can still enjoy looking in a mirror.

 

[DonPowers]

I bought a used excavator a few years ago, from a similar situation, and requested the owner to bring it to a local dealer for inspection, as a condition for the sale. He had no problems with bringing it there and the machine checked out.

 

[crf731]

Where would I find this PIN / product ID number on the machine?

He sent me a photo of it and there is a number above the Cat/Holt sticker that starts with ZZY

Would that be it?

Both of those are good ideas, if it is stolen the local dealer will likely have it flagged. We have a system where if someone calls for parts they must provide a PIN (product ID Number, same idea as VIN) if it's stolen it flags on the computer.

Skid steers are very handy to have, do what you need so you can still enjoy looking in a mirror.

 

[kingstrider]

I bought a used excavator a few years ago, from a similar situation, and requested the owner to bring it to a local dealer for inspection, as a condition for the sale. He had no problems with bringing it there and the machine checked out.

This is a good idea.

 

[jkwilson]

Skid steers are pretty easy to sell, so I think you are right to be suspicious. I'd think he could take it to his dealer and get half what it's worth with no hassle, so it smells all kinds of fishy to me.

 

[kd3pc]

If you have limited experience with these machines, make sure you have someone (dealer) check it out...they can be costly to repair, and many things only show up as you use it, or multiple inputs at one time.

 

[Raytheone]

If there is a lien, there should be a UCC filed with the TX Secretary of State. Looks like it costs a dollar to do a search.

Hope this helps

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

The number you mentioned is likely the PIN. On some machines it is on the left side of the frame behind the cab, or on the rear of the cab above the window, or inside the cab just above where your right foot would be.

 

[cat-mechanic]

Where would I find this PIN / product ID number on the machine?

He sent me a photo of it and there is a number above the Cat/Holt sticker that starts with ZZY

Would that be it?

If it is a Cat, then call Holt Tractor and talk to them about it.

I don't see any skidsteers that start with the serial #ZZY. It will be a 3 digit prefix and then 5 numbers. Some machines use numbers and letters as a prefix.

Feel free to message me the Serial # and I can have the guys at work look into it as well.

 

[crf731]

Thanks for all the info so far.

I haven't had a chance to go look at it yet as I'm kind of swamped with trying to get another project done by the weekend.

Here is a photo of it that he sent me, has 250 hrs on it. Does anyone have any experience with one like this?

Good, bad, anything special to look for?

I'm not sure on the year but a quick look on equipment for sale sites, put the value anywhere between 27,000 and 50,000 depending on the year and hours.

 

[NUTTSGT]

250 hours, looks that nice and he only wants half of what it is worth ? Either the dude has a serious money issue right now or it smells like carp, you have every right to be suspicous about the sale.

If everything checks out, I think you could flip that thing quite easily.

 

[Red05GT]

My concern would be that he has a lien on it and wants the cash and may or may not
continue making the payments on it. There are plenty of equipment brokers that would
pay him a decent wholesale price for it to flip. Just smells a bit to me.

 

[SchuLace]

The number above the Holt sticker is your SN. YYZ, not ZZY.

We had an issue similar to this a while ago. Guy was looking at a SSL and we figured that the owner hadn't been paying the bank for it for a while and no one could get ahold of him. It got repoed

 

[jlckmj]

Unless things have changed since I bought my bobcat, there are no titles on machinery like that. So if there is a loan on it, he could sell it with a bill of sale. BUT, he or his business is still responsible for paying the amount due.

He could be trying to beat the bill collectors before going bankrupt?

Jim

 

[TonkaJoe]

Coming from an Operator with numerous years of experience on these and many other machines, CAT makes a really nice skid steer, and this is definitely a good piece of iron. At 250 hours it's already due for a service.. if it hasn't yet had one. Make sure to take a good look at the tracks, bogies, final drives, hydraulic quick connect, make sure there is full joystick response in the hydraulic functions, no leaks, electrical issues and track adjusters along with the undercarriage, This CAT model should be full steel and good to go unlike it's ASV counterpart which is full of plastic... and nightmares!. Not sure what you might get into with the machine, but try and avoid zero turning and clean out the tracks good before you put her away or fire up for the day. Most of the issues found on these track type machines are a cause of the undercarriage being packed with dirt and rocks forcing them through your bogies and idlers, not good!. If you make sure this machine is serviced when needed, and follow the above advice regarding the track system you'll be extremely happy... Not taking the time to care for the track system will possibly have you paying out the nose in parts!. Definitely get the VIN's checked out, I'd hate to see someone get screwed over with a stolen machine etc... aside from that I see there's a CAT mechanic here, definitely the Go-To guy regarding service, questions etc!.

 

[nolimits76]

How well do you know your business acquaintance? And is that guy "vouching" for the seller?

By the way, all great points. Maintenance can be a killer and may be the reason he is offering a reduced sale price. Definitely have it checked over by a qualified dealer.

Also, a good idea to lay YOUR eyes on the VIN and verify against police records to ensure it's not stolen. We had some equipment stolen a few years back, but luckily after filing a report we got it back within a week or two later. Most the time, stolen equipment goes across the border to Mexico.

When you look the machine over and get the VIN number, start a conversation about where the guy bought the machine, who did the financing, etc. After he divulges some info, be honest and let him know you'd like to meet at said dealer/bank to get a written lien release.

A few years back, I was selling a car and did something similar for the buyer. We met at the bank and he issued a cashiers check directly to my bank. The bank issued a lien release on the spot, and cut me a check back for the difference owed vs sold amount. Only painful part was we started at a "satellite branch" but had to go to the main branch where they kept the original paper work since the buyer wanted it on the spot.

 

[crf731]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info guys.

I went and looked at this thing yesterday, took a photo of the serial number plate while there and gave the number to the police to see if they could check and see if it was stolen before I purchased it.

It came back as being stolen.

 

[n8n]

D'oh. Well sorry you had your time wasted but glad you didn't end up inadvertantly walking into a mess.

 

[rburke65]

Wow....good for you. That's no way to start the new year buying that!

 

[HoosierMark]

Sounds to me like you did a good deed. I am sure the police went and got it and now the place it was stolen from will get it back. You helped someone else out without trying to. Good for you.

 

[TonkaJoe]

Glad to see you didn't get taken for a ride there!. Bit of a disappointment for sure, but at least now you know what to keep your eyes open for..

 

[CNGsaves]

Wow, your sniffer was dead on . . . . .Didn't pass the Smell Test.

Good thing you've got Street Smarts !! No money lost.

 

[justin1795]

Any ideal what the police did next? A guy I know has a mini he bought from a friend. It was stolen and the guy purchased a new one. About 3 years later he got a call they found the old one trashed. Friend ended up buying it.

 

[mark883]

Unless things have changed since I bought my bobcat, there are no titles on machinery like that. So if there is a loan on it, he could sell it with a bill of sale. BUT, he or his business is still responsible for paying the amount due.

He could be trying to beat the bill collectors before going bankrupt?

Ha, responsible?!

He sells it to you with a bill of sale, he doesn't pay the finance company, the finance company comes and gets their machine, you're out your money, and you can wipe your... with the bill of sale. Or write a check to the finance company for the balanced owed. What if he financed the machine in Arkansas?

Doing a lien search can be rather impossible, depending on the honesty of the seller, because you essentially do it on his name or business identity name, not the machine / serial number. So, under what name was the machine financed? Debtor name searches on the UCC database are not very 'fuzzy' The Cat dealer should be able to tell you if Cat finance has financed the machine.

What's really fun is when guys rent machines then sell them to some sucker.

BTW, Cat crawler skidloaders are not universally loved. Price a track or idler wheels. Skidloader tires are about $150 each.

And, if stolen... you get 'splain yourself to the cops. Better have someone to point to. Skidloaders have a nasty habit of wandering off in the middle of the night. Our podunk town had one hitch a ride and jump on a trailer the day or so before Christmas. Bye Bye new $75k skidloader.

 

[PAToyota]

Coming from an Operator with numerous years of experience on these and many other machines, CAT makes a really nice skid steer, and this is definitely a good piece of iron. At 250 hours it's already due for a service..

At 250 hours, you’re talking two or three months of operation. Yes, there is daily/weekly/monthly service, but if you’re saying “overhaul” that thing must have been abused.

Not surprised that it came back questionable. As I say, a couple months of operation and he’s willing to take half price? I know that depreciation hits you the moment you take anything off the dealer’s lot, but that’s ridiculous.

I’d be wary of your “business acquaintance” too after this.

 

[crf731]

Any ideal what the police did next? A guy I know has a mini he bought from a friend. It was stolen and the guy purchased a new one. About 3 years later he got a call they found the old one trashed. Friend ended up buying it.

The police called me a couple of times wanting to know more info about the person that showed it to me, how I knew him, how to get in contact with him, and where the machine was.

They went and picked it up the next day. I assume they returned it to the company that owned it.

The machine he showed me was also not the the one he sent me a photo of that I posted earlier, it was a different model and had about 6 times as many hours on it.

 

[Cobra5150]

Glad you didn't get taken and it again proves if it's too good to be real, it probably isn't. Hope Karma made a full circle with that guy.

 

[ZRX61]

Talking of the smell test....

 

[rustyjames]

Cat parts are about the easiest to get, that's why people buy them.

 

[finn]

If there is a lien, there should be a UCC filed with the TX Secretary of State. Looks like it costs a dollar to do a search.

Hope this helps

Talking to my Credit Union a couple of years ago, it seems tha Michigan, and most other states have a similar registry. Sounds like it may be a system run by private lenders, where they register any liens they may have against equipment.

The s/n is effectively flagged until the owner pays off the loan.

Your credit union or other financial institution should be able to run a s/n.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Talking of the smell test....

Yep, 6 year old thread by a now banned spammer.